User talk:Shadow

Ganondorf's down smash

Sorry about the late response, I haven't been on in a couple days.

I do agree with you about the down smash, the two kicks are slow and don't connect reliably. However, down smash is not an awful move. While it's knockback is low (especially for Ganondorf), it still can KO around 140%, which is still more powerful than many of the other down smashes. Most down smashes are not the fighters' main way of KOing, which are usually intended to be weaker, but can damage on both sides of the attacker. In many cases, their main finishers are their forward and up smashes. There are many exceptions of course (Fox's down smash and Zelda's forward and back air come to mind). Instead of KOing, Ganon's down smash is primarily used to punish a dodges, techs, as well as for damaging fighters who just got up from a ledge. The move also doesn't have major end lag, which means that Ganondorf can easily attack the opponent if the move misses Additionally, while the kicks don't reliably land, a large percentage of the time they do. While the move isn't great, it certainly does have its uses. Tell me what you think on my talk page. Thank you! Sausage12 (talk) 17:30, 23 May 2015 (EDT)

Not familiar with all down smashes. Pit and Dark Pit's are worse, that's for sure. Others that I can think of are Marth, Meta Knight, Vilager, and Wii Fit Trainer. So it is certainly among the worst, but not the worst. Sausage12 (talk) 18:24, 24 May 2015 (EDT)

Ganondorf's Worst Moves

I noticed that you included a list of moves which can't KO or combo at realistic percentages. Personally, I like this idea better, whereas before, the moves were called "useless". Some of "bad" moves you included are ok. While down smash is not anywhere near as powerful as his other smash attacks, it can still KO at realistic high percents (I'm sure it's under 175%). Due to down throws low knock back, it can KO at lower percentages, Wizard's Foot is by no means a bad move since it has decent range and damage, and can be used as follow up to other moves. The other attacks in his move set are pretty bad though. Sausage12 (talk) 11:30, 25 July 2015 (EDT)

You're right, Wizards Foot does not KO. However, down smash is still one of the more powerful down smashes in the game (Top 1/3), and down throw can combo into dash attack, up smash, and sometimes even a Wizards Foot. Sausage12 (talk) 22:47, 25 July 2015 (EDT)

I really like your dedication.

I am also a Ganon main (just in case it was not obvious), and I admire your dedication to the character. Ganonmew, The Evil Clone 16:32, 2 October 2015 (EDT)

Minor nitpick

You said that KOing around 100% would be extreme for a frame 25 up tilt. Meta Knight's forward smash was a frame 24 move that could KO around 100%, and everyone said it was a terrible move. Ganonmew, The Thankful Evil Clone 06:45, 4 November 2015 (EST)

Ganondorf PM F-air

The headline on his page specifically states Changes from Melee to PM. You might be right about the n-air not having the later hitboxes, but the f-air's properties have absolutely been changed from Melee. It does have less endlag, to the point where you can even auto-cancel it from a short hop. You cannot do that in Melee. You also can't hit below the floor and platforms with it in Melee, but you can in PM due to the bigger hitbox. I don't believe that Melee had any different hitbox strengths depending on distance, but like Brawl, they do, and they only vary slightly compared to Brawl. Smashgold347238 (talk) 20:08, 8 December 2015 (EST)

I looked at the frame data for Melee and Project M, both say their IASA are frame 35 along with auto canceling at frame 34. However, I no longer have either game in my possession to run tests. Shadow (talk) 03:33, 9 December 2015 (EST)

You can see even in the GIFs that the PM hitbox is much larger. It stretches down beside his whole leg in PM, whereas it only reaches his knee in Melee. Smashgold347238 (talk) 15:01, 9 December 2015 (EST)

Alright, so apparently, the game engines in Melee and PM are slightly different. You can air dodge out of IASA frames in PM, but not Melee, and in Melee, inputting an aerial on the first airborne frame reduces your short hop height, which doesn't happen in PM. I'll move this difference to the main PM page then. Smashgold347238 (talk) 19:03, 10 December 2015 (EST)