Dark Dive: Difference between revisions
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Ganondorf can still grab opponents with his Dark Dive, but if the move does not connect until the end of the animation, Ganondorf does an uppercut that knocks the opponent away with darkness damage, being slightly stronger but less damaging than the move's grab and throw. In addition, Ganondorf can now grab opponents hanging onto the ledge, which often stage spikes them, but they are still capable of teching. It also has [[launch resistance]] mid-grab. The move is also capable of destroying targets in [[Target Smash!!]] when his body comes in contact with the target. It also has a different animation where Ganondorf rises upward and spins and no longer spins forward during the ending's descent. | Ganondorf can still grab opponents with his Dark Dive, but if the move does not connect until the end of the animation, Ganondorf does an uppercut that knocks the opponent away with darkness damage, being slightly stronger but less damaging than the move's grab and throw. In addition, Ganondorf can now grab opponents hanging onto the ledge, which often stage spikes them, but they are still capable of teching. It also has [[launch resistance]] mid-grab. The move is also capable of destroying targets in [[Target Smash!!]] when his body comes in contact with the target. It also has a different animation where Ganondorf rises upward and spins and no longer spins forward during the ending's descent. | ||
Knockback-wise, Dark Dive was overwhelmingly nerfed, dealing a lot less damage, and can no longer KO at realistic damages outside of stage spikes, only KOing at 300% with the grab and 200% with the uppercut; despite Ganondorf generally being more powerful than Captain Falcon, Falcon Dive has much stronger damage and knockback in ''Brawl'' despite it also being nerfed, KOing at 200% instead. This extremely poor knockback combined with the new mechanic of being able to act out of [[hitstun]] much sooner allows opponents with low damage percentages and fast aerials to immediately hit Ganondorf once they are released from the grab, which can cause [[gimp]]s and overall makes the move completely unsafe to use. In addition its crippled damage, the move has slightly more difficulty in turning around, slightly more start-up, and slightly less reach on its furthest grabbox. Since it sees no real use in combat and is considered the worst recovery move, Dark Dive is | Knockback-wise, Dark Dive was overwhelmingly nerfed, dealing a lot less damage, and can no longer KO at realistic damages outside of stage spikes, only KOing at 300% with the grab and 200% with the uppercut; despite Ganondorf generally being more powerful than Captain Falcon, Falcon Dive has much stronger damage and knockback in ''Brawl'' despite it also being nerfed, KOing at 200% instead. This extremely poor knockback combined with the new mechanic of being able to act out of [[hitstun]] much sooner allows opponents with low damage percentages and fast aerials to immediately hit Ganondorf once they are released from the grab, which can cause [[gimp]]s and overall makes the move completely unsafe to use. In addition its crippled damage, the move has slightly more difficulty in turning around, slightly more start-up, and slightly less reach on its furthest grabbox. Since it sees no real use in combat and is considered the worst recovery move, Dark Dive is commonly seen as the worst move in the game. | ||
In [[The Subspace Emissary]], Ganondorf attacks [[Tabuu]] with his Dark Dive after he finds out Tabuu is controlling {{SSBB|Master Hand}} with his Chains of Light. The distance Ganon travels with Dark Dive seems to be highly exaggerated. Even before he hits Tabuu, he gets hit by a counterattack, turning him into a trophy. | In [[The Subspace Emissary]], Ganondorf attacks [[Tabuu]] with his Dark Dive after he finds out Tabuu is controlling {{SSBB|Master Hand}} with his Chains of Light. The distance Ganon travels with Dark Dive seems to be highly exaggerated. Even before he hits Tabuu, he gets hit by a counterattack, turning him into a trophy. | ||
Revision as of 18:27, September 29, 2015
| Dark Dive | |
|---|---|
 Ganondorf uses Dark Dive on Link. | |
| User | Ganondorf |
| Universe | The Legend of Zelda |
| “ | Jump up and grab opponents, and then launch them. | ” |
| —Super Smash Bros. for Wii U's Quick Guide | ||
Dark Dive (雷神掌, Raijin Palm) is the up special move used by Ganondorf, introduced in Super Smash Bros. Melee. It's similar in function to Captain Falcon's Falcon Dive, but instead of the opponent getting hurt by fire, they will be shocked by electricity if Ganondorf connects with them. Like his side special, Flame Choke, it counts as a grab, so it cannot be shielded or countered. Like the Falcon Dive, it can be used repeatedly if successful, and Ganondorf can grab a ledge at the peak height of this move when facing the other direction. This helps to sweet spot and to keep Mario players from caping. Due to its predictability, poor distance, lack of protection and surprisingly low power in games following Melee, the move has often been cited as one of the worst recoveries in the game.
Appearances
Super Smash Bros. Melee
The move itself is essentially a clone move of Falcon Dive, except that there are electric effects. He rises up, catching opponents that are above him, zaps them, and then knocks the opponent away with an explosion, and can use this move again after if it is successful. Also, as with most moves Ganondorf has compared to Falcon, the move is stronger than Falcon Dive, and is easier to KO foes with (though Falcon Dive is still strong by itself). It is interesting to note that, unlike Falcon Dive, Dark Dive can harm other characters (in addition to the victim Ganon has latched on to) via the electrical hitboxes, making it harder for an opponent to hit Ganondorf out of this move. Unfortunately, it cannot grab, or even affect foes on a ledge, making this move extremely easy to edge-guard and edgehog.
Using Dark Dive on an opponent below stage level will often stage spike them. While this can punish a failed edge-guard, the opponent can also tech the spike, and then strike back as they can move before Ganondorf can.
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Ganondorf can still grab opponents with his Dark Dive, but if the move does not connect until the end of the animation, Ganondorf does an uppercut that knocks the opponent away with darkness damage, being slightly stronger but less damaging than the move's grab and throw. In addition, Ganondorf can now grab opponents hanging onto the ledge, which often stage spikes them, but they are still capable of teching. It also has launch resistance mid-grab. The move is also capable of destroying targets in Target Smash!! when his body comes in contact with the target. It also has a different animation where Ganondorf rises upward and spins and no longer spins forward during the ending's descent.
Knockback-wise, Dark Dive was overwhelmingly nerfed, dealing a lot less damage, and can no longer KO at realistic damages outside of stage spikes, only KOing at 300% with the grab and 200% with the uppercut; despite Ganondorf generally being more powerful than Captain Falcon, Falcon Dive has much stronger damage and knockback in Brawl despite it also being nerfed, KOing at 200% instead. This extremely poor knockback combined with the new mechanic of being able to act out of hitstun much sooner allows opponents with low damage percentages and fast aerials to immediately hit Ganondorf once they are released from the grab, which can cause gimps and overall makes the move completely unsafe to use. In addition its crippled damage, the move has slightly more difficulty in turning around, slightly more start-up, and slightly less reach on its furthest grabbox. Since it sees no real use in combat and is considered the worst recovery move, Dark Dive is commonly seen as the worst move in the game.
In The Subspace Emissary, Ganondorf attacks Tabuu with his Dark Dive after he finds out Tabuu is controlling Master Hand with his Chains of Light. The distance Ganon travels with Dark Dive seems to be highly exaggerated. Even before he hits Tabuu, he gets hit by a counterattack, turning him into a trophy.
Super Smash Bros. 4
Dark Dive was nerfed even further due to the removal of the mid-grab's launch resistance, making it much easier to intercept and edge-guard. However, due to the removal of Brawl's mechanic of fast acting out of hitstun when knocked short distances, the grabbed opponent can no longer attack him once he releases them. Ganondorf now aesthetically grabs the opponent with one hand instead of two. Its extremely weak power remains completely unchanged, and is still cited to be the worst default special move in the game.
Customization
Special Move customization was added in Super Smash Bros. 4. These are the known variations:
| 1. Dark Dive | 2. Dark Fists | 3. Dark Vault |
|---|---|---|
 |
 |
 |
| "Jump up and grab an enemy,and then shock and launch them." | "Punch opponents into the air, and then hit them in midair to send them higher." | "Jump extra high, but you can only grab at the beginning or end of the attack." |
- Dark Dive: Default.
- Dark Fists: Instead of grabbing the enemy, Ganondorf throws two uppercuts. The first, dealing 6% damage, is thrown before the jump, and has set knockback. If it connects it will usually chain victims into the second hit, dealing 11% damage for a total of 17% damage, which is thrown at the apex of the jump and has formidable damage and knockback, able to KO at ~110%. It is generally considered overwhelmingly superior to Dark Dive and Dark Vault due to having legitimate offensive use, improved distance thanks its somewhat slow start-up allowing for better horizontal reach, and the start-up also possessing super armor which helps negate edge-guarding and can even be used as a pseudo-counter. However, the lack of a grab means that the move cannot be used in rapid succession should it hit an opponent.
- Dark Vault: Vaults upward twice, giving it more height, but can only grab during the beginning of either vault, and has no ending uppercut. This bonus height, however, is only slightly higher than Dark Dive/Fists. Has less horizontal distance, the electrocution ends faster but deals drastically less damage (1% electrocution, 3% throw, 4% total), and the explosion has less knockback power that KOs at 400% instead. There also is some lag between the two vaults, making it much easier to edge-guard. Arguably considered one of the worst moves in the game due to its slew of flaws while offering a very negligible advantage over Dark Dive/Fists.
Differences with Falcon Dive
- Electrocutes the grabbed opponent before producing an explosion, whereas Falcon Dive just grabs and explodes.
- Has the electric effect, but lacks the flame effect despite the explosion.
- Deals 17% total damage in Melee, 2% higher than Falcon Dive.
- Deals 11% total damage in Brawl and Smash 4, 6% less than Falcon Dive.
- Stronger knockback in Melee than Falcon Dive, but much weaker in Brawl and Smash 4.
- In Brawl, many characters can hit Ganondorf after release at mid percents or higher due to its drastically weaker knockback and hitstun changes.
- Dark Dive travels slower and has less vertical height and slower horizontal movement than Falcon Dive, but falls slower after using it.
- Except in Melee, Dark Dive hits with an uppercut that deals 7% damage with darkness if he doesn't grab the opponent earlier in the move, whereas Falcon Dive lacks such hitbox.
- Completely different custom movesets.
Trivia
- In Melee, victims don't visibly wince from this attack (except for Yoshi), though in Brawl, they squint in pain. This also seems to be the case for Captain Falcon's Falcon Dive.
- In Melee, the multi-hit hitboxes of the move may fail to connect on characters of a significantly different size than Ganondorf, such as a tiny Kirby or a giant Wire Frame. As a result the move deals significantly less damage and ends faster.
- In Brawl, the grab box can not break a Smash Ball, along with Captain Falcon's Falcon Dive, though the uppercut can break them and the grab box can break targets in Target Smash!! and hit enemies and Bosses in the Subspace Emissary and in the Boss Battles.
