User talk:Rocket1908

Incineroar/Infernape

You aren't listening. You clearly didn't read what I wrote on Talk:Alternate costume (SSBU). Since you insist on edit warring even after I told you to stop, allow me to copy/paste on your talk page what I have written previously, to make sure you read it this time:

Allow me to play Devil's Advocate for a moment. Captain Falcon's third costume is based on Blood Falcon, but Blood Falcon doesn't have bright purple gloves/helmet/boots or a lime green scarf. Link's fourth costume is based on Fierce Deity, but Fierce Deity's tunic/hat are a much, much lighter shade of blue compared to the costume's dark teal. Samus's third costume is based on the Gravity Suit from Super Metroid, but the suit doesn't have a blue visor in that game.

My point? Alternate costumes are rarely 1:1 with their source of inspiration. So, if Incineroar's color palette features an orange that is a bit too bright or a gray that isn't quite the right shade, that's not enough to immediately disqualify it. Looking at the overall costume (especially now that we can see that the feet are also colored dark blue, and keep in mind that this is the only Incineroar alt where the hands and feet are colored differently from the arms and legs; that's pretty significant) it still seems to me that the overall color composition resembles Infernape just a bit too much to dismiss it as a mere coincidence. It's not just what colors are used; it's how they are used.

TL;DR version: It's very rare for alternate costumes to have the exact same color as their sources. The three that I mentioned (Blood Falcon, Fierce Deity, and Super Metroid Gravity Suit) are ones that we know for a fact (i.e. confirmed by Sakurai in prior games) are based upon things that they don't exactly match. If that's the case, then we know from Sakurai himself that an alternate costume just needs to be "close enough", not exactly 1:1 with the original. That doesn't mean "anything goes"; that means "close enough".

Incineroar's orange is brighter than Infernape's brown, and Incineroar's gray is slightly darker than Infernape's white. That is true. But at a quick cursory glance, they look just similar enough, just close enough, that it's not the "end of discussion" that you keep making it out to be. If you can look past that, then the resemblance (that's why we say it "resembles Infernape", not it "perfectly matches Infernape") in the color composition is unmistakably clear, right down to the differently-colored hands and feet. You'd have to be willfully ignorant to ignore it. --PeabodySam (talk) 20:55, 11 December 2018 (EST)

Pretty big difference between the colour of an accessory or a slightly different shade VS orange instead of brown. By your logic, because all 4 colours on the skin are present on Scrafty in similar places (red on the head, orange and yellow body, grey on the head and belly) then the navy blue hands don't matter and the skin is Scrafty. Every skin you mentioned at least had the same primary colours, unlike the alleged Incineroar/Infernape which is, as previously said, orange and not brown. Big difference. So your comparison isn't really equivalent, especially considering that Sakurai hasn't even confirmed the origin of the skin.

Rocket1908 (talk) 21:05, 11 December 2018 (EST)

Reminder: There is a policy in place that prohibits multiple reversions of the same edit. Please refrain from reverting or repeating an edit that has already been undone. Instead, bring the subject up on the article's associated talk page.

Please stop undoing the edits. It is edit warring, please give the policy page a read. Also if you want it in, instead of reverting please discuss the issue on the talk page. Corrin Fan 21:08, 11 December 2018 (EST)

We have discussed this multiple times on the discussion page, and it's obvious that their supposed resemblance is wrong. Why it's allowed to stay up is beyond me. Rocket1908 (talk) 21:12, 11 December 2018 (EST)

From what I have read, you're the only one who disagrees, while the vast majority agrees it's Infernape. Even, if all of a sudden, Sakurai says it's not, you are still violating SW:1RV. Please stop reverting edits. SugarCookie420 (talk) 21:18, 11 December 2018 (EST)

Also, watch the personal attacks. SugarCookie420 (talk) 21:19, 11 December 2018 (EST)

"you are the only one" Did you miss the part where three people reversed it and only two people have supported it? Rocket1908 (talk) 21:21, 11 December 2018 (EST)

Potentially, yes. But that doesn't mean you can just revert it back, especially when warned not to, and as I just said on the talk page, since we haven't reached a consensus yet on the change, the Infernape topic should stay. Just because three other people reversed it does not mean you should. SugarCookie420 (talk) 21:25, 11 December 2018 (EST)

Why should it stay if it's inconclusive? If there isn't a consensus it should be blank. Rocket1908 (talk) 21:28, 11 December 2018 (EST)

Did you really just revert Corrin Fan's edit and continue to edit war, while insisting you weren't edit warring because you "didn't start it"? That's not very mature. By the way, I only count two people (counting yourself) who reverted it versus three (counting myself, and not even counting Corrin Fan or SugarCookie420) who added it, so your math is very much incorrect. Besides, it was on the page for over a week before you started reverting it; during that time, Wazzup made their case on the page's talk page, and Nintendo101 (the only other person who removed the Infernape resemblance) did not argue further after that.

Again, you still aren't reading what I'm writing. Stop arguing against a strawman who is saying "anything goes!" because that is not what I am saying in the slightest. I argued that it wasn't be Scrafty because Scrafty didn't have any dark blue (in any shade), meaning the color palettes were too different, and the overall color composition (the crux of my main argument) more closely resembles Infernape than Scrafty. Does Scrafty have red eyebrows, gray forehead, orange legs, orange tail, blue hands, or blue feet? No. Does Infernape? Almost... but we can make the argument that orange is close enough to light brown and gray is close enough to white (because, as I said, the colors are similar enough at a cursory glance), and then it all fits.

Honestly, since you keep bringing up Scrafty... I almost get the feeling that you're just mad that Wazzup and I didn't agree with you that it looked like Scrafty, and you've decided that "If I can't say which Pokemon it looks like, then nobody can!" Please tell me that I'm wrong about this. --PeabodySam (talk) 21:31, 11 December 2018 (EST)

No. It just isn't infernape. Yeah, you are wrong. I don't care enough to kamikaze the page over something that petty. Hell, even in my original message on the talk page I mentioned that it wasn't Infernape because the body isn't orange, so that has always been my argument. I even conceded the possibility it wasn't Scrafty. Which mind you, is still more likely than it being Infernape purely because the body is actually orange. And the page now accurately reflects that it isn't Infernape, so I don't really care anymore. Rocket1908 (talk) 21:42, 11 December 2018 (EST)

Ok, so I would like to address both sides at the moment.

Rocket: I never said it was inconclusive. All I have seen are people fighting about the color in the talk page, with more people siding with the Infernape argument, leading me to believe that it had always been Infernape on the wiki. As I said before, it was "from what I have read", and if I completely misjudged the situation, I humbly apologize. However, this doesn't ignore the fact that you ignored warnings from other users, continued to violate SW:1RV, and even throwing blame onto others when clearly you were in the fault (which, if you don't understand, is not the Scrafty argument, but the rule violations I had mentioned previously).

Peabody: I understand you are really heated about this situation, but please try to remember our rules. While many people disagree with Rocket, please remember to assume good faith. While Rocket isn't following the rules, he's also a new member and probably doesn't understand the rules to its fullest. I don't believe Rocket really has any malice in his edits other than he wants his point to be in the article, so there's no reason to assume that he's angry at you and Wazzup, since he's most likely frustrated that his edit is consistently getting reverted. Also, from what I have read, you should've left the box blank and talked about the issue in the section before making further edits. SugarCookie420 (talk) 21:44, 11 December 2018 (EST)

You're right, SugarCookie, and I apologize. I'd love to have a civil chat about this with Rocket and Wazzup, but I keep feeling like everything I say in this particular debate is being ignored or misconstrued, at which point it's all too easy to get a little frustrated after spending a lot of time writing my arguments and presenting my evidence. I really do want to assume good faith in people, which is why I sincerely hoped I was wrong about Rocket being bitter about Scrafty. So, I apologize again. --PeabodySam (talk) 22:19, 11 December 2018 (EST)