Talk:Alternate costume (SSB4)

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Mii Fighter Costumes

I'm proposing that we make an entirely separate page for the Mii Fighter Alternate Costumes and leave a redirect here. My reasoning is:

• It would make this page more consistent as a whole.
• We could show different color variations variants without extending this page.
• We could showcase male/female variants with larger pictures where one can actually see the difference.
• We could list the official costume descriptions in the DLC shop and further elaborate on the basis for vanilla game costumes.

Thoughts? AmoongussForLife Talk 09:59, 6 July 2018 (EDT)

Support. The Mii Fighters already take up more space than any other characters do, and I think it would be important to show gender/color, and larger picture would make it much easier to view, especially for nearsighted people (like me). 72.133.91.93 11:17, 30 July 2018 (EDT)Blueflame105

Support Awesomelink234, the Super Cool Sonic Fan Leave a message if needed 11:43, 30 July 2018 (EDT)

Support George Jones 22:07, 6 August 2018 (EDT)

Support. TheNuttyOne 22:18, 6 August 2018 (EDT)

Support. VoqéoT 01:17, 7 August 2018 (EDT)

Support. Dakota 952 06:48, 7 August 2018 (EDT)

Support Dragonfirebreath25 (talk) 08:01, 7 August 2018 (EDT)

Support Nothing much else to say. Pokebub (talk) 03:02, 21 August 2018 (EDT)

Here's my proposed page: User:AmoongussForLife/Mii_Fighter_costumes_(SSB4). SerpentKing also said I should've gotten a consensus before uploading the QR codes, so if anyone wants to support/deny their inclusion, that'd be good too. AmoongussForLife Talk 12:55, 7 August 2018 (EDT)

I support including QR codes. I was initially going to oppose, but since they were officially released, then I don't see why we shouldn't keep them. Though maybe they'd look better if they were in a table like the costumes and also featured a headshot of the Mii they're supposed to create. Pokebub (talk) 03:03, 21 August 2018 (EDT)

Support splitting the page and incluing QR codes. RoyboyX Talk 18:43, 26 August 2018 (EDT)

Support WolfBloodSpam (talk) 23:01, 31 August 2018 (EDT)

I support this and the proposed page with QR codes. Make the split already! SuperFalconBros (talk) 19:26, 11 September 2018 (EDT)

I'll take that as a support. Let's do it! Dragonfirebreath25 (talk) 19:27, 11 September 2018 (EDT)

Support split. The Mii Fighter costumes really stretch the traditional meaning of an "alternate costume." John HUAH! 23:38, 19 September 2018 (EDT)

Shouldn't this have been done already? I'm pretty sure you've reached consensus (and no one has opposed it at all). I'm not exactly sure on that, I'd have to ask an administartor, but it's been this way for awhile and nothing's happening with it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.133.91.93 (talk • contribs) 15:21, 21 September 2018

I've created the page here based on User:AmoongussForLife's suggested page in reflection of the clear consensus here. – Emmett 12:36, 21 September 2018 (EDT)

Captain Falcon Alternate Costume Origins

Captain Falcon's green alt is based on Pico, and his Gold is based on Dr. Stewart. Is there any reason they aren't listed here? I can't edit them in myself. Link3710 (talk) 02:48, 12 October 2018 (EDT)

Hi, Link. This is a contested issue. Could you elaborate on why you think the green alt is Pico and the gold one is Dr. Stewart? Nintendo101 (talk) 19:20, 12 October 2018 (EDT)

Mario in Purple

I think this should be to be changed in:

Resembles an outfit which consists of "L" Emblem (Luigi) and the "W" Emblem (Wario) from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door and Waluigi.

Pokemon (talk) 08:11, 26 October 2018 (EDT)

Hi, Pokemon. The use of the colors have no definitive connection to A Thousand Year-Door. It doesn’t add to the article to mention it.Nintendo101 (talk) 14:26, 26 October 2018 (EDT)

1.) The Waluigi costume has no connection to Odyssey because it was just carried over from Smash 4

Odyssey wasnt mentioned in that edit.

2.) the details from A Thousand Year Door have nothing to do with Smash.)

They do because just like in ATYD, it changes Mario's colors to resemble Waluigi while still keeping the M on his hat. In Odyssey, the Waluigi cap had the upside down L, while ATYD changes the M to yellow. Which is also the only time (to my knowledge) that Mario wore Waluigi's colors in the Mario games. VoqéoT 14:37, 26 October 2018 (EDT)

The thing is that we know that at least two of Mario's costumes are explicitly based on two other moustached rivals of his: Foreman Spike and Wario. We have citations for it. It is more believable that the purple costume (which, again, was introduced in Smash 4, which predates Odyssry by several years) is just based on Waluigi. We have no reason to think otherwise. There is no implied connection to A Thousand-Year Door. It would have been unusual for the “M” on Mario’s cap to have changed for the purple costume because it is still an “M” on all the other ones (including the one based knowingly based on Wario), so using it as a reference for an explicit ATYD homage is unsubstantiated. What you suggest also does not seem to adhere to Occam's razor, a deductive principle in academic writing.Nintendo101 (talk) 15:46, 26 October 2018 (EDT)

I'm not trying to pick on you or anything like that, but what makes what you're suggesting more problematic is that:

1. This matter was already settled on the talk page for alternate costumes in SSB4, were it was agreed that a connection to ATYD was unsubstantiated. Nintendo101 (talk) 16:01, 26 October 2018 (EDT)
2. You brought up something you wanted changed in the talk page and implemented the changes before any discussion had taken place. I think we have rules or at least forms of conduct saying you shouldn't do that (but I could be wrong). Nintendo101 (talk) 16:01, 26 October 2018 (EDT)

It is more believable that the purple costume (which, again, was introduced in Smash 4, which predates Odyssry by several years) is just based on Waluigi. We have no reason to think otherwise.

1) I still don't know why Odyssey keeps getting brought up when nobody is making a case for it. 2) I gave you the reason to think otherwise: it's the only time where Mario wears the colors and retains the M. Mario's Wario colors come before ATYD, making Smash the first time Mario wears those colors. So the situation between the two is different (one came in ATYD first, the other SSB64).

It would have been unusual for the “M” on Mario’s cap to have changed for the purple costume because it is still an “M” on all the other ones (including the one based knowingly based on Wario),

Again, the situation between the colors are different, and MarioWiki even notes how the W Emblem colors resembles his yellow color in SSB64. Also, not to sound rude, that's your opinion that it would be strange.

What you suggest also does not seem to adhere to Occam's razor, a deductive principle in academic

Occam's Razor states that the hypothesis with the fewest assumptions is likely the correct one. I'm not making assumptions. It's an observation, not an assumption, that the purple costume resembles his ATYD appearance, which is also the only claim I made in that edit.

This matter was already settled on the talk page for alternate costumes in SSB4, were it was agreed that a connection to ATYD was unsubstantiated.

1) Consensus isn't set in stone as per SW:CONSENSUS: "Consensus on a given decision does not mean the decision is irreversible. If the feelings of the wiki's editors as a whole on a given decision change a reasonable amount of time after consensus has been reached, another discussion may be held to revert or modify the changes." 2) One person agreeing with you isn't consensus.

Lastly, I'm not the one who brought it up in the talk page, that was Pokemon, and typically consensus only really needs to be reached on things that change multiple pages or are controversial. VoqéoT 16:39, 26 October 2018 (EDT)

I apologize for the late response. I've had practicals and midterms to study for. The phrasing I used was poorly chosen: the changing of Mario's "M" to a "Γ" for this costume would not have been objectively "strange", but it would have broken that consistent element between Mario's costumes. I still think that is a valid argument. I should not have brought up Odyssey - I was mistakenly conflating this issue with another where other users have argued this SSB4-era costume is from Odyssey. You are right that an agreement between two people is not community-wide consensus, but no one tried to reinstate a connection to ATYD after a year, so I believed it was well received or at least justified. Ultimately, this is a small issue. I think it is superfluous knowledge and that - while a to ATYD is not impossible - it is unsubstantiated, but that's a subjective perspective. Do what you feel is best. Nintendo101 (talk) 16:17, 28 October 2018 (EDT)

Minor Shulk Error

In the Trunks section for Shulk, it mentions "his appearance with weapons unequipped" when it should say armor, changes in weapons didn't affect armor in Xenoblade Chronicles.Thecornerman (talk) 23:23, 27 November 2018 (EST)

Link to Jody Summer's original costume in Captain Falcon's section

The F-Zero wiki has changed their image from the one currently linked (which goes to an empty page) to this: http://mutecity.org/wiki/File:Jody_SummerX.png

Disagreements with Nintendo101

There are a number of issues I have with the page that I disagree with Nintendo101, and it appears that the talk page is going to be where this needs to be sorted out.

1. There are three titles in the Four Swords series, as defined on Zelda Wiki: Four Swords, Four Swords Adventures, and The Minish Cap. See the Zelda Wiki page (although currently the links on this page intending to lead there don't work). As such, it's best to just specify the two games; a list of two games is hardly excessive.
2. Dark Link has drastically different appearances in different games. Compare The Adventure of Link, Ocarina of Time, A Link to the Past, and Spirit Tracks. The costume is specifically based on the OoT design, and that should be stated.
3. Donkey Kong Jr. has a plain white shirt in Donkey Kong Jr. Math, just like in Donkey Kong Jr. (since the artwork of Donkey Kong Jr. in Donkey Kong Jr. Math is only a very slight modification of the Donkey Kong Jr. cover anyway). Diddy Kong's 8th costume is ice blue. Donkey Kong Jr.'s shirt has red lettering, the primary symbol on Diddy Kong's shirt in that costume is orange. Their clothing looks nothing alike.
4. The note at the top of Lucina's section only states that the costumes are based on female characters from Fire Emblem Awakening. While it isn't necessary to specify the game for most characters, Tiki appears in many Fire Emblem games in many different designs, and Lucina's costume is specifically based on her appearance in Fire Emblem Awakening, which is otherwise not stated.
5. If Fox appeared with a particular color scheme in Star Fox: Assault, and Falco also appeared with that same color scheme in Star Fox: Assault, I can't see any reason to think Fox's costume would be based on Falco's appearance in that game. It's highly implausible that a costume would be based on a different character (who only has that design for one game) when the character themselves has a plausible origin costume in that same game. In fact, the only thing the SSB4 Fox costume really has in common with Assault Falco is that they're both red. If it were based on Falco, you would expect at least another color to match (e.g. the boots being silver to match Falco's, but they're gold in SSB4). --SnorlaxMonster 06:49, 2 January 2019 (EST)
6. For Donkey Kong, many of the suggested origins do have clothing (or even a tie if it's based on another appearance of Donkey Kong himself), but the tie color doesn't match SSB4. Likewise, some of the Donkey Kong appearances in other games (like Mario Golf) have differences in the color of his skin, but this is not reflected in the SSB4 costume that is alleged to be based on it. Donkey Kong's skin color and tie color do vary between costumes, so the fact that only his fur resembles a proposed origin should cast doubt on that origin; specifying when only his fur resembles a stated source makes readers aware of this. In the same way that you shouldn't simply state without qualification that a Donkey Kong costume is based on a source if his tie matches but his fur does not, you shouldn't do the reverse either. (The same applies for many other characters, an extreme example being saying that a Jigglypuff costume is based on Leaf because they have the same hat.)

For example, Donkey Kong's yellow Mario Golf costume has a red tie and dark skin, yet his SSB4 costume has light skin and a blue tie. This is despite the fact that Donkey Kong has dark skin in his second costume and has red ties in two non-default costumes. This fact should be made clear to the readers.

--SnorlaxMonster 06:58, 2 January 2019 (EST)

Images too big

I would just like to note that the images for the different costumes are too big and cut off the last costume for most of the fighters. 2Hats (talk) 13:57, April 27, 2019 (EDT)

Mega Man edits

I would like to make some edits to Mega Man, but the page is protected and I don't have the editing privileges. If someone would like to review the following and make the edits as you see fit, I'd appreciate that.

I've added a few more sources for Mega Man's colours, but also separated them into accurate sources and "similar colors", because some of the listed sources, I don't believe are accurate enough. There are also a few mentions of "official artwork" and "in-game appearance" because they're quite different in some cases. I also cleaned up some of the links and removed the repeated links to the games' Wikipedia articles.

|desc2=Resembles his appearance when using [http://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Transport_items Items 1, 2, and 3] in ''{{s|wikipedia|Mega Man 2}}'', the various [http://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Rush_Coil Rush] [http://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Rush_Jet Summons] and [http://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Power_Mega_Man Rush] [http://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Jet_Mega_Man Adaptors] from ''{{s|wikipedia|Mega Man 4}}'' to ''{{s|wikipedia|Mega Man 6}}'', and the [http://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Optic_Laser Optic Laser] in ''{{s|wikipedia|Street Fighter X Mega Man}}''.

(Rush summons are also in Mega Man 3, but his colour is more magenta than red in that game. Likewise, Rush Adaptors are in Mega Man 7 and later, but the colours are darker.)

|desc3=Resembles his [http://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Hyper_Bomb appearance] when using [[Hyper Bomb]] in the original ''{{iw|wikipedia|Mega Man|video game}}'', [[Leaf Shield]] in ''Mega Man 2'', [http://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Search_Snake Search Snake] in ''{{s|wikipedia|Mega Man 3}}'', [http://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Gyro_Attack Gyro Attack] in ''{{s|wikipedia|Mega Man 5}}'', [http://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Centaur_Flash Centaur Flash] in ''Mega Man 6'', and [http://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Tornado_Blow Tornado Blow] in ''{{s|wikipedia|Mega Man 9}}''.

(Hyper Bomb appears in SSB4 along with Leaf Shield, but it's a custom special. Also, not sure if this is worth mentioning, but the official artwork for Leaf Shield also includes the yellow joints, so I would consider that the "leading" source over Hyper Bomb.)

|desc4=Resembles his [http://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Metal_Blade appearance] when using [[Metal Blade]] in ''Mega Man 2''. Similar colors are seen when using [http://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Ring_Boomerang Ring Boomerang] in ''Mega Man 4'', and in the [https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/megaman/images/4/46/MM6-SilverTomahawk-Art.jpg official artwork] of [http://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Silver_Tomahawk Silver Tomahawk] in ''Mega Man 6'', though the latter's in-game appearance is notably different.

|desc5=Resembles his [http://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Gemini_Laser appearance] when using Gemini Laser in ''Mega Man 3''. Similar colors with a slightly lighter shade of cyan are seen in official artwork for [http://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Skull_Barrier Skull Barrier] in ''Mega Man 4, and the in-game appearance when using [http://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Crystal_Eye Crystal Eye] in ''Mega Man 5, [http://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Jewel_Satellite Jewel Satellite] in ''Mega Man 9'', and [http://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Block_Dropper Block Dropper] in ''{{s|wikipedia|Mega Man 11}}'', while a slightly darker shade is seen when using [http://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Air_Shooter Air Shooter] in ''Mega Man 2'', [http://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Dive_Missile Dive Missile] in ''Mega Man 4'', and [http://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Water_Wave Water Wave] in ''Mega Man 5''.

(Not sure if Mega Man 11 should be listed since it was released after SSB4...?)

|desc6=Resembles his [http://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Slash_Claw appearance] when using Slash Claw in ''{{s|wikipedia|Mega Man 7}}''. Similar colors are seen when using [http://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Astro_Crush Astro Crush] in ''{{s|wikipedia|Mega Man 8}}''.

(In my opinion, there's enough of a difference to move Astro Crush to "similar colors". Slash Claw uses light green and yellow while Astro Crush's are clearly darker.)

|desc7=Resembles his [http://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Fire_Storm appearance] when using Fire Storm in the original ''Mega Man'', [http://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Atomic_Fire Atomic Fire] in ''Mega Man 2'', [http://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Magma_Bazooka Magma Bazooka] in ''Mega Man 9'', and [http://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Solar_Blaze Solar Blaze] in ''{{s|wikipedia|Mega Man 10}}'', as well as the [https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/megaman/images/c/cd/MM6-FlameBlast-Art.jpg official artwork] for [http://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Flame_Blast Flame Blast] in ''Mega Man 6''. Similar colors are seen when using [http://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Crash Star Crash] in ''Mega Man 5'', [http://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Flame_Sword Flame Sword] in ''Mega man 8'', [http://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Wave_Burner Wave Burner] in ''{{s|wikipedia|Mega Man & Bass}}'', and [http://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Yoga_Inferno Yoga Inferno] in ''Street Fighter X Mega Man''.

Desc8 is fine. ;) I think the 8th colour more accurately resembles Thunder Beam and Thunder Wool than it does Top Spin, but the latter is more likely the "real" source since that move is in Smash.

SSBU's Mega Man colours appear to be the same, so the changes could be made there as well. HelpTheWretched (talk) 18:58, February 27, 2021 (EST)

I think it would probably be best to go with the ones that are closest to the "real" source, like you said with Top Spin and Leaf Shield, and leave the rest for "similar colors". Sources that released before SSB4 probably shouldn't be mentioned. ~ StrawberryChan (talk) 19:03, February 27, 2021 (EST)

Oh, hi, you're here too! :)

Just to clarify, the ones that I called "similar colours" are more-or-less the same colour scheme as the SSB4/U costumes, but with noticeably different shades and/or hues. So that makes it not really a matter of "real sources" vs. "similar colours". For example, the green and white one may be primarily based on Leaf Shield, but the Hyper Bomb and all the other sources listed are more than just similar colours, they're virtually the same. And on the flip-side, Top Spin is most likely the real source, but it doesn't quite match the 8th costume, so it's also a "similar colour" whereas the Thunder Beam/Wool are more exact colours.

All this is to say that yes, the descriptions I wrote could definitely be rephrased to emphasize the "real sources" (and conform to any SmashWiki standards that I'm not aware of), but the classifications I gave should remain. Sorry if this is overly pedantic, IMO it's good to be thorough. HelpTheWretched (talk) 18:35, March 1, 2021 (EST)