Talk:List of spirits (disambiguation)/Archive 1

Images

As more and more images of Spirits are being uploaded onto SmashWiki, it's probably best if we nip this in the bud as soon as we can.

What kind of images should we use for the Spirit list pages? Should we stick entirely to images taken directly from Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (including the November Direct, the website, etc.)? Or should we upload the highest quality version of an image, preferably directly from the source?

For example: for List of spirits (Pokémon series), which Charmander image should we use?

• Charmander.png

  Ultimate screenshot

• 

  Original artwork

I'd say that we should use the original artwork where available. After all, we can already see in footage that Spirits use the full artwork in-game, instead of only using cropped images such as the one seen to the left. --PeabodySam (talk) 16:37, 7 November 2018 (EST)

I disagree, i upload these images to proof that they are in the game, if we are just doing the artwork people can fake the artwork to add their own spirits that are not in the game like the final fantasy one. So to make sure that people know it's in the game i rather add crops of the actual image from smash ultimate. Hope you understand. BroskiPlays (talk 23:34, 7 November 2018 (EST)

That's fine for now, but I'm thinking long-term. Once the game is out and anyone can check if a particular spirit is in the game, then having screenshots won't be necessary as proof. Even now, we have an odd hodgepodge of PNGs from the website combined with screenshots from the Direct; it looks messy, and it would have to be addressed anyway since SmashWiki likes consistency.

What I'd recommend is that we provide a citation (November Direct, website, etc.) for any pre-release spirits, since that would be the most effective way of showing where a particular spirit has been confirmed. That way, we can use high-quality art now without having to replace it later on. --PeabodySam (talk) 19:20, 7 November 2018 (EST)

I was thinking about doing it like how sticker pages did it, but they didn't have pictures. As such, I agree with PeabodySam here, long term we should use their original artwork, unless of course the spirits themselves become available at high quality, in which case we should use those instead. SugarCookie420 (talk) 19:23, 7 November 2018 (EST)

Bumping this topic again. Friendly reminder that we now have about 700 confirmed spirits. This is going to need to be addressed at some point. --PeabodySam (talk) 22:21, 23 November 2018 (EST)

We should rip the spirit images from the game IMO, we don't really need the original images. Nyargleblargle (Contribs) 19:14, 24 November 2018 (EST)

When the game comes out, are we taking screenshots of the Spirits' cards for the lists instead of their original art? I'm asking because Kyogre and Cloud are currently using the actual art instead of a screenshot from Ultimate like most others. Wolff (talk) 21:38, 30 November 2018 (EST)

Nyargleblargle is suggesting that we just rip the full artwork of the spirits themselves when the game is released. Screenshots of the cards won't be needed anymore once anyone can easily find proof that these spirits are in the game, and all the information in these cards (type, class, and slots) will be provided by the articles' tables. --PeabodySam (talk) 10:58, 1 December 2018 (EST)

I think it'd make more sense to use of their Spirit card from Ultimate. Some characters like Madam Butterfly only has her face of her original art in the card, and others like the Legendary Birds have more than one character in them. Using the Spirit card would be easier than trying to edit out the background in the case of multiple character Spirits. Besides, we use the Smash art for the Stickers despite them using pre-existing art from their series of origin. And looking at Charmander's example, I feel it looks better (and less misleading in some cases) to use the Spirits card instead of the original art. Wolff (talk) 15:02, 1 December 2018 (EST)

Just to point out, we don't have to edit out any backgrounds; we just need to rip the artwork, which is even easier than having to take a screenshot of every single card. It's probably already been done before by dataminers; SmashWiki is just (rightfully so) waiting for the game to be released before uploading any ripped content from Ultimate. The stickers are likewise ripped straight from Brawl, as far as I know. --PeabodySam (talk) 18:22, 1 December 2018 (EST)

But wouldn't there be two types of ripped artwork then? The full image and the Spirit card? If that does end up being the case, then which would we probably end up using? Wolff (talk) 18:41, 1 December 2018 (EST)

The full image. There are already a few that have been uploaded today, so it looks like that's the direction we're heading anyways. Like I said, the information on the Spirit card would be redundant because it's already presented in the wiki's tables, so it would be more beneficial to have the full artwork. --PeabodySam (talk) 22:19, 7 December 2018 (EST)

I think the spirit card more appropriate, this will make the list neater. and have stats in images, very intuitive and facilitate.--Tyughvbnsi (talk) 22:24, 7 December 2018 (EST)

Come to think of it, do Fighter Spirits and Master Spirits even have cards? If not, then it would look inconsistent to have some cards and some full images. Better to be consistent and have full images for all of them. --PeabodySam (talk) 22:58, 7 December 2018 (EST)

True. However, if the full image is being used, it may look redundant or out of place to include them on a character's page (Dixie for example: She uses her most recent art oin her info box, which is currently the same as the one used for her spirit). If we add them to their pages, like stickers, should they have an image of their card (apart from the fighters), or should we add the full image in a similar manner to the stickers where there in a box of sorts? I feel the card would make more sense (of those who have them) if we add them to their pages. (Just to clarify: I'm talking about adding a new image where it's the Spirit card added to their individual pages) Wolff (talk) 23:47, 9 December 2018 (EST)

Convincing, and some Spirits are different from the original artwork, it can't make out form the card, so complete artwork is necessary.--Tyughvbnsi (talk) 00:26, 10 December 2018 (EST)

Origin

On a related note to the above topic, should we identify spirits by the origin of their debut, or by the origin of their artwork? For example, would we identify Pandora's origin as Kid Icarus (her debut) or Kid Icarus Uprising (the specific origin of her spirit's artwork)?

Each side comes with pros and cons:

• Identifying the debut is more informative about the character represented by the spirit. For the Pokemon series, it also helps identify generation, since most artwork will probably be from Dream World/Global Link.
• Identifying the artwork source is more informative about the specific version of the character represented by the spirit. Since this is more concrete, it also helps in cases where a character's debut may be debatable or if there are different incarnations of a particular character, especially in the Zelda series (for example, Impa made her debut in the manual of TLoZ, but her spirit represents her OoT incarnation).

I will point out that, if we use stickers as precedence, they are identified by origin of the artwork. That's currently where I stand in this. --PeabodySam (talk) 16:21, 9 November 2018 (EST)

I feel like we should identify where the artwork came from, and not the origin of debut, because the design of some characters change drastically as games progress, Palutena being a good example. However, it is pretty hard to identify some artwork, since it is possible for artwork to have little to no change as a series progress.

A separate idea I have is just to name their home series, it eliminates the trouble to identify the exact game; another idea is that we wait until Ultimate comes out, as the spirits may have backgrounds on their origin games. SugarCookie420 (talk) 17:59, 9 November 2018 (EST)

I was wondering this as well-like when I saw Impa as well as Waluigi. While Impa I can understand as there are multiple Impas (surprised they don't have old Impa as she is the most common and the most recent-but she isn't the most known). As for Waluigi-it is his Strikers design. So yeah...(Who knows they might have multiple designs for characters-we don't know how many spirits there are, there could very easily be hundreds and hundreds) Collateralshrek (talk) 18:01, 9 November 2018 (EST)

I just noticed there are 2 Skull Kid ones, so yeah I guess there are mutliple ones. Which another case would be Andross-the AT is from the SNES Star Fox, which is indeed his first appearance. Which I remember seeing him listed earlier, but is no longer here. But if he is in it (which I'm sure he is), there could be a case of needing to put Star Fox 64 instead. Collateralshrek (talk) 18:57, 9 November 2018 (EST)

Another case is on the F-Zero spirits-most of them are from F-Zero X (as only 4 characters debuted in F-Zero), but they are all (but one) listed as F-Zero GX characters as that is the model they used, considering that is the most recent (or rather last main title) that is expected. But that does seem to be yet another case on here! Collateralshrek (talk) 20:28, 13 November 2018 (EST)

I would like to bump this topic, and I agree we should go by origin game rather than picture source. VoqéoT 09:31, 20 November 2018 (EST)

Perhaps a compromise would be best? The table can be updated to include both the origins of the subject and the artwork. It could solve this issue on both fronts. --PeabodySam (talk) 19:20, 20 November 2018 (EST)

I've demonstrated this compromise in my recent edit to List of spirits (Metroid series). The origin game is listed first, and if the artwork is from a different game, it is listed below in parentheses. Any thoughts? --PeabodySam (talk) 18:32, 23 November 2018 (EST)

I think we're heading in the right direction with this, but there's no indication whatsoever letting users know what the game inside the parenthesis means. Pokebub (talk) 10:13, 25 November 2018 (EST)

I really think that we should include both origin game and origin of the artwork. I just have no idea how to go about it as the template is already pretty big. Maybe the "Origin Game" section can be split into two? One for origin game and the other for artwork origin. Pokebub (talk) 10:13, 25 November 2018 (EST)

I agree that a separate column for artwork origin would be optimal, but also run the risk of cluttering the table. In an attempt to address the lack of indication, I've tested adding "Artwork:" to the parentheses. Do you think this would work better? --PeabodySam (talk) 22:17, 25 November 2018 (EST)

Maybe we can separate spirit datas and spirit battles datas.--Tyughvbnsi (talk) 04:32, 26 November 2018 (EST)

Capitalization

All the articles on the wiki have Spirit/Spirits capitalized, when talking about the characters as well as the mode, but all the list articles have a lowercase s in "List of spirits." I think we should move all the articles to have an uppercase S. SuperFalconBros (talk) 09:15, 12 November 2018 (EST)

The pages for lists of trophies and stickers are not capitalized, which is why spirits are not. Spirits themselves probably shouldn't be capitalized either; only the mode itself would be (if it's presented that way ingame). Toomai Glittershine The Victorious 20:32, 13 November 2018 (EST)

According to Game Informer the number of spirits is 448 that is known so far, but..

Yeah we have 502, granted some of them like FLUDD are on here (which I'm not sure if these are even used towards the actual count as I think I counted more then 39 spirits on the Mario page), so where are all the other names coming from? (Someone else edited another page with 448)

This popped up on Youtube a couple hours ago btw, so I doubt 64 Spirits were just added in the process. We might want to count some of the pages with large number of spirits as well (like the Mario and Pokemon ones) to see if we actually got the right number listed.

Collateralshrek (talk) 23:02, 18 November 2018 (EST)

Assuming you're talking about this video from GameXplain, if you look at our lists, even counting out the more dubious ones (those with no images, and the ones using these online avatar thingies seen during the Lobbies section of the Direct), there are a few that are not present in said video, such as Meta Ridley. They also point out in this very video that some spirits are unknown. I'm pretty sure 448 is just meant to be the number they found themselves. It's not really relevant anyways since this number is temporary and will only be definitive after the game launches and every spirit has been collected and reported on the wiki. Ponyshment 23:12, 18 November 2018 (EST)

Thats a good point. And yeah the number might be iffy (we might of miscounted as well on some, like there are the ones that will have tons like Mario and Pokemon, the easy ones like Ice Climber and Duck Hunt are ones that we just have to look and know we got that right)

Either way, good work everyone. Collateralshrek (talk) 23:15, 18 November 2018 (EST)

Where the heck did the 1,297 spirits come from?

It was at 691 last night-now suddenly it jumps up to 1,297, yet I don't really see any changes on any of the numbers on the individual pages, where is that number coming from? Collateralshrek (talk) 17:58, 24 November 2018 (EST)

The number comes from the list linked to at the top of the page (here), which is a complete list of all the spirits that were leaked a while ago. The number of lines on the text file is 1297, and one spirit occupies each line. Thus, this is where the 1297 number comes from. — Nokii (T·C·L) 18:04, 24 November 2018 (EST)

Okay-I was beyond confused, as I would figure the other list would of jumped up-but it's number is exactly the same and the total is nowhere near 1,297. Collateralshrek (talk) 18:06, 24 November 2018 (EST)

I think it was coming from this source. https://nintendoeverything.com/super-smash-bros-ultimate-leaks-datamine-roundup/--Jacob9594 (talk) 18:07, 24 November 2018 (EST)

If you mean the numbers besides each "series" section, that's because the list here is still being worked on, and the text file is jumpy with its organization, making it more difficult to update the pages. — Nokii (T·C·L) 18:20, 24 November 2018 (EST)

Well the total wont reach 1,297 yet as we still have tons of undiscovered ones! Collateralshrek (talk) 18:39, 24 November 2018 (EST)

Enhanced Spirits

About the spirits that can be enhanced: how should it be indicated that they can do so and how should the spirit they become be identified?

My personal feeling is that it should be listed in the ability section of the base spirit that it can enhance (since none that I have seen had an ability on top of the enhance message), along with the spirit it becomes listed in parenthesis.

Example: Can be enhanced at Lv. 99 (becomes King Boo)

For reference, the spirits that I have personally seen that can be enhanced are:

• Mario: Boo (becomes King Boo)
• Donkey Kong: Dixie Kong (becomes Dixie Kong & Kiddy Kong)
• Metroid: X Parasite
• Pokemon: Groudon (becomes Primal Groudon)
• Fire Emblem: Tsubasa Oribe (becomes Tsubasa Oribe (Carnage Form))
• Animal Crossing: Tom Nook
• Wario: 5-Volt
• Metal Gear: Naked Snake (becomes Big Boss), Revolver Ocelot (Metal Gear Solid 3)
• Sonic: Shadow the Hedgehog
• Mega Man: Geo Stelar & Omega-Xis, Model X
• Castlevania: Maria Renard (child) (becomes Maria Renard (adult))
• Other: Nick

If there are other ways to do it, or if it isn't going to be done, feel free to say so.

Origin of the artwork

Not sure how this would be handled, but there should definitely be a section on spirit list templates that lets the user know what the artwork originates from. For example, on the Sonic spirits page, Chaos is listed as a spirit originating from Sonic Adventure, but there is no indication to tell that the artwork originates from Sonic Forces. Pokebub (talk) 10:06, 25 November 2018 (EST) (Didn't realize there was already discussion on this :P)

Augmented Fighter Stats

I'm proposing that separate the Augmented Fighter Stats, and make an "List of spirit battles" page. the template is already pretty big, but still need to add on enhanced and summon, so need to split page.--Tyughvbnsi (talk) 21:21, 26 November 2018 (EST)

This was already thought of and attempted, but decided against due to how similar the pages ended up being. This was a few months back though; considering how crowded each section is becoming, it would make sense to try this again. I'd love to hear what others think, though. BrawlersintheZone (talk) 22:02, 7 December 2018 (EST)

Spirit Number Listings?

While going through footage of the spirits I noticed that each spirit is listed under a Spirit Number, going from the original Mario spirit (No.1) and moving forward down the list. With this in mind, should spirits be listed by Spirit Number, with options to sort by Spirit Type/Level/Battle Requirements/etc., instead of the format it is listed in now? BrawlersintheZone (talk) 21:59, 7 December 2018 (EST)