User talk:Scr7/Sandbox

Your Brawl recovery tier list

Normally I wouldn't comment on this stuff, but there are some glaring issues:

• Ivysaur shouldn't be anywhere above Olimar, Olimar is superior in about every recovery aspect. Olimar falls slower, has better air speed, has a higher midair jump, his tether can reach farther, his tether can also give him a slight jump instead of just reaching out with no distance, and he has Whistle for on demand super armor. Olimar's recovery may be poor overall, but his is completely superior to Ivysaur's.

• Ike's recovery ain't bottom tier. While the distance it gains is among the shortest, Aether provides among the best protection for any recovery move, and since the distance Ike gains is still adequate to recover in most situations, this immense recovery protection pushes him up to lower middle at worst.

• Why the hell do you have Peach so low? She shouldn't be anywhere below A, much less in the second lowest tier. Yes the height gained by her midair jump is ass, but this hardly matters when it'll pretty much never cost Peach a recovery, while her floating ability and Parasol make her among the hardest characters to edgeguard while ensuring she can pretty much recover from any blow.

• Wolf shouldn't be two whole tiers below Falco, when his recovery is better. For one thing, Wolf isn't dead in the water if he's forced to recover vertically. Additionally, while Falco Phantasm does provide pseudo-invincibility during the first third of the move, it doesn't get that extra vertical height Wolf Flash does, nor is it capable of scarring. Wolf also has really damn good air speed unlike Falco, so Wolf can often make it back with just his midair jump. Wolf overall has more options, and can gain greater distance.

• Lucario shouldn't be anywhere near the high tiers. Extreme Speed is a pretty poor recovery move, that provides Lucario no protection, and only gains average distance, while also being of only average speed (and it can do absolutely nothing to edge hoggers). While Lucario is floaty with above average air speed, he often has to use Extreme Speed anyway, which costs Lucario many early deaths (his recovery is probably his biggest issue in competitive play, and why MK is such a poor matchup for him).

• Toon Link's recovery, while good, shouldn't be anywhere near top. Many other recoveries beat it in distance, and many other beat it in protection. It's good, but it's not particularly difficult to edgeguard, and it's really possible to fatally edgeguard and gimp him. And Toon Link doesn't have a great amount of options to mix his recovery up to fool you. It's C tier at best.

• Marth shouldn't be anywhere below Falcon and Falco. The extra distance they get over Marth is marginal, while Marth's provides more protection, especially when compared to Falcon (Marth can also recover vertically well, while Falco is again dead in the water if he has to use Fire Bird).

• Sheik's is way too high. She has among the shortest distance recoveries while also falling fast with poor air speed. She additionally can't do much to edge hoggers. While Vanish provides great protection, Sheik is pretty much screwed if she has to recover from far out.

There are some other nickpicks, but these are the most glaring issues. Omega Tyrant 14:41, 27 June 2013 (EDT)

I felt like making my own version after I saw some other recovery tier list, I think it was a guy called Zeldasmash or something? But anyway, I wasn't expecting it to be very accurate, and I do agree with many of your points, so I will change it later, but here are some things. I agree that Ike may be too low, but semi-spikes are just so deadly for him. But yeah, Aether can meteor people off the ledge. I'll put him higher than Mario. Meteor smashes are quite lethal to Wolf because of that pointless 60-frame delay he gets. Lucario has a very good wall jump which helps on stages like YI, although it is almost useless on BF and SV. I put Toon Link high because of his floatiness and above average air speed helping, along with having a few options (he does have wall jump, zair, bomb recovery). Also, do you think Wario, Kirby, and Pit should be higher or lower? Scr7 15:20, 27 June 2013 (EDT)

Semi-spikes are deadly to Ike, but they're deadly to many other characters you have above him, and again, good luck hitting him with anything through Aether, especially with a good semi-spike. Yes meteor smashes will be nearly always fatal to Wolf if they produce knockback, but how often are you actually hitting him with meteor smashes during edgeguarding that won't kill others but will kill him for this to matter? Besides many characters lacking a decent meteor smash, it's pretty difficult to land meteor smashes in high levels of play. I comain Wolf and Dedede, and the amount of meteor smashes I died to as Wolf when recovering that I would of survived as Dedede (one of the most meteor resistant characters) I can count on one hand. As such, the 60 frame meteor cancelling thing is pretty much negligible for Wolf when it comes to recovering.

With Lucario, more often than not you don't have a wall to use. And even then, wall jumping mainly just helps a bit with edge-hoggers and gives an additional option, while still not doing much to give him protection when recovering. This might push him to high up in low tier, it certainly doesn't bump him to the high tiers.

Toon Link doesn't have that many options, and quite simply, while his recovery is good, it's about moderate to edgeguard, and many otherss' are better. Also bomb jumping does shit in Brawl, and his tether is pretty short reached, as well as beaten by a timely edge hog. Wall jump hardly helps, and Toon Link's isn't amazing like Lucario's.

For your question, Wario should be in the A tier. Corkscrew is crap, but his air speed and Bike is so good that he'll almost never need to use Corkscrew. And in the event you have to use Corkscrew, you can use Waft instead.

Kirby is about alright where he is, though he shouldn't be above Sonic.

Pit is also about right where he is, though Toon Link shouldn't be anywhere near above him. Omega Tyrant 15:56, 27 June 2013 (EDT)

I also have no idea whether Lucas is too high or too low, what do you think. Scr7 16:24, 27 June 2013 (EDT)

A bit late on this, but Lucas should be much higher; he has a plethora of recovery options (midair jump, Zap jump, Magnet pull, tether, and PK Thunder 2), which allows him to gain great distance while being difficult to edge-guard.

Also, you still have Lucario way too high (just look at when you fought my Lucario with MK; even when I had wall jumping available, look how helpless I was when you came after me).

Additionally, you have Donkey Kong and Yoshi way too low (the former can recover from about any relevant horizontal distance, while his recovery grants great protection, and the latter can cover great horizontal distance, while being fairly capable at fending off edge-guarders). Also, Zelda is way too high and should be bottom tier (she has Wolf's problem with Fire Wolf, except with a slower recovery and having access to no alternate recovery move or the jumping/air speed to make it back without her recovery move), Peach should be above Kirby/Snake/Dedede, and Sonic should be A tier. Omega Tyrant 12:36, 7 July 2013 (EDT)

Updated.

Snake is lower than Dedede because of how easy it is to attack him out of Cypher, and if he needs to C4 bomb jump a lot, he will increase his own damage quite a bit.

I still don't think Lucario should be in the low tiers, but one spot above. Mainly because of his above average aerial maneuverability. Squirtle is slightly higher for the same reason.

As a side note, I can say that DK's recovery is actually quite similar to Falco's - they can gain crazy horizontal distance but have trouble recovering vertically.

Scr7 13:11, 7 July 2013 (EDT)

Lucario should still be low, his air speed/jumping prowess isn't good enough to get him back to the stage without using Extreme Speed, and I'll again point to the Lucario/MK match we had, where I couldn't do much to fend you off with Lucario when recovering. Same for Squirtle.

DK should actually be higher than Wolf and Falco; he gains greater horizontal distance than both, and he isn't as vulnerable to gimping as they are.

Also, Charizard and Toon Link should be bumped down to D (Charizard has similar issues to Snake and Dedede, but can't keep coming back like they can, and as explained before Toon Link's recovery is merely just good), while Lucas and Zamus are placed above Samus in C. Omega Tyrant 13:35, 7 July 2013 (EDT)

Are you referring to the match on Frigate where, second stock, I hit you out of ExtremeSpeed, then when you wall clinged, I footstool'd you? If so, that was a pretty close match. Scr7 13:46, 7 July 2013 (EDT)

Yes, and I lost the first stock too because of Lucario's recovery leaving him helpless against an edge-guarding MK. I ended up winning because I made a concentrated effort to stay in the center and managed to avoid going offstage on the last stock. Also, Samus should be below Zamus and Lucas (she doesn't have the plethora of recovery options they have). Omega Tyrant 06:46, 8 July 2013 (EDT)

Best mains for each Brawl character

Discuss. Scr7 11:52, 7 July 2013 (EDT)

You could probably put me for everyone :p Omega Tyrant 12:28, 7 July 2013 (EDT)

Yeah but I only meant what characters they actually main, Scr7 12:29, 7 July 2013 (EDT)

Honestly, this list doesn't have much room to be interesting, as the active playerbase on the wiki is too small, and there's little main overlap to make getting a spot real competition rather than it being just a list of each player on the Wiki (Kirby is probably the only character that there's multiple mains of on the wiki that actively play). Omega Tyrant 12:47, 7 July 2013 (EDT)

Really just an idea I had. We already have things like Smash Wiki Power Rankings so i thought, why not. Is it worth making anyway? Scr7 13:13, 7 July 2013 (EDT)

You shouldn't restrict it to just mains then, as it would otherwise just end up a list of which Wiki user mains which character(s). Sure, go ahead though and restrict the characters I'm listed on to the ones I use with regularity. Omega Tyrant 13:35, 7 July 2013 (EDT)

Make it characters which people use regularly then, i.e. include secondaries Scr7 13:40, 7 July 2013 (EDT)

I don't think you need to encourage discussion for who wins each character, just pick them yourself, they're easy enough to find. At least fill in the obvious ones (i.e. Wolf for Omega Tyrant, Donkey Kong for Shaun's Wiji Dodo, Toon Link I should hope for ToastUltimatum) Toast ltimatum 20:34, 7 July 2013 (EDT)

Could you add me for Zero Suit Samus? I battled Peach & Zelda with Zero Suit Samus, and defeated them without taking a single hit! I was planing to upload a video to YouTube, but I have slow connection. --egadardery (edits) 12:59, 25 August 2013 (EDT)