Talk:List of major tournaments (SSBU): Difference between revisions
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|{{Trn|Ultimate Fighting Arena 2024}}||9/14/2024||567||0/0/1/3/3/8||Categorize as major||1||13||Categorized as superregional | |{{Trn|Ultimate Fighting Arena 2024}}||9/14/2024||567||0/0/1/3/3/8||Categorize as major||1||13||Categorized as superregional | ||
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Are there going to be votes on the Discord for whether or not Sumabato SP 53 will count as a major per these wiki's rules? The tournament only had 3 top 20 players in Raru, Snow and Doramigi, and we have axed out tournaments that had very few top 20 players like DELTA 8.5 (which only had 1 top 20 player in Shuton), as well as weird invitational events like the first Luminosity Invitational. Like Raki won a "major" but it didn't feel like he won an actual major given that the only top 20 player he played against was Doramigi.--[[User:Hydreigonfan01|Hydreigonfan01]] ([[User talk:Hydreigonfan01|talk]]) 14:31, November 30, 2024 (EST) | Are there going to be votes on the Discord for whether or not Sumabato SP 53 will count as a major per these wiki's rules? The tournament only had 3 top 20 players in Raru, Snow and Doramigi, and we have axed out tournaments that had very few top 20 players like DELTA 8.5 (which only had 1 top 20 player in Shuton), as well as weird invitational events like the first Luminosity Invitational. Like Raki won a "major" but it didn't feel like he won an actual major given that the only top 20 player he played against was Doramigi.--[[User:Hydreigonfan01|Hydreigonfan01]] ([[User talk:Hydreigonfan01|talk]]) 14:31, November 30, 2024 (EST) | ||
: I'm definitely open to having a vote on it, but I'm a bit skeptical it won't be approved as a major. Looking at our previous votes 95 King of Fields 3, UltCore, Let's Make Big Moves 2022, and Seibugeki 8 all survived with a similar number of top players. But we can see. [[User:Wiifitkid|Wiifitkid]] ([[User talk:Wiifitkid|talk]]) 14:59, November 30, 2024 (EST) | |||
::We are still in the middle of finishing a few votes but I'll put it on when it's done. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 16:23, November 30, 2024 (EST) | |||
::Since you proposed the vote but aren't on the Discord, do you mind mentioning what your vote would be? It'll count as a vote on the Discord. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 14:02, December 1, 2024 (EST) | |||
:Regardless of how the vote turns out, it doesn't really matter whether or not Raki only beat one Top 20 player. Dabuz won Civil War in Smash 4 with CaptainZack as his only Top 10 win, and that event was unambiguously a supermajor. The players in attendance are what matters. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 15:08, December 1, 2024 (EST) | |||
Latest revision as of 11:27, December 3, 2024
European tournaments and majors[edit]
Why is almost every big event in Europe getting lowered in value on this site? Temple: Hermes Edition, e-Caribana, 95 Kings of Fields 2 and COLOSSEL 2022 are notably either dropping from supermajor to major, or from major to superregional, and Europe is doing well in the post-online landscape.--Hydreigonfan01 (talk) 18:38, February 13, 2024 (EST)
- Well for one, 95 Kings of Fields 2 was never considered a major on the wiki to begin with. Second, it's not just Europe. The wiki is currently in the process of retiering old events for Ultimate (and Brawl too). Basically, Stuart, the guy behind the LumiRank algorithm, has been assisting us with retiering past events using the current LumiRank algorithm over the past PGR/OrionRank algorithms, both of which have some glaring flaws to it. For example, in judging 2019 tournaments we used the top 150 that the LumiRank algorithm generated instead of PGR's top 50 or OrionRank's top 100. All of this is documented on our Discord, but the changes were only done if a supermajority agreed to it.
- Due to this, a lot of tournaments that should have been majors but were not recognized as such were promoted (eg Suplex City Smash and a few 2019 Sumabatos), however on the other hand there were also several events that had overinflated scores due to entrants count and its multipliers or the ranking's overreliance on depth rather than top 100 talent, and it just so happened that a lot of European events got caught up in the fire since a lot ended up falling for the latter.
- An example of this is VCA 2022. It had a lot of European talent, including all of Europe's top 10 at the time, which was why OrionRank recognized it as a major. However when it came to players in the LumiRank algorithm's top 150 it falls short compared to other major events. Specifically, VCA 2022 had 1 top 10 (Glutonny), 4 top 50 (Bloom, Sisqui, Fatality, Abadango), and 5 top 100 (Mr.R, Raflow, quiK, Space, Leon). With that in mind, how different is VCA 2022 than an event like Sumabato SP 24, which has more top players especially in the top 50 (1 top 5 - acola; 2 top 25 - Yoshidora and Asimo; 5 top 50 - Abadango, HIKARU, Kome, Shirayuki, and Rizeasu; and 4 top 100) but is not considered a major. Entrants count yes, but I think most global rankings have established that entrants count isn't necessarily always a factor as to whether a tournament is a major or not (or else Riptide 2022 and 2023 would be considered one). When VCA 2022 was put up to a vote, 7 users agreed to demote while only 3 voted no, which was a supermajority, and thus VCA 2022 was demoted. Cookies
Creme 20:19, February 13, 2024 (EST)
Thanks for the explanation. I understand now.--Hydreigonfan01 (talk) 20:21, February 13, 2024 (EST)
Major reclassification results[edit]
While the wiki had previously used the PGRU and OrionRank as a baseline for tournaments to be considered "majors" and "supermajors", there have been many cases where events on either one of the rankings were classified as "majors" but their status was heavily disputed, while on the other hand there have been tournaments that clearly met the standards to be a major but were not classified as such by the rankings due to the rankings' flaws. While the wiki had attempted to address some of these problems in the past, most notably with raising the OrionRank major threshold from 2,400 to 3,000; major consistency remained an issue for past events.
As such, starting in January 28th, 2024, efforts were made to reclassify majors on the wiki with the help of Stuart98, the one behind the LumiRank algorithm. Tournaments up for consideration were taken from Stuart's OmegaRank algorithm, and each tournament was voted on to decide whether to promote, demote, or maintain its current status, with a supermajority (2/3 voters in support) and at least 5 votes for a change to occur. References were provided, however due to the severe issues with PGRU and OrionRank outlined here, the top 150 for 2019 and 2022 used LumiRank's output rather than the rankings present at that time (which were given the nicknames "LumiRank 2019" and "LumiRank 2022", respectively), while the 2021 rankings used OmegaRank's output for the OrionRank Ultimate: Eclipse timeframe. Although the results are still present on Discord, they are also being posted on the wiki for future reference, as well as an explanation as to why some tournaments previously considered majors, or considered majors by other sources, are no longer considered majors/not considered majors on the wiki.
| Tournament | Date of vote | Entrants | Top 5/10/25/50/100/150 attendance | Suggested change | Yes votes | No votes | Result |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Ranking used: LumiRank 2019 | |||||||
| Syndicate 2019 | 1/28/2024 | 640 | 0/1/0/2/3/9 | Demote from major | 9 | 2 | Demoted |
| Ultimate Fighting Arena 2019 | 1/28/2024 | 490 | 1/1/1/2/2/5 | Demote from major | 0 | 8 | Unchanged |
| NYXL Pop-Up! | 1/28/2024 | 96 | 1/2/1/2/4/3 | Promote to major | 2 | 8 | Unchanged |
| Smash Conference United | 1/28/2024 | 361 | 2/1/1/4/2/1 | Promote to major | 0 | 9 | Unchanged |
| Sumabato SP | 1/28/2024 | 306 | 1/1/1/4/8/9 | Promote to major | 0 | 9 | Unchanged |
| Suplex City Smash | 1/28/2024 | 220 | 1/2/2/3/7/6 | Promote to major | 8 | 0 | Promoted |
| Sumabato SP 4 | 1/28/2024 | 320 | 0/2/1/3/7/11 | Promote to major | 1 | 6 | Unchanged |
| Sumabato SP 5 | 1/28/2024 | 320 | 1/2/1/5/10/7 | Promote to major | 9 | 0 | Promoted |
| Heart of Battle | 1/28/2024 | 401 | 2/0/2/2/1/3 | Promote to major | 1 | 8 | Unchanged |
| EGS Cup | 1/28/2024 | 95 | 2/0/1/5/4/1 | Promote to major | 2 | 6 | Unchanged |
| Defend the North 2019 | 1/28/2024 | 437 | 2/1/2/1/4/5 | Promote to major | 9 | 0 | Promoted |
| Sumabato SP 6 | 1/28/2024 | 320 | 1/2/1/6/7/11 | Promote to major | 7 | 0 | Promoted |
| Tri-state Showdown: Fall 2019 | 1/28/2024 | 229 | 1/2/1/3/6/2 | Promote to major | 5 | 5 | Unchanged |
| EGS Cup 2 | 1/28/2024 | 128 | 1/1/2/7/8/2 | Promote to major | 8 | 0 | Promoted |
| Sumabato SP 9 | 1/28/2024 | 313 | 1/1/2/2/8/10 | Promote to major | 5 | 5 | Unchanged |
| Smash Ultimate Summit 2 | 1/28/2024 | 16 | 5/3/4/3/0/0 | Promote to supermajor | 8 | 1 | Promoted |
| Glitch 6 | 1/28/2024 | 551 | 2/2/4/6/8/6 | Promote to supermajor | 0 | 8 | Unchanged |
| Let's Make Moves | 1/28/2024 | 448 | 3/3/3/6/10/5 | Promote to supermajor | 3 | 6 | Unchanged |
| Umebura SP 5 | 1/28/2024 | 512 | 1/2/7/8/13/7 | Promote to supermajor | 7 | 1 | Promoted |
| Umebura SP 6 | 1/28/2024 | 772 | 0/1/7/9/11/7 | Promote to supermajor | 1 | 7 | Unchanged |
| Umebura SP 7 | 1/28/2024 | 758 | 1/2/7/9/10/10 | Promote to supermajor | 8 | 0 | Promoted |
| Sumabato SP 11 | 1/28/2024 | 312 | 1/2/1/2/6/11 | Promote to major | 9 | 0 | Promoted |
| Maesuma TOP 2 | 1/28/2024 | 318 | 1/0/3/3/8/8 | Promote to major | 4 | 7 | Unchanged |
| Umebura SP | 2/4/2024 | 745 | 1/1/4/8/10/4 | Promote to supermajor | 2 | 6 | Unchanged |
| Ranking used: ΩRank 2021 "but it includes peri quarantine shit" | |||||||
| Temple: Hermes Edition | 1/28/2024 | 863 | 0/1/3/2/4/8 | Demote from supermajor | 9 | 3 | Demoted |
| Kagaribi 1 | 1/28/2024 | 133 | 1/0/2/3/5/5 | Promote to major | 1 | 12 | Unchanged |
| Maesuma TOP 4 | 1/28/2024 | 128 | 0/1/2/6/7/9 | Promote to major | 2 | 10 | Unchanged |
| Seibugeki 8 | 1/28/2024 | 192 | 1/1/1/7/8/6 | Promote to major | 8 | 3 | Promoted |
| Seibugeki 9 | 1/28/2024 | 192 | 0/1/1/4/6/7 | Promote to major | 0 | 9 | Unchanged |
| Eastern Powerhouse Invitational 2 | 1/28/2024 | 32 | 2/2/3/7/9/4 | Promote to major | 8 | 3 | Promoted |
| Ranking used: LumiRank 2022 | |||||||
| e-Caribana | 1/29/2024 | 32 | 1/1/0/2/7/5 | Demote from major | 8 | 3 | Demoted |
| VCA 2022 | 1/29/2024 | 403 | 0/1/0/4/5/4 | Demote from major | 7 | 3 | Demoted |
| Wave 2 | 1/29/2024 | 200 | 1/1/3/2/8/9 | Promote to major | 9 | 0 | Promoted |
| WINNER! -Next 1- | 1/29/2024 | 89 | 1/1/2/6/8/5 | Promote to major | 5 | 5 | Unchanged |
| Sumabato SP 24 | 1/29/2024 | 128 | 1/0/2/5/4/8 | Promote to major | 1 | 7 | Unchanged |
| Sumabato SP 25 | 1/29/2024 | 192 | 1/0/2/5/7/8 | Promote to major | 2 | 6 | Unchanged |
| Sumabato SP 26 | 1/29/2024 | 248 | 1/0/2/2/6/10 | Promote to major | 0 | 7 | Unchanged |
| Sumabato SP 28 | 1/29/2024 | 160 | 1/0/2/2/5/8 | Promote to major | 0 | 9 | Unchanged |
| Sumabato SP 31 | 1/29/2024 | 207 | 0/0/2/4/4/9 | Promote to major | 0 | 10 | Unchanged |
| Crown 2 | 1/29/2024 | 416 | 1/1/4/1/4/2 | Promote to major | 7 | 2 | Promoted |
| Seibugeki 10 | 1/29/2024 | 192 | 1/0/1/2/8/10 | Promote to major | 1 | 7 | Unchanged |
| Seibugeki 11 | 1/29/2024 | 192 | 0/1/1/3/10/9 | Promote to major | 0 | 8 | Unchanged |
| 95 Kings of Fields 2 | 1/29/2024 | 256 | 1/1/1/2/3/5 | Promote to major | 1 | 8 | Unchanged |
| Apex 2022 | 1/29/2024 | 607 | 0/0/4/1/5/4 | Promote to major | 0 | 9 | Unchanged |
| WINNER! -Next Gen- | 1/29/2024 | 96 | 1/0/3/4/5/4 | Promote to major | 1 | 9 | Unchanged |
| Kamisuma 13 | 1/29/2024 | 248 | 1/0/2/2/3/5 | Promote to major | 1 | 8 | Unchanged |
| COLOSSEL 2022 | 1/29/2024 | 1,024 | 1/1/1/3/6/7 | Demote from supermajor | 7 | 3 | Demoted |
| Smash Factor 9 | 1/29/2024 | 719 | 1/1/4/3/6/6 | Demote from supermajor | 7 | 3 | Demoted |
| Let's Make Moves Miami | 1/29/2024 | 467 | 1/2/4/6/6/7 | Demote from supermajor | 9 | 2 | Demoted |
| Kagaribi 6 | 1/29/2024 | 768 | 1/1/6/7/13/8 | Promote to supermajor | 2 | 6 | Unchanged |
| Maesuma TOP 7 | 1/29/2024 | 512 | 2/2/6/6/13/13 | Promote to supermajor | 10 | 0 | Promoted |
| Maesuma TOP 8 | 1/29/2024 | 590 | 0/1/6/10/14/20 | Promote to supermajor | 2 | 7 | Unchanged |
| Scuffed World Tour | 1/29/2024 | 16 | 5/3/5/1/0/0 | Promote to supermajor | 6 | 4 | Unchanged |
| Glitch - Infinite | 1/29/2024 | 616 | 1/2/6/4/13/6 | Promote to supermajor | 0 | 10 | Unchanged |
| Smash Ultimate Summit 5 | 1/29/2024 | 16 | 4/3/4/2/2/1 | Promote to supermajor | 4 | 5 | Unchanged |
| Let's Make Big Moves 2022 | 1/29/2024 | 687 (with 336 DQs) | 0/1/3/3/10/1 | Demote from major | 7 | 7 | Unchanged |
| "By popular demand" | |||||||
| Riptide 2022 | 1/29/2024 | 776 | 0/0/2/3/7/3 | Promote to major | 0 | 11 (more?) | Unchanged |
Cookies
Creme 23:47, March 23, 2024 (EDT)
Regen 2024[edit]
As discussed in Discord, Regen 2024 sits as a pretty-comfortable A-tier on the LumiRank 2024.2 tournament tier system, which normally means the event is a major. However, many players have since questioned whether this assessment is accurate, especially because the event has a lack of top 50 players. Using the LumiRank 2024.1 ranking, the only top 50 players in attendance are Glutonny (#22), MkLeo (#25), and crêpe salée (#32); none of these players are also ranked top 20, and even though Glutonny and MkLeo have previously won majors, they were not ranked highly in the last season, and this ranking ultimately takes more importance than whether they had won majors or were top 10 players in prior seasons. There has never been a major on the wiki that had this little top 50 players in attendance, not to mention how there is not a single top 20 player in attendance.
With this in mind, a vote was performed on the SmashWiki Discord on whether to categorize Regen 2024 as a major. The results were the following:
| Tournament | Date of vote | Entrants | Top 5/10/25/50/100/150 attendance | Suggested change | Yes votes | No votes | Result |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Regen 2024 | 8/24/2024 | 571 | 0/0/2/1/3/5 | Categorize as major | 1 | 16 | Categorized as superregional |
Regen 2024 will be revisited at the end of the LumiRank 2024.2 season in case any major shifts took place between the two seasons. CookiesCreme 23:59, August 24, 2024 (EDT)
Major reclassification results, part 2[edit]
Following Regen 2024, a few other LumiRank events were put up for a vote.
| Tournament | Date of vote | Entrants | Top 5/10/25/50/100/150 attendance | Suggested change | Yes votes | No votes | Result |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Ranking used: LumiRank 2023 | |||||||
| King Of Fields 95 3 | 8/25/2024 | 512 | 1/0/2/2/6/7 | Keep as major | 11 | 1 | Unchanged |
| UltCore | 8/25/2024 | 300 | 1/0/1/4/13/5 | Keep as major | 8 | 4 | Unchanged |
| Ranking used: LumiRank 2024.1 | |||||||
| The Luminosity Invitational | 8/25/2024 | 10 | 2/2/2/2/1/0 | Keep as major | 2 | 10 | Demoted |
| DELTA 8.5 | 8/25/2024 | 195 | 0/1/1/6/9/8 | Categorize as major | 3 | 10 | Categorized as superregional |
| Ultimate Fighting Arena 2024 | 9/14/2024 | 567 | 0/0/1/3/3/8 | Categorize as major | 1 | 13 | Categorized as superregional |
| Sumabato SP 53 | 12/1/2024 | 359 | 0/0/3/5/14/9 | Demote from major | 0/1 | 12 | Unchanged |
Similar to Regen 2024, DELTA 8.5 will be revisited at the end of the LumiRank 2024.2 season. CookiesCreme 20:11, August 26, 2024 (EDT)
From now on, instead of making a new section for each tournament whenever a discussion happens, the vote should be added onto the table above. With that being said, UFA 2024 will also be revisited at the end of the LumiRank 2024.2 season. CookiesCreme 01:20, September 15, 2024 (EDT)
Are there going to be votes on the Discord for whether or not Sumabato SP 53 will count as a major per these wiki's rules? The tournament only had 3 top 20 players in Raru, Snow and Doramigi, and we have axed out tournaments that had very few top 20 players like DELTA 8.5 (which only had 1 top 20 player in Shuton), as well as weird invitational events like the first Luminosity Invitational. Like Raki won a "major" but it didn't feel like he won an actual major given that the only top 20 player he played against was Doramigi.--Hydreigonfan01 (talk) 14:31, November 30, 2024 (EST)
- I'm definitely open to having a vote on it, but I'm a bit skeptical it won't be approved as a major. Looking at our previous votes 95 King of Fields 3, UltCore, Let's Make Big Moves 2022, and Seibugeki 8 all survived with a similar number of top players. But we can see. Wiifitkid (talk) 14:59, November 30, 2024 (EST)
- We are still in the middle of finishing a few votes but I'll put it on when it's done. CookiesCreme 16:23, November 30, 2024 (EST)
- Since you proposed the vote but aren't on the Discord, do you mind mentioning what your vote would be? It'll count as a vote on the Discord. CookiesCreme 14:02, December 1, 2024 (EST)
- We are still in the middle of finishing a few votes but I'll put it on when it's done. Cookies
- Regardless of how the vote turns out, it doesn't really matter whether or not Raki only beat one Top 20 player. Dabuz won Civil War in Smash 4 with CaptainZack as his only Top 10 win, and that event was unambiguously a supermajor. The players in attendance are what matters. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 15:08, December 1, 2024 (EST)
