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Stale-move negation: Difference between revisions
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[[File:Ssb4stale.gif|thumb|350px| | [[File:Ssb4stale.gif|thumb|350px|{{Sm|vyQ}} playing as {{SSB4|Fox}} makes repeated use of his [[back aerial]], demonstrating the effect of stale-move negation.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wis_25jQeew]</ref>]] | ||
'''Stale-move negation''' ({{ja|ワンパターン相殺|Wanpatān sōsai}}, ''One-pattern offsetting''), known as '''Repetition Effect''' in ''[[Super Smash Bros. 4]]'' and '''Stale Moves''' in ''[[Ultimate]]'', is a mechanic and a gameplay element in all games in the ''{{b|Super Smash Bros.|series}}'' series. It refers to how moves cause less [[damage]] and [[knockback]] as they are used multiple times in a row. The strength of a move increases back to its regular power as other moves are used. Starting in ''Melee'', being [[KO]]'d resets the staleness of all of that player's moves. Moves not yet affected by stale-move negation are referred to as '''fresh'''. | '''Stale-move negation''' ({{ja|ワンパターン相殺|Wanpatān sōsai}}, ''One-pattern offsetting''), known as '''Repetition Effect''' in ''[[Super Smash Bros. 4]]'' and '''Stale Moves''' in ''[[Super Smash Bros. Ultimate]]'', is a mechanic and a gameplay element in all games in the ''{{b|Super Smash Bros.|series}}'' series. It refers to how moves cause less [[damage]] and [[knockback]] as they are used multiple times in a row. The strength of a move increases back to its regular power as other moves are used. Starting in ''Melee'', being [[KO]]'d resets the staleness of all of that player's moves. Moves not yet affected by stale-move negation are referred to as '''fresh'''. | ||
Moves are only affected by stale-move negation if they connect with an opponent or other object that can take damage, such as a [[crate]]. They also do not stale if they hit a [[shield]], except in '' | Moves are only affected by stale-move negation if they connect with an opponent or other object that can take damage, such as a [[crate]]. They also do not stale if they hit a [[shield]], except in ''Ultimate''. | ||
The purpose of stale-move negation is to discourage players from using the same attack repeatedly or over-frequently, and encourage the utilization of a character's entire moveset. However, each game in the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series handles stale-move negation differently, albeit significantly more so from the original game to ''Melee''. | The purpose of stale-move negation is to discourage players from using the same attack repeatedly or over-frequently, and encourage the utilization of a character's entire moveset. However, each game in the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series handles stale-move negation differently, albeit significantly more so from the original game to ''Melee''. | ||
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{|class="wikitable" | {|class="wikitable" | ||
!Stale!!Level 1!!Level 2!!Level 3!!Fresh | !Stale!!Level 1!!Level 2!!Level 3!!Fresh | ||
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{|class="wikitable" | {|class="wikitable" | ||
!Queue position /<br>Reduction factor!!1!!2!!3!!4!!5!!6!!7!!8!!9!! !!Fresh!!All slots<br>in total | !Queue position /<br>Reduction factor!!1!!2!!3!!4!!5!!6!!7!!8!!9!! !!Fresh!!All slots<br>in total | ||
|- | |- | ||
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As an example, if a move is in positions 1, 2, and 6 in the queue - it has been used two times in a row, and another time as the sixth-most recent move. This corresponds to adding the reductors of each position together for a total reduction. Therefore, if the move is used once more (and hits) without anything changing, it will deal a damage reduced by the amount shown below: | As an example, if a move is in positions 1, 2, and 6 in the queue - it has been used two times in a row, and another time as the sixth-most recent move. This corresponds to adding the reductors of each position together for a total reduction. Therefore, if the move is used once more (and hits) without anything changing, it will deal a damage reduced by the amount shown below: | ||
*''Melee'': 0.09 + 0.08 + 0.04 = 0.21, the total damage is 79% of the base amount. | |||
''Melee | *''Brawl'': 0.1 + 0.09 + 0.05 = 0.24, the total damage is 76% of the base amount. | ||
''Brawl | *''SSB4'': 0.08 + 0.07594 + 0.04462 = 0.20056, the total damage is 79.944% of the base amount. | ||
''SSB4 | *''Ultimate'': 0.09 + 0.08545 + 0.05035 = 0.2258, the total damage is 77.42% of the base amount. | ||
''Ultimate | |||
===Specifics in ''Melee''=== | ===Specifics in ''Melee''=== | ||
The calculation of knockback in ''Melee'' partly ignores a move's staleness for non-projectiles. Since the knockback formula bases the knockback a player suffers on the post-damage of an attack, there is still a decrease in knockback as a move is staled, though it is extremely minimal. Typically a move will require around the same post-damage to KO regardless of its staleness value, so the additional damage needed to KO with a stale move will be around the damage dealt lost to stale-move negation (for example, a fully-staled [[Fox (SSBM)/Up smash|Fox up smash]] will deal 9.9% damage, so it will require about 8.1% more damage than a fresh up smash to KO). | The calculation of knockback in ''Melee'' partly ignores a move's staleness for non-projectiles. Since the knockback formula bases the knockback a player suffers on the post-damage of an attack, there is still a decrease in knockback as a move is staled, though it is extremely minimal. Typically a move will require around the same post-damage to KO regardless of its staleness value, so the additional damage needed to KO with a stale move will be around the damage dealt lost to stale-move negation (for example, a fully-staled [[Fox (SSBM)/Up smash|Fox up smash]] will deal 9.9% damage, so it will require about 8.1% more damage than a fresh up smash to KO). | ||
Hitting non-character targets, such as Shy Guys on [[Yoshi's Story]], doesn't affect staleness. | Hitting non-character targets, such as Shy Guys on [[Yoshi's Story]], doesn't affect staleness. | ||
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The freshness bonus from ''Brawl'' is retained, and damage calculation is altered to the point where a fully staled move will deal 0.5294x of its original damage, being higher than in ''Brawl'' but lower than in ''Melee''. In addition, the knockback formula reduces the sum of reduction factors and freshness bonus to 0.3x of its calculated value when taking in the damage dealt, meaning that staleness is 70% less of a factor on knockback dealt. As a result, the damage dealt by KO moves will easily override the knockback loss to staleness outside of extreme cases, especially when taking the [[rage]] effect into consideration, and like in ''Melee'', players do not need to actively concern themselves with preserving the usage of KO moves. This change also prevents the exploitation of staleness to chain a single low-knockback move well beyond normal. | The freshness bonus from ''Brawl'' is retained, and damage calculation is altered to the point where a fully staled move will deal 0.5294x of its original damage, being higher than in ''Brawl'' but lower than in ''Melee''. In addition, the knockback formula reduces the sum of reduction factors and freshness bonus to 0.3x of its calculated value when taking in the damage dealt, meaning that staleness is 70% less of a factor on knockback dealt. As a result, the damage dealt by KO moves will easily override the knockback loss to staleness outside of extreme cases, especially when taking the [[rage]] effect into consideration, and like in ''Melee'', players do not need to actively concern themselves with preserving the usage of KO moves. This change also prevents the exploitation of staleness to chain a single low-knockback move well beyond normal. | ||
In addition, staling one item will not affect another of the same item, and only the item that was actually used. This includes character-produced items such as Link's | In addition, staling one item will not affect another of the same item, and only the item that was actually used. This includes character-produced items such as Link's {{b|Bomb|Link}}s and Mega Man's [[Metal Blade]], and as such single use items are essentially immune to staling, and since the usage of them will still enter the queue if they hit, characters that can produce items can effectively refresh their queue without having to stale other moves, when they hit another character or damageable stage element with their item. | ||
Like in ''Brawl'', both the stale-move negation and the freshness bonus do not apply in any single-player mode outside of the [[Home-Run Contest]]. | Like in ''Brawl'', both the stale-move negation and the freshness bonus do not apply in any single-player mode outside of the [[Home-Run Contest]]. | ||
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The much more severe stale-move negation in ''Brawl'' has had a mixed reception among the competitive fanbase. Those who support the severe stale-move negation argue that it adds more strategy and depth to the game, giving importance to "saving finishers" until the opponent is in the KO range, while rewarding those who plan the use of their attacks appropriately, and punishing those who rely on their KO attacks to rack up damage. Detractors argue that it allows some attacks to [[combo]] into themselves much more effectively than they should, resulting in them being [[broken|overly powerful]] damage rackers at low percents. This has been the primary cause of some [[counter (matchup)|hard counter matchups]], with the most notorious examples of such attacks being {{SSBB|Pikachu}}'s [[down throw]] and {{SSBB|Sheik}}'s [[forward tilt]]. Furthermore, the severe stale-move negation is sometimes argued to unfairly punish characters with fewer reliable KO options, such as {{SSBB|Samus}} and {{SSBB|R.O.B.}}, as their most powerful moves will generally be used too often to allow them to use them as KO options. | The much more severe stale-move negation in ''Brawl'' has had a mixed reception among the competitive fanbase. Those who support the severe stale-move negation argue that it adds more strategy and depth to the game, giving importance to "saving finishers" until the opponent is in the KO range, while rewarding those who plan the use of their attacks appropriately, and punishing those who rely on their KO attacks to rack up damage. Detractors argue that it allows some attacks to [[combo]] into themselves much more effectively than they should, resulting in them being [[broken|overly powerful]] damage rackers at low percents. This has been the primary cause of some [[counter (matchup)|hard counter matchups]], with the most notorious examples of such attacks being {{SSBB|Pikachu}}'s [[down throw]] and {{SSBB|Sheik}}'s [[forward tilt]]. Furthermore, the severe stale-move negation is sometimes argued to unfairly punish characters with fewer reliable KO options, such as {{SSBB|Samus}} and {{SSBB|R.O.B.}}, as their most powerful moves will generally be used too often to allow them to use them as KO options. | ||
Some [[mod]]s of ''Brawl'' alter stale-move negation, with the developers often having similar sentiments as opponents of ''Brawl' | Some [[mod]]s of ''Brawl'' alter stale-move negation, with the developers often having similar sentiments as opponents of ''Brawl''{{'}}s native stale-move negation. Some reduce its powers to varying degrees, while others remove it altogether. | ||
As covered prior, ''Smash 4'' drastically lessens the impact staleness has on knockback; it is now generally considered a non-factor and is thus no longer a centre of controversy. | As covered prior, ''Smash 4'' drastically lessens the impact staleness has on knockback; it is now generally considered a non-factor and is thus no longer a centre of controversy. | ||
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*[[Grab aerial]]s prior to ''Smash 4'', including the [[Hookshot]], Clawshot and [[Grapple Beam]]. | *[[Grab aerial]]s prior to ''Smash 4'', including the [[Hookshot]], Clawshot and [[Grapple Beam]]. | ||
*Grab releases, such as that of [[Donkey Kong]]'s [[ | *Grab releases, such as that of [[Donkey Kong]]'s [[cargo throw]]. | ||
*[[Taunt]]s excluding [[Kazuya]] | *[[Taunt]]s excluding [[Kazuya]]'s side taunt, Demon's Wrath. | ||
*Landing hitboxes in ''Brawl'' | *Landing hitboxes in ''Brawl''. | ||
*[[Item]]s in ''Smash 4'' (though unlike the other examples here, they enter the queue and thus can be used to refresh other moves). | *[[Item]]s in ''Smash 4'' (though unlike the other examples here, they enter the queue and thus can be used to refresh other moves). | ||
*[[Recoil damage]]. | *[[Recoil damage]]. | ||
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In ''Brawl'' onward, stale-move negation does not apply to any single-player mode outside of the [[Home-Run Contest]] (except ''Ultimate''{{'}}s [[Training Mode]], if Stale Moves is turned on). It additionally does not apply in the [[Online Practice Stage]], and the testing mode in [[customization]]. In the single-player and practice area cases, the freshness bonus is also ignored, so attacks always do their base damage. | In ''Brawl'' onward, stale-move negation does not apply to any single-player mode outside of the [[Home-Run Contest]] (except ''Ultimate''{{'}}s [[Training Mode]], if Stale Moves is turned on). It additionally does not apply in the [[Online Practice Stage]], and the testing mode in [[customization]]. In the single-player and practice area cases, the freshness bonus is also ignored, so attacks always do their base damage. | ||
==References== | |||
{{Reflist}} | |||
==External links== | ==External links== | ||
* [http://www.smashbros.com/wii/en_us/howto/technique/technique10.html Dojo page] | *[http://www.smashbros.com/wii/en_us/howto/technique/technique10.html Dojo page] | ||
* [http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=302275 SmashBoards post containing Melee's stale move reductors] | *[http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=302275 SmashBoards post containing Melee's stale move reductors] | ||
* [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FgOsGYfTD4nQo4jFGJ22nz5baU1xihT5lreNinY5nNQ/edit?usp=sharing A spreadsheet of datamined values in Smash 4, containing its stale move reductors] | *[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FgOsGYfTD4nQo4jFGJ22nz5baU1xihT5lreNinY5nNQ/edit?usp=sharing A spreadsheet of datamined values in Smash 4, containing its stale move reductors] | ||
[[Category:Game physics]] | [[Category:Game physics]] | ||
[[Category:Hitboxes]] | [[Category:Hitboxes]] | ||