Forum:General proposals/Archive 4

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Welcome to the SmashWiki Proposals page.
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Using the tabber for stages and moves

The tabber will be used for overhead shots of the stage in each game it is in. For example, Hyrule Castle would look something like this. Additionally, alternate forms of the stage (such as the two boxing ring designs), or different transformations may be used as well. I also added in a tabber for Peach Bomber, making it show screenshots of both Peach Bomber and Daisy Bomber in Ultimate. However, like with the stages, I don’t know if it should be for the characters or the game. Lou Cena (talk) 00:34, 6 March 2019 (EST)

Support

1. I do think the tabber should be used for stages and moves, but I’m unsure of which way to use it in. Alternate forms, transformations, different characters, or different games? Or a combination of the three? Lou Cena (talk) 00:14, 6 March 2019 (EST)
2. Why not? It's been done for characters, and all past iterations just get thrown into gallery. SugarCookie 420 19:03, March 12, 2019 (EDT)
3. I don't even see why this require a discussion. Maybe you want to be careful because you met quite a lot of opposion on other topics, but this time, it's just a minor change that would improve the overall design of the pages without any downside. I think you should simply go ahead and do it, I don't think anyone will ever complain about that idea. YoshiRyu (talk) 19:32, March 12, 2019 (EDT)

Part of why I thought this needed discussion was for two things:

1. Some images are missing, such as Marth’s Critical Hit in Ultimate

2. I don’t know if I would do it for alternate forms of stages, or the stage across all of its appearances in the series. For characters, again, do I do it for it across all of the games they’re in, or use it just for Ultimate images , but with characters sharing the move using it. And what do I do about characters ehose moves differ slightly in function, such as Gale Boomerang? Do they still go there or are they being split? Lou Cena (talk) 11:32, March 13, 2019 (EDT)

Although I am in favor of doing so (as I've done for a few Final Smashes), we should currently refrain doing so from the moves that are being discussed to be merging or splitting until a derision is reached for those. Wolff (talk) 14:59, March 13, 2019 (EDT)

My comment was more about doing it for the stages (I completly forgot that this went on with the moves). So for the stages, I think you should just go ahead and do it, no one will complain. YoshiRyu (talk) 16:03, March 13, 2019 (EDT)

I see no downside with doing it for stages. Wolff (talk) 16:05, March 13, 2019 (EDT)

Oppose

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Neutral

1.

Removing "Origin Game" sections in Spirit lists

Along with artwork sources within the section, this type of information was added at a time when the game was yet to release and information on spirits was limited. Since then, the Origin Game section has become obsolete due to the game's own "Series" listing, but spirit lists continue to use the former. I propose for the removal of the Origin Game sections in these lists, and if necessary substitute them with the Series names from the "Series Order" sections. Nokii — 17:35, 8 March 2019 (EST)

A simple example of how spirit list tables would be affected if this proposal was accepted can be found here, both with and without the Series Order section for comparison. Nokii — 21:21, 9 March 2019 (EST)

Merging and Splitting Moves

Recently, someone pointed out that the Final Smashes of Daisy, Isabelle, Dark Samus, and Dr, Mario are more or less identical to Peach, Villager, Samus, and Mario's. Someone else also pointed out that moves such as Pit's and Dark Pit's are on the same page despite being classified as different moves. I figured that rather than having individual discussions on them that we could instead tackle them all at once.

So the questions are should they merge or split?

Final Smashes 1: Should Daisy Blossom, Phazon Laser, Doctor Finale, and Dream Town Hall be merged with Peach Blossom, Zero Laser (Samus), Mario Finale, and Dream Home respectively?

1. Support: I’m the one who added those tags in the first place. They function exactly the same as their parent moves. There’s no reason for them to be separate. Lou Cena (talk) 03:36, 10 March 2019 (EDT)

They do have differences from their counterparts, not to mention different names. Wolff (talk) 21:04, 10 March 2019 (EDT)

Final Smashes 2: Should Roy's Critical Hit get it own page as it functions different from Marth and Lucina's? With that in mind, should Zero Lazer stay as two separate pages for Samus' and Zero Suit Samus'?

1. Support: It’s an entirely different move. Saying that Roy and Marth share the same final smash is like saying that Pikachu and Robin have the same move assigned to different inputs. I would argue that Wario-Man should also be split, since it works entirely differently. Lou Cena (talk) 03:36, 10 March 2019 (EDT)

Although characters like Bowser and Little Mac FS in Ultimate use the same characters (Giga Bowser/Mac) but function differently, they also have different names from previous installments. I would be more inclined to agree if Wario's was like theirs. Luigi and Rosalina keep one page as only the name changed, not also the function. I see no problem with Roy's Critical Hit being with Marth and Lucina. In fact, now that we can use more than one photo in the info box, perhaps we should merge both of Samus' and Zero Suit's Zero Lasers? Wolff (talk) 21:04, 10 March 2019 (EDT)

Final Smashes 3: Should Zero suit samus's zero lazer page, which currently has its own page, be merged or should roys critical hit be split. one of these 2 things need to be done, because they are 2 cases of conflicting interest. Either way whatever happens something needs to happen to one of the 2 pages to keep things consistent. Xtra3678 (talk) 09:57, 11 March 2019 (EDT)

That is true. I think the Zero suit Samus and Samus' Final Smashes should be merged as it is called the same thing. Had it shared a name but was used by two different characters that did not share a universe, then I think it would make sense to separate them. I think it is more confusing merging pages with different names or separating those that share one. If I want info on Critical Hit, I would go to the page. If I wanted info on Roy's, I'd go down the page to Roy's. Wolff (talk) 21:50, March 11, 2019 (EDT)

I Support making critical hit and Zero Laser all be on one page, due to the fact that if you look up the page for zero laser, you'd be able to find info on both zero lasers in only 1 page. However i can also see how separating 2 different characters pages would be beneficial, and instead would make it so that critical hit for roy has its own page. Either way there's no standard and there needs to be one soon. Xtra3678 (talk) 07:47, March 12, 2019 (EDT)

I briefly mentioned the situation regarding Luigi and Rosalina's FS, Bowser and Little Mac's FS, and Wario's FS. Going by that, I feel it would make more sense to to have one page for Zero Laser and one page for Critical Hit. If we were to separate them, what would be stopping us from having three different pages for Critical Hit, Landmaster, or Tri-force Slash regardless of similarities or differences? Wolff (talk) 22:38, March 12, 2019 (EDT)

This is also a very good reason to merge the pages because we all know that stuff like the different landmasters, or triforce slashes don't deserve their own page, and luigis and rosalinas smashes only have a name change and are otherwise identical, so they also don't deserve their own page. Wario-man Probably deserves its own discussion, but i don't see why you would bring up little mac, considering it is a different smash functionally, and has a different name (Giga mac ssb4, Giga mac Rush SSBU). either way i still think its a good idea to merge zss and samus amd keep critical hit the same.Xtra3678 (talk) 08:15, March 13, 2019 (EDT)

Final Smashes 4 Warios final smash is named the same thing, wario man, in all 3 games with final smashes, but in brawl and ssb4 they are nearly identical and is a transformation final smash, but in ssbu his final smash is a cutscene smash and is used entirely differently, almost as if it is a entirely different move. The only problem is that due to them having the same name, they share a page. The question i bring is if it would be smarter to keep the 2 smashes merged, or if it were smarter to split the page into a brawl and ssb4 page and a ssbu page.Xtra3678 (talk) 12:41, March 13, 2019 (EDT)

Wario's was originally decided to stay the same alongside Bowser and Little Mac's being split. This stemmed from someone asking about how Diddy's new Final Smash got a new page. However, Diddy's was separated due to functioning differently along with a new name, much like Bowser's and Little Mac's. On that, Wario's was decided to stay the same as it had the same name despite functioning differently. Not to mention R.O.B.'s. I still prefer the decision that was reached. Wolff (talk) 14:58, March 13, 2019 (EDT)

Special Moves 1: Should Gale Boomerang, Silver Bow, Electroshock Arm, and Super Sheet be separated from Boomerang, Palutena Bow, Upperdash Arm, and Cape?

1. Oppose: I wanted to split Roy’s FS because it was so drastically different from Marth’s. These moves, however, are the same move. Honestly, I want the bows, Fire Bird, Dr. Tornado, Agility, Double edge dance, and whatever else is split to be merged. They’re the same move. A different name or a very minor function change isn’t enough. They have the same origin, unlike Chrom and Ike’s up specials. Lou Cena (talk) 03:36, 10 March 2019 (EDT)

The Fire Fox/Bird/Wolf not only have different names, but function differently too. I do not think the Gale Boomerang should be with the others, it's a different boomerang with a different name and a few different properties. I think Agility and Double edge dance should be separated from whatever moves that they share similarities with. I do think the Pit and Dark Pit's bows and arms should be separated. It seems weird to me to bump them together if they are not named the same thing. Wolff (talk) 21:04, 10 March 2019 (EDT)

Neutrual I feel that these moves have enough defferences to deserve their own page, but they also feel like they still fit on the page they are already on. I also oppose moving Gale boomerang because I feel it isn't different enough.Xtra Talk, Edits. 21:41, March 14, 2019 (EDT)

Special Moves 2: Should Remote Bombs be merged with Bombs?

1. Oppose: While I did say that I didn’t want similar moves to have separate pages, this one is different enough to warrant its own page. It detonates based on another tap, and is thrown automatically. While it looks similar, comparing them is like comparing Wolf and Fox’s blaster. It doesn’t work.

But you are saying that you want other moves to be merged despite having only minor differences ("minor" can also mean the amount of differences). The Blasters could actually be merged to be similar to the StarFox characters' Landmasters. Wolff (talk) 21:04, 10 March 2019 (EDT)

1. Oppose: Bombs and remote bombs are about as similar in name and they explode. They otherwise act completely differently and defiantly deserve their own page. Xtra3678 (talk) 11:17, March 14, 2019 (EDT)

Agreed. Wolff (talk) 21:24, March 14, 2019 (EDT)

Should the moves be merged because they are "similar", or separated because there are "differences". Wolff (talk) 22:45, 9 March 2019 (EST)

Another thing is their origins. Some moves wanting to be merged, despite being similar, have different origins. Likewise, some wanting to be separated, despite having differences, have the same origin.

Regardless, the opinions of more than just two people are needed for this to really go anywhere. (I also feel the way the paragraphs/sentences in this discussion are layout is confusing) Wolff (talk) 21:04, 10 March 2019 (EDT)

General oppose to all merging : I think all moves, regardless of how similar they are, should have their own page. You never know what move could be changed in the next update, and merging two pages that you may need to unmerge later is a bad idea. Plus some details may be relevant to a single one of two similar moves, like the move origin, or a trivia point. YoshiRyu (talk) 05:24, March 12, 2019 (EDT)

That appears to be what is in general favored by almost everyone, but i feel that we still need a bit more discussion for this before we go through with it. Xtra3678 (talk) 07:28, March 12, 2019 (EDT)

So YoshiRyu, are you saying that all the moves named something different should be split, and moves that are named the same should be merged? If so, I agree, especially with the possibility regarding updates. If not, could you elaborate more on it? Wolff (talk) 22:38, March 12, 2019 (EDT)

Neutrual: I think we can split the different character's moves and merge the iterations of the same moves. The page names can be unified as the latest name or "Move (character)".--Capstalker (talk) 22:52, March 14, 2019 (EDT)