Talk:List of spirits (disambiguation)

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Reworking the layout of the spirits pages

Long ago, I separated the battle data from the spirits stats because the spirits per series pages were way too cluttered. Since then, a lot of extra data as been added and/or reorganized (music, inspiration, stats) and the lists are now very cluttered yet again. A year ago, I proposed to rework the whole layout of those page to make them more readable, but the moderators consider that such a change requires a consensus, and because of the lack of comments on the proposition, it just went nowhere. So here I am now, making the same proposition again, hoping this time you'll all give your opinion about it.

The proposition consist of two main changes that are explained in separate sub-sections bellow to allow you to reply to each one separately:

• Moving the origin informations out of the spirit stats arrays, and grouping them with the series informations.
• Separating the battle inspirations from the battle data, to put them in a more generic "trivia" section.

In order to provide a preview of the result of such a change, I made a sandbox to display what the Wario series page would then look like: just click here.
YoshiRyu (talk) 07:02, February 21, 2021 (EST)

Moving the Origin with the series

The reasons I propose to move the origin informations with the series are the following ones:

• First, it makes little to no sense to put the spirits origin and their artwork origin with the spirits stats and the other gameplay data.
• It makes however a lot more senses to group the spirits origin and their artwork origin with their series, as all those informations are related the the spirits history.
• It also makes no senses to separate the spirits origin informations by spirit types as those information are relevant to all the spirits, regardless of their type.

Incidentally, it could make more sense to put that list at the top of the page, in order to have it start with a complete spirits list, rather than the sublists.

Here is what the "Spirit Origin" array would look like in the end:

Spirit			Origin
No.	Image	Name	Spirit Origin	Artwork Origin	Series
1		Mario	Donkey Kong	Mario Party 10	Super Mario Series
2		Builder Mario	Super Mario Maker		Super Mario Maker Series
3		Mario (Wedding)	Super Mario Odyssey		Super Mario Series
4		Luigi	Mario Bros.	Mario Party 8

YoshiRyu (talk) 07:02, February 21, 2021 (EST)

I'd personally move the series titles to the main tables and the origin moved to the origin table. Just like stats the series info is readily visible and the sticker tables do it that way too. Granted this would make my life harder because of how my battle syncing code works. It would be easier for me to have the series info with the battles as well; if the below proposal goes through then spacing won't be an issue.

I heavily disagree with the proposed placement of the origin table. I like the useful information to be front and center, I don't consider origin stuff to be useful. As a player, the information I need to play the game is stats, abilities, and maybe battle info.

Oppose the placement, neutral on everything else.

--CanvasK (talk) 08:40, February 21, 2021 (EST)

Moving the Inspirations in a new array

So, on top of messing up the readability of the battle array, this column has another problem: since it has been added, contributors have been editing it back and forth to add and remove informations that are tangentialy related to the spirit battles. Instead of fighting over it, we could simply remove the inspiration column from the battle array (keeping it for the in-game data about the battles only) and put that information in a brand new array that could either be a "Spirit trivia" section of its own or be put at the begining or the end of the regular trivia section. Such an array would allow, with proper context, to expand the battle inspiration with other informations such as why a spirit as a particular ability, or is acquired a particular way, or featured in a particular location in World of Light. I put a list of examples a how such a more generic column could be used at the end of this subsection.

Here is what this "Spirit Trivia" array would look like:

No.	Image	Name	Trivia points
104		Geno	Spirit Battle inspirations: The team that appears in his spirit battle represents the player's party in Super Mario RPG: Mario, Peach, Bowser, Mallow (represented by Kirby), and Geno (represented by Sheik). The decreased FS Meter charge time reflects one of Geno's moves, Geno Boost, which raises his allies' attack power. The stage choice represents Star Road, Geno's place of origin and a prominent location in Super Mario RPG. In World of Light, his Spirit Battle is located on the space area, reflecting how, in Super Mario RPG, Geno is a warrior from Star Road.

And here are some exemples of informations beside spirit battle inspirations that could be featured in that new trivia section:

• Lakitu & Spiny: The type of this spirit is Grab in reference of Lakitu frequently using a fishing rod for various tasks since Super Mario Kart.
• Absolutely Safe Capsule: The maximum defense stat of this spirit is 10,000, the highest in Smash, because this capsule is supposed to be impossible to break.
• Waluigi: This spirit effect is Foot Attack ↑ as a reference to Waluigi being described having strong legs in Mario Tennis/Party (not sure, but you get the idea).
• Geno: In World of Light, his Spirit Battle is located on the space area because, in Super Mario RPG, Geno is a warrior from Star Road.
• Mimicutie: In World of Light, her Spirit Battle become available after the player tries to open a fake chest, referencing how Mimicuty tricks people by looking like a chest.
• Zelda (Spirit Tracks): This spirit is enhanced from the Phantom spirit because in Spirit Tracks, Zelda is first introduced as a Phantom (not sure, but you get the idea).
• Poppi α: This spirit is available throught summoning, reflecting how in Xenoblade Chronicles 2 she is an artificial blade built by Tora.
• Aegislash: This spirit is available at Anna's Emporium to reference the fact that it is classified as a Royal Sword Pokémon in the Pokédex.
• Stack-Up: This spirit can exclusively be acquired by purchasing it in a shop, referencing how R.O.B. was initially a real life accessory for the Nes sold separatly.
• Agitha: This spirit can be obtained by completing the challenge "Collect 10 unique spirits" just like she revolved around collecting insects in Twilight Princess.

YoshiRyu (talk) 07:02, February 21, 2021 (EST)

I've been bouncing back-and-forth on how I feel about this. On one hand it adds another table to the page. On the other hand it removes the inspiration column from the battle table, which makes it much more user friendly on mobile (the Super Star inspiration takes more than a full phone screen, and makes the other more important info appear tiny). It would also allow for more trivia and have the WoL related stuff flow better. Neutral leaning towards support. --CanvasK (talk) 08:40, February 21, 2021 (EST)

I hate to be that one guy who slides into conversations, I suppose I should agree with the changes. The Pokémon Spirit Battle inspiration column does feel a bit to claustrophobic. Plus, the trivia points seem to highlight the Spirits' points in particular better than the inspiration column.Autismo555 (talk) 09:17, February 21, 2021 (EST)

It's a proposal, an open conversation. You're free to voice your thoughts on the proposed change. --CanvasK (talk) 09:53, February 21, 2021 (EST)

Cool. So would the Spirits of each series have their own trivia template apart from the Spirit Battle template, or would the battle parameters (including fighters, stage, music, rules and conditions, etc.) be included to help with the context?Autismo555 (talk) 10:50, February 21, 2021 (EST)