Talk:Kongo Falls

Its a stage in Melee! Why is it up for deletion?

It's not up for deletion - the Template:Home stages template used on it is, however. Also, sign your comments with four tildes. (~~~~) – EP (Talk • Edits) 19:39, December 17, 2007 (EST)

Tournament legal?

This implies it is. This implies it isn't. Which is it? Miles (talk) 22:17, October 3, 2009 (UTC)

Proposed moves...

After a disagreement from User:Miles of SmashWiki, who said that I should have discussed things first, I figured I'd take this to a vote to see what people think.

Basically, I want to move the Melee version of Kongo Jungle - currently this page - to Kongo Jungle (SSBM), while the N64 one goes to Kongo Jungle (SSB) rather than the Congo Jungle page it is now. My reason is that it's more consistent this way: the N64's "Congo" is a mistranslation, made obvious when it was fixed when it was brought back in Melee and matched the name of the new stage. Right now, when talking about the same stage between Melee and N64's navigation (like their stage navboxes or the Stages page), we have to refer to it by two different spellings depending on what game the page or template is primarily about. I say we simply make a note that the N64 stage was misspelled as "Congo" in the original version on its page and rename its page to match the current "Kongo" spelling.

This would also match the precedent set by Final Destination (SSB) and Battlefield (SSB), which weren't actually called that in the original game but named as such for consistency's sake, with a note of what they were named as in-game. VinLAURiA (talk) 21:34, 20 April 2014 (EDT)

As I stated on my talkpage, I oppose the move.

• For starters, "Final Destination" in SSB64 is nearly official, since its Japanese name matches the later games and there is no official English name; "Battlefield" is used over "Duel Zone" as an artifact of the fact that it lacks an English name and that the successors of the same layout in every game since have had consistent English names.
• Second, these two stages are different in both name and layout, unlike the FD/Battlefield variants which are visual redesigns of the same platform layout.
• Third, the most recent game's nomenclature is not necessarily definitive; note that the Melee stage's song was retitled to "Kong Jungle" in Brawl. Probably a typo, but still.
• Fourth, for the sake of convenience, it's simpler to have the two as distinct titles.

Those are my thoughts, anyway. Miles (talk) 21:41, 20 April 2014 (EDT)

Oh, I guess I should actually put my vote in: support. I'd also argue that it's not necessarily the most recent game overriding a previous one as what's considered definitive, but what the intention seems to be despite the typo. VinLAURiA (talk) 21:49, 20 April 2014 (EDT)

Oppose. Mistranslated or not, "Congo" is what it's called, and in my opinion we shouldn't be using retcons for names if there's an established same-name thing in the way. Toomai Glittershine The Riotous 22:21, 20 April 2014 (EDT)

But it's also called "Kongo" as well in Melee. VinLAURiA (talk) 23:52, 20 April 2014 (EDT)

It's called "Kongo" only in Melee. In SSB64 it has a distinct title. Why force the pages to use the same name when we have distinct names already? Miles (talk) 00:29, 21 April 2014 (EDT)

Consistency's sake. As said earlier, right now we have to refer to the N64 stage as either "Kongo" or "Congo" depending on whether or not we're talking about it in either the original or its reappearance in Melee, such as the navboxes. I figure it'll be better in the long run if we just refer to it as Kongo across the board. VinLAURiA (talk) 13:56, 21 April 2014 (EDT)

Your primary argument seems to be that "we have to refer to it by two different spellings depending on what game the page or template is primarily about". How is this a problem as opposed to common sense? Toomai Glittershine The Ghostbuster 14:18, 21 April 2014 (EDT)

I guess it just makes more sense to me to keep the spelling the same across the wiki, and it would be more concise to use game names to differentiate the versions rather than a different spelling, especially with things like the {{SSB|x}} and {{SSBM|x}} shortcuts. Plus, as Miles said above in reference to Final Destination with how FD64's name matches the later games in Japanese as reason for retroactively calling it that, Kongo Jungle 64 matches its Melee counterpart in the Japanese, even in the original game. I just think it'd be easier on our filing system in the long run, especially should the wiki ever branch out to other languages. VinLAURiA (talk) 23:36, 21 April 2014 (EDT)

Move to Kongo Falls or Redirect?

It appears that in the "Stages" portion of the E3 reveal, this stage has been renamed to "Kongo Falls". Unknown the Hedgehog 14:31, 12 June 2018 (EDT)

I really don't know about this one. We moved "Congo Jungle" to "Kongo Jungle (SSB)" to match the newer name, but this is a lot bigger a rename than a spelling correction. Toomai Glittershine The Cloronic 14:49, 12 June 2018 (EDT)

Though I think it's a slightly better idea to move it, we may want to wait and see which name sticks among the community. Nyargleblargle (Contribs) 15:01, 12 June 2018 (EDT)

Melee is more well known by the community, so I think it's fine if we just make a redirect. Awesomelink234, the Super Cool Sonic Fan Leave a message if needed 15:13, 12 June 2018 (EDT)

I'm thinking most recent name is the better choice. Serpent  King 15:31, 12 June 2018 (EDT)

I also agree that the newer name would be better as it is more "up to date" canonically, and though we're not canon I feel a name change of a stage is significant enough to merit a move. Unknown the Hedgehog 16:46, 12 June 2018 (EDT)

We have the past case of Rainbow Cruise, where the PAL versions of both Melee and Brawl corrected the mistranslation and named it Rainbow Ride, but our page has been stable at the "outdated" NTSC name for twelve years. At the very least, the RC/RR situation shows that we should wait for the release of the game before considering a move. Bwburke94 (talk) 20:59, 12 June 2018 (EDT)

While the Western localization version of the Super Mario 64 stage's name is "Rainbow Ride," the original Japanese version's is "Rainbow Cruise."

For that we've just gone with what the NTSC version of Smash calls it, since the wiki is based in America. Nothing to do with a mistranslation. I do agree that the move should wait though. Serpent  King 16:15, 13 June 2018 (EDT)

(reset indent) I feel that Kongo Falls separates it from Kongo Jungle, where we can delete the disambig page and say "these stages are two different things, they used to share a name but now they don't." (That said, I wonder if the name change means Kongo 64 is back...) Aidan, the College-Bound Rurouni 09:50, 14 June 2018 (EDT)

Is this the first time a returning stage has been renamed? I'm in agreement on using Kongo Falls to both reflect its latest name and remove the disambig page. It doesn't necessarily require much of a name change if we keep Kongo Jungle (SSBM) as a redirect when talking about Melee; Kongo Falls applies when talking about its Ultimate incarnation and the stage in general. DryKirby64 (talk) 16:24, 17 June 2018 (EDT)

If you want to be technical, no; Kongo 64 was named "Congo Jungle" in the original Smash, but was renamed Kongo in all subsequent appearances. Aidan, the College-Bound Rurouni 17:18, 17 June 2018 (EDT)