User:Yo'ster/Desyncing updates

This page is a draft. Feel free to contribute to this page as you would a mainspace page. Message from the draft creator: Some clips of desync combos being performed at high-level play would be nice

Format plan:

Overview

The Ice Climbers are unusual in that the player is controlling two characters simultaneously. For Ice Climbers, the lead climber (Popo by default) is controlled directly while the partner climber (Nana by default) is CPU-controlled and follows the player's actions on a slight delay, attacking alongside the leader. If both are separated for any reason, the partner AI will prioritize returning to the leader. During this time, they will not follow any player inputs until getting within a certain distance of the player. While the partner's separate actions are unpredictable and often unfavorable, they can be manipulated to perform basic actions like attacking an opponent.

Desyncing can also be set up intentionally without having to separate the two. This is partially due to how the partner has a seven frame delay during most inputs, and from having different attributes from the leader. With slightly higher jump height, gravity, fall speed, and dash speed (as of Ultimate). Specific maneuvers take advantage of these by using specific means to delay the partner's actions, the most common being during grabs to allow the partner to attack a captive opponent or regrab them (though this particular method no longer applies in Ultimate due to changes made to grabs). Once desynced, they are essentially performing different actions as long as the player continues to press buttons.

Desyncing allows the player to perform a move with one part of the duo, whilst inputting a different command to the other, which can allow for highly damaging true combos, zero-to-death strings, and even infinites. It can also be used as a means of multitasking if the player is presented with multiple desirable opportunities. As one might expect, desyncing offers near limitless potential in terms of both metagame advancements and artistic expression, with a plethora of setups for every in-game situation, no matter how essential or impractical any may be. As such, discovering and documenting every known usage of desyncing across several games is a nigh-impossible undertaking, and most can only hope to scratch the surface of what's possible.

Desync subtypes

There are several kinds of desync that differ in execution. Most methods differ by game.

Neutral-based desyncs, or NBDs, are used in a "neutral state", i.e. not requiring an opponent to be hit or grabbed. Aerial NBDs usually involve the partner acting first, while Grounded NBDs typically involve the leader acting first.

Combo-based desyncs, or CBDs, require an opponent to be hit or grabbed. Most CBDs are kill confirms.

Miscellaneous desyncs, or MDs, don't apply to the categories above. They are situational, but have potential.

"Unconventional" desyncs, or UDs, are difficult, risky, or otherwise impractical to use, and possess little to no real practical use.

Desyncing Methods

Aerial animation

An aerial animation desync involves executing an animation (from aerials, empty hops, autocancels, or airdodges) just before landing. This can be performed in any of the three Smash games the duo is in, but it's easiest to perform in SSBU due to the partner's higher jump height, gravity, and fall speed. When performing an aerial animation desync in SSBU, only the leader will undergo the aerial's landing lag.

Primary Variants

Aerial autocancel: Performed by buffering 2 aerials back-to-back from a short-hop. The following aerial strings can be used:

Up Aerial - Up Aerial Up Aerial - Back Aerial Up Aerial - Neutral Aerial Back Aerial - Up Aerial Back Aerial - Back Aerial Back Aerial - Neutral Aerial

For the aerial strings that begin with back aerial, the earliest hitbox (on frame 8) must connect first. Otherwise, the second aerial will not allow them to desync.

Aerial landing: If the Ice Climbers land in the middle of a synchronized aerial, buffering an input a few frames before landing will have the partner act with said input. To do this, the player must short hop and use an aerial just before reaching the apex of the jump. Afterwards, immediately fast fall and input a move, letting go of the buttons for said move as soon as possible.

Empty hop: Right before landing with both Ice Climbers, if a move is buffered, the partner will perform said move immediately upon landing. Compared to Aerial Landing, the lead climber won't incur any landing lag, but this method is more difficult to perform.

Niche Variants

Another method is the Semi-solid version, requiring players to fall through a semi-solid platform, use neutral aerial, and then buffer a special move before touching the ground. They mustn't fast fall though, as this will incur landing lag and may end up performing another technique, instead.

Soymilk

The Soymilk desync, also known as the Skid, is initiated by dashing in one direction, releasing the Control Stick so that the climbers skid to a halt, then moving the Control Stick the opposite direction so that the leader turns around, and quickly interrupting the turning animation with a grounded move. If correctly executed, the 1st Climber will perform the move and the 2nd Climber will dash forward. The move input has to be made BEFORE the partner turns. That way, they'll interpret the turnaround as an initial dash. The dash interrupts the skid as early as frame 8. This means that the player must skid, turn, and input a move at least 8 frames after the first skid, but less than 6 frames after the turn. Due to differences in movement mechanics, the Soymilk desync may only work in SSBU.

Squall

A squall desync is performed by timing an input after a synced Squall Hammer. If a move is buffered after using it, the duo can act at the exact same time. (being perfectly synced actually works as a desync setup since the partner can buffer inputs sooner) This works whether or not an opponent is hit and whether or not the move is autocanceled.

Variants

Offensive: If an opponent is caught, the player can try to hop alongside the them for a handful of desync-oriented strings. While followups from Squall Hammer are seldom true, victims won't usually have enough time to escape, and will grant the duo better positioning either way.

Neutral/Defensive: If the attack is blocked, the climbers can hop away from their target to avoid opposing out of shield options and reset neutral. The player can then desync to perform techniques such as blizzwall.

Throw buffer

One major change to the Ice Climbers in Ultimate is how the 2nd climber cheers when the 1st climber throws an opponent. After a successful throw, both climbers are able to move at the same time, but the partner's wider input buffer window allows players to get the partner to move without their leader. On frame 33 of their down throw, (look for the green shockwave that appears when their victim hits the ground) there is a 3 frame window for the partner to input any move. The player must also buffer an action with the leader immediately after the partner's input and release. Neither climber will do anything post-throw if the input is too early, but they'll both move at the same time if the input is too late. Throw buffers technically work in Melee and Brawl as well, but such precision therein is unnecessary since the partner climber can act during grabs and throws, anyway. In fact, waiting until just the right moment to set up a Throw Buffer desync in Melee or Brawl can be more of a hinderance and leave potential damage and KOs on the table. This is especially true due to those games allowing Chain grabbing, which heavily incentivizes players to keep opponents within their grab range.

Variants

Leader followup The lead climber converts after throwing their opponent while the desynced partner is positioned to extend the combo. The 2nd climbers's Squall Hammer is often used as part of The Nut, which works on all characters, except Pichu and Jigglypuff, although rage can make it unreliable for another handful of the cast.

Partner followup The 2nd climber converts after the 1st throws their opponent. The desynced leader then positions themselves to extend the combo. The duo can perform alternating aerials for ladder combos at unusually early percents and/or use the partner's forward air as a finisher.

Cheer cancel

These methods circumvent the 2nd climber's cheering animation during a throw, forcing the partner to respond to player input and allowing the player to position their partner climber and/or attack sooner than they could if they were cheering. Cheer Canceling is used for a variety of strings, such as cheerless smashes and forward-throw-to-forward-air. Since SSBM and SSBB grant partner climbers free movement by default, cheer canceling is technically impossible but wholly unnecessary, because there is no cheering to cancel in the 1st place.

Variants

Standard This version cancels the 2nd climber's cheering animation through IASA frames, causing them to instead respond to inputs with moves such as roll, spot dodge, and initial dash.

Standing/dash grab The player buffers a grab without relying on IASA frames to prevent the 2nd climber from cheering. The moment the lead climber reaches for their target, the control stick and grab button should be untouched, and a pummel should be buffered. Then, immediately press and hold the input for the player's preferred conversion.

Hitlag

The hitlag desync requires one of the Ice Climbers or the opponent to be hit. The hitlag on any fighter can be used to desync.

Primary Variants

Before-type setups These interrupt animations and have Popo himself attack before Nana does. Since the partner climber waits 7 frames to respond to player input, moves with a startup time faster than 7 frames can be used by the lead climber while the player makes their partner do something else during the hitlag of their leader's attack. Different animations have different timing windows. For example, Pressing and releasing neutral attack within the first 4 frames of a dash input, shield drop, or crouch can have Popo attack alone. Before-type desyncs are used to setup combos such as jab to win, and they're going to beat you to death, and can make any of the duo's smash attacks into very fast and powerful out-of-parry options at kill percent.

After-type setups These are performed at the end of synced attacks that connect, and can make the 2nd climber move individually with a precise buffer. After-type setups allow players to desync their duo as long as they land an attack, but this can occasionally get in the way when attempting a simple bread-and-butter combo.

Niche Variants

These setups have the duo desyncing by buffering a move after taking a hit. Knockback (and subsequently, hitstun) scales with percentage, so timing varies based on how much damage either climber has taken. If they are at significantly different percentages, the partner climber may be too far away to respond to player input, but such a separation would result in a desync, anyway. Since the divide and conquer strategy is a common means of countering the Ice Climbers, taking advantage of desyncing opportunities can help to turn a supposed weakness on its head.

strings and stuff find a better spot to put these

After knocking an opponent to the ground, the player can time a solo Ice Shot with Nana to lock them if they don't tech, and Popo can follow behind it for a kill confirm, or a tech chase. During up aerial strings, the player can buffer a second up air during Nana's hitlag, and while Popo is in the animation of his second up air, Nana can be made made to use forward aerial from a double jump. With the variety of getup options available at ledge, ledge desyncs can be mixed and matched in many ways.

Up smash out of shield When up smashing out of shield, by releasing and holding the attack button again, the player can have Popo up smash alone while Nana continues charging her up smash. Useful against opponents that try to grab Popo out of shield; when they try to grab him, Nana loses control and immediately strikes the opponent. This can be countered by the opponent using an attack to knock Nana out of her charge, but Popo is free to release it whenever. Short-Hop Neutral Aerial: By connecting with a buffered short-hop neutral aerial on frame 6, the player can cancel Nana's jumpsquat into any special move. Good for out-of-shield neutral aerial (frame 9) on tall characters.

Ledge

Ledge desyncs are initiated after grabbing the ledge by use of Belay or Squall Hammer with both climbers. During their edge grabbing animation, a well-timed input will make the 2nd climber move independently.

Variants

Belay When recovering with Belay, the player can buffer a getup option right before the leader is able to respond accordingly. This will make only their partner get up if timed correctly. It should be noted that the 2nd climber will choose a get up option on their own if they just barely make it to the ledge.

Squall Hammer When recovering with Squall Hammer, the player can buffer a getup option for their partner right before the leader is able to respond to it. This will make only the partner get up if timed correctly.

Foxtrot

Performed by foxtrotting. At the end of a foxtrot, whiff a grab and continue to foxtrot with Nana instead, causing her to continue to move. Players can continuously buffer dash grabs. Since Nana is compelled to stand still during a grab, this can be used to but some space between the two and desync them.

Down smash

An easy method. Upon performing down smash, the player can buffer a dash forward near the end of the animation. Due to being programmed to face the other way when using down smash, Nana will dash the opposite direction. This setup only works in SSBU, since in Melee and Brawl, the Ice Climbers have a completely different down smash that doesn't make Nana swing the other way.

Dodge

Dodges can easily get the Ice Climbers desynced at least slightly, and skilled players can use dodge desyncs to turn nearly every defensive maneuver into an impressive showing of technical skill.

Variants

By angling the c stick left, right, or down, and holding z at the same time, Popo will repeatedly grab, and Nana will continuously roll or spotdodge as long as the c stick is held in any direction besides up. A desync can then be started at any point between grabs.

Spotdodging repeatedly to stale it can slowly but surely desync the duo due to the 2nd climber's delayed movement, causing the lead climber's spotdodge to stale sooner and making them slower to act.

Rolling behind an opponent and/or Performing the Sacred Combo can also work as a substitute for cheer canceling, since buffering a grab and then another option right after stops the usual cheering.

Desync Combos/Techniques

While the Ice Climbers are well known for their variety of zero-to-death combos, they don't really have a one-size-fits-most like other fighters such as Luigi (SSBU) or Kazuya (SSBU). Rather, their zero-to-deaths take different routes depending on the situation. Between every hit, the matchup, percentage, and stage positioning has a cause and effect on what will be the optimal combination. As such, many zero-to-death options aren't known by a particular name, but can instead be divided into a series of recognizable combo "chunks".

Cheerless Smash

Cheerless smash (short for cheerless grab smash attack) refers to a desynced kill confirm combining a throw with a buffered smash attack from the partner, keeping the opponent in place to turn their otherwise weak throws into some of the strongest in the game. The damage and launch power of cheerless smashes vary depending on the player's timing, as landing the smash attack will usually interrupt the actual throw, preventing some of the throw's damage from being dealt, while delaying the smash can not only let the throw connect and damage the opponent in its entirety, but also further strengthen the combo due to charging the smash a little in the meantime.

The term comes from circumventing the partner Climber's cheer animation when the leader performs a grab and using input buffering to get the partner to perform a smash attack. Although the cheering animation was introduced in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate and certain setups have their own terms (e.g. back dash, cheer cancel, etc.), "cheerless smash" is used as a blanket term for any throw and smash attack combination that's obtained in spite of the partner's cheering.

Cheerless smashes can be performed in all 3 Smash games in which the climbers are playable, however, in Super Smash Bros. Melee and Super Smash Bros. Brawl, due to either of the duo being able to act while the other is holding an opponent, throws are "cheerless" by default. So a cheerless smash is an unnecessary and suboptimal conversion compared to the infamous setups available. Which are noticeably easier, safer, and more rewarding. As such, cheerless smashes seldom see use in Melee or Brawl, if at all.

Primary variants

The forward-throw-forward-smash confirm, abbreviated as "FF", KOs at about 75% at its weakest, and 57% when performed optimally.

The back-throw-forward-smash confirm, abbreviated as "BF" and also known as "yeet", KOs at about 72%, and cannot be optimized due to the point from which the opponent is thrown and the lack of hitlag. The smash must be buffered, and attempting to charge it for even a single frame will cause them to swing several frames too late.

The up-throw-up-smash confirm, abbreviated as "UU", KOs at about 115% at its weakest, and 100% when performed optimally. Strangely, the up smash's knockback will be outprioritized by that of the up throw if the smash attack is buffered. Making the throw deal much more damage than it's supposed to, but without the knockback needed to KO at realistic percents. The partner Climber must charge their up smash for at least 3 frames to avoid being deprioritized. (It doesn't need to enter the charge interval, the player just has to be holding the smash-input during the 1st 3 frames of the smash's startup)

The down-throw-down-smash confirm, abbreviated as "DD", KOs at about 100% at its weakest, and 89% when performed optimally. The down smash will miss completely if it is buffered, so the partner Climber must charge their down smash for at least 10 frames to avoid swinging too early. (It doesn't need to enter the charge interval for 10 frames, the player just has to be holding the smash-input during the 1st 10 frames of the smash's startup)

Niche variants

The forward-throw-up-smash confirm, abbreviated as "FU", is usually a misinputted attempt at a UU. It KOs at about 124% at its weakest, and 122% when performed optimally. Strangely, the up smash's knockback will be outprioritized by that of the forward throw if the smash attack is buffered. Making the throw deal much more damage than it's supposed to, but without the knockback needed to KO at realistic percents. Similarly to UU, the partner Climber must charge their up smash for at least 3 frames to avoid being deprioritized. (It doesn't need to enter the charge interval, the player just has to be holding the smash-input during the 1st 3 frames of the smash's startup) As a niche and often unintentional variant, it's significantly inferior to UU, but it occasionally works as a "disrespectful" DI mixup due to the lead climber's animation making opponents anticipate an FF, and the tech's abbreviation mirroring "FU", a form of trash talk.

The forward-throw-down-smash confirm, abbreviated as "FD", KOs at about 105% at its weakest, and 93% when performed optimally. Due to being weaker and much more difficult to perform, FD should never be used over DD.

The down-throw-forward-smash confirm, abbreviated as "DF", KOs at about 73% at its weakest, and 59% when performed optimally. The forward smash will miss completely if it is buffered, so the partner Climber must charge their forward smash for at least 6 frames to avoid swinging too early. (It doesn't need to enter the charge interval for 6 frames, the player just has to be holding the smash-input during the 1st 6 frames of the smash's startup) Compared to DF, it can take stocks slightly sooner, but is slightly weaker when both are done perfectly.

The down-throw-up-smash confirm, abbreviated as "DU", KOs at about 119% at its weakest, and 106% when performed optimally. The up smash will miss completely if it is buffered, so the partner Climber must charge their up smash for at least 3 frames to avoid swinging too early. (It doesn't need to enter the charge interval for 3 frames, the player just has to be holding the smash-input during the 1st 3 frames of the smash's startup) Unlike every other cheerless smash, charging the smash for a moment can actually weaken DU, as the small boost in knockback from the extra charge time is not always worth giving up the higher position from which the opponent is launched. The weakest timing is 10 frames of charge, while the minimum charge of 3 frames KOs at 115%. Due to being weaker and much more difficult to perform, DU should never be used over UU.

Smash attacks and throws could hypothetically be combined in several other ways, but wouldn't actually connect with their target due to the positions of certain hitboxes and that of the partner climber during throw animations. For example, Up throw can't be combined with forward or down smash since the up throw positions foes above the duo, while smash attacks besides up smash hit fairly low to the ground. While back throw's opponent positioning appears as though it could work with up or down smash, the former is just barely too slow, and the latter forces the 2nd climber to use down smash while facing the same direction as the 1st climber as of grabbing the enemy. Since back throw sends foes behind them, the down smash will be aimed in the wrong direction.

Forward-throw-forward-air

Forward-throw-forward-air, abbreviated as "fthrow fair", and also known as "the dunk", is a tech which has each of the duo acting differently while reading the push of the jump and attack buttons, along with the left stick being angled forward, resulting in one climber forward throwing an opponent, while the other performs a short-hop forward air. This can be used as a combo starter onstage, or a way to take stocks at early percentages near the edge. The timing of the partner's foward air is fairly lenient, and can be adjusted to adapt to different matchups and positions. For example, a large opponent may have a hurtbox close enough to connect with the aerial's sourspot, so a slightly later forward air that doesn't land until the target has begun to take knockback from the throw allows it to connect with the sweetspot. This also comes in handy if the duo isn't very close to the ledge. Knocking the enemy away slightly right before spiking them ensures that they'll be positioned far enough forward to be KO'd once they are spiked.

The tech's name is made very simple and self-explanatory in spite of its importance to high-level usage of the Ice Climbers, with it simply being the names of the moves strung together.

Fthrow fair has its uses in Melee, Brawl, and Ultimate, but the latter even more so. Since grabs can't be abused to continuously loop opponents for damage, zero-to-death combos need to do away with foes quickly, and spiking them right off the edge of the stage is a great way to do so. Ultimate's fthrow fair is also commonly associated with "Twitter clips" among casual players and those unfamiliar with the character(s).

Jab to win

Jab to win is a zero-to-death combo from SSBU which utilizes the jab desync. The lead climber jabs while making their partner perform a side special, this then leads to a down throw from the leader and a forward aerial from the partner. During the forward air, the lead climber short hops and lands with neutral air, followed by another side special from the partner climber. This then converts into a forward-throw-forward-air at the ledge to finish off the opponent. depending on the matchup and stage positioning, a down special may be a better option than side special. Jab to win is one of Ultimate's easier zero-to-deaths, but doesn't rack up enough damage prior to its finishing blow to consistently KO many fighters.

The nut

The nut was 1 of the 1st zero-to-death combos discovered in Ultimate, performed with a throw buffer desync in which the lead climber converts a down throw into an up-angled forward tilt while their partner rolls forward. The partner climber then uses a side special, followed by another down throw from the lead climber, who this time combos the throw into a neutral aerial, leading to another side special from the partner and then a third and final grab. The combo is then finished with a forward-throw-forward-air to take the stock (provided the opponent is grabbed close enough to the ledge). Mastering this string is a common means of practice for inexperienced players, since it gives them a feel for important techs like throw buffer and forward-throw-forward-air. However, the nut's actual usefulness in a competitive environment is very limited due to being escapable by most of the cast, on top of the usual difficulty one can expect from desyncing.

They're Going To Beat You To Death

A zero-to-death from Ultimate done with a jab desync into a down smash from the 2nd climber, followed by a leader up aerial, partner forward aerial, leader down aerial, a second partner forward air, and a forward-throw-forward-air. The usefulness of this combo is highly limited due to the impracticality of landing the up air, as it's just barely possible in most matchups and susceptible to DI.

Blizz

Primary Variants

Blizzwall refers to a series of alternating uses of Blizzard, creating a constant barrage of ice that can cover most ledge getup options, rack up major damage against unsuspecting foes, and even wall out opponents who lack a prioritized and disjointed move to combat it, forcing a predictable approach from above. A desynced Blizzard can also be used in tandem with Ice Shot, attacking distant foes while Blizzard prevents the shots from being sent back at the climbers. The multihits of the partner climber's down special can lead to grabs, but this is unreliable past early percentages since a frozen opponent can't be grabbed. On top of its utility in zoning and ledge-trapping, a desynced series of blizzards can simply be used to harass opponents, dealing damage that sticks and often forcing them into an awkward position.

The term blizzwall is fairly intuitive, with "Blizz" being short for "Blizzard", and "wall" referring to its ability to wall out opposing projectiles and attacks.

The blizzwall has served mostly the same purpose and been a staple of high-level play with the duo ever since Melee.

Blizzjab is a technique set up with a jab desync, comboing the jab into a blizzard to start a plethora of strings. It's often used to hard punish a missed tech from the enemy, but it can also be used in neutral, out of parry, and out of shield occasionally.

Kakko a blizzjab set up with a spotdodge.

Side-special-forward-air

Also abbreviated as [Squall](fair), side-special-forward-air is a desynced kill confirm that involves carrying foes to the edge of the stage with a Squall Hammer from the lead climber and spiking them with a forward aerial from the partner climber. While the conversion also works the other way around, and is less dependent on stage positioning that way, it's usually not the preferred alternative, because converting into a cheerless smash or fthrow fair can also be done in such a situation, and KO's much earlier.

2ura

2ura, also known as mura2 or murastar is a desync combo set up with a throw buffer. It starts with the usual down throw, but a well-timed followup desyncs the duo from there. The lead climber comboes their throw into an up aerial which then leads to a forward aerial from their partner. From here, a variety of combo extensions can be performed, and even lead to zero-to-deaths.

Variants

Old Performed by having the partner shield during the leader's conversion and doing a full hop forward air right after the leader's up air connects New During the startup of down throw, the player must hold shield while pushing both sticks up. Once the opponent is thrown (look for when the lead climber retrieves their mallet), the player needs to press the jump button while continuing to maintain the previous inputs. This will cause the leader to buffer an up aerial while the partner jumps without attacking. After the up air connects, release all inputs and have the 2nd climber use forward air.

Trivia

• When performing a cheerless smash, the smash's knockback will sometimes be outprioritized by the throw's knockback if the player has a spirit equipped that boosts throw power.
  • This is most likely due to the throw becoming stronger then the smash attack in terms of damage, and would also explain why up smash can be deprioritized if not charged slightly.