User:Toomai/Cloneosity: Difference between revisions
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m (from -3 to -U heads) |
(here comes Roy (remember, this is all just my opinion)) |
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:''A character whose moveset is mostly visually identical to another character's, with a few unique moves, tweaks to physics and shared moves, and special moves of similar if not identical operation.'' | :''A character whose moveset is mostly visually identical to another character's, with a few unique moves, tweaks to physics and shared moves, and special moves of similar if not identical operation.'' | ||
If this definition holds true, we should be able to count up how many moves that a pair of characters share similar animations for (regardless of the attacks' properties, as that's the main way to differentiate clones) in order to determine how much of a clone they are. | If this definition holds true, we should be able to count up how many moves that a pair of characters share similar animations for (regardless of the attacks' properties, as that's the main way to differentiate clones) in order to determine how much of a clone they are. | ||
(Note that, because SSB4's DLC characters aren't set up this way, we can't really know the devs' call for them. ) | |||
==Counts== | ==Counts== | ||
Notes: | Notes: | ||
| Line 152: | Line 154: | ||
|1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1 | |1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1 | ||
|23/23||100.0% | |23/23||100.0% | ||
|- | |||
|Marth||Roy | |||
|1/2||0||1||1||1||0||1||1||1||1||1||1||0||1||1||1||1||1||0.25<sup>2</sup>||1||1||1||0.25<sup>3</sup> | |||
|18/23||78.3% | |||
|- | |- | ||
|Pit||Dark Pit | |Pit||Dark Pit | ||
| Line 158: | Line 164: | ||
|} | |} | ||
#Mostly the same motion, but at a different angle and without the first hitbox. | #Mostly the same motion, but at a different angle and without the first hitbox. | ||
#Very difficult to call, since Marth's changed in animation in Roy's Brawl absence, but the fundamental move is the same. | |||
#As far as Final Smashes go, Roy's is more like Meta Knight's than Marth's, but the name and FE lifebar thing shows clear intent to be similar. | |||
<nowiki>*</nowiki> Won't be included in the analysis section (it's not a valid clone pair), but it's still interesting to note. | <nowiki>*</nowiki> Won't be included in the analysis section (it's not a valid clone pair), but it's still interesting to note. | ||
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{|class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" | {|class="wikitable" style="text-align:center" | ||
|- | |- | ||
!colspan=3|Non-clone!!colspan= | !colspan=3|Non-clone!!colspan=11|Semi-clone!!colspan=6|Clone | ||
|- | |- | ||
|style="background:#91ff7f;"|7.3%<br/>{{head|Ike|g=SSBB|s=20x20px}}<br/>{{head|Marth|g=SSBB|s=20x20px}} | |style="background:#91ff7f;"|7.3%<br/>{{head|Ike|g=SSBB|s=20x20px}}<br/>{{head|Marth|g=SSBB|s=20x20px}} | ||
| Line 180: | Line 188: | ||
|style="background:#ffc17f;"|73.9%<br/>{{head|Toon Link|g=SSBB|s=20x20px}}{{head|Ganondorf|g=SSBB|s=20x20px}}<br/>{{head|Link|g=SSBB|s=20x20px}}{{head|Captain Falcon|g=SSBB|s=20x20px}} | |style="background:#ffc17f;"|73.9%<br/>{{head|Toon Link|g=SSBB|s=20x20px}}{{head|Ganondorf|g=SSBB|s=20x20px}}<br/>{{head|Link|g=SSBB|s=20x20px}}{{head|Captain Falcon|g=SSBB|s=20x20px}} | ||
|style="background:#ffba7f;"|76.8%<br/>{{head|Falco|g=SSBB|s=20x20px}}<br/>{{head|Fox|g=SSBB|s=20x20px}} | |style="background:#ffba7f;"|76.8%<br/>{{head|Falco|g=SSBB|s=20x20px}}<br/>{{head|Fox|g=SSBB|s=20x20px}} | ||
|style="background:#ffb17f;"|78.3%<br/>{{head|Roy|g=SSB4|s=20x20px}}<br/>{{head|Marth|g=SSB4|s=20x20px}} | |||
|style="background:#ff967f;"|90.9%<br/>{{head|Ganondorf|g=SSBM|s=20x20px}}<br/>{{head|Captain Falcon|g=SSBM|s=20x20px}} | |style="background:#ff967f;"|90.9%<br/>{{head|Ganondorf|g=SSBM|s=20x20px}}<br/>{{head|Captain Falcon|g=SSBM|s=20x20px}} | ||
|style="background:#ff957f;"|91.3%<br/>{{head|Dr. Mario|g=SSB4|s=20x20px}}<br/>{{head|Mario|g=SSB4|s=20x20px}} | |style="background:#ff957f;"|91.3%<br/>{{head|Dr. Mario|g=SSB4|s=20x20px}}<br/>{{head|Mario|g=SSB4|s=20x20px}} | ||
| Line 188: | Line 197: | ||
|- | |- | ||
|colspan=3|0%-30% | |colspan=3|0%-30% | ||
|colspan= | |colspan=11|40%-80% | ||
|colspan=6|90%-100% | |colspan=6|90%-100% | ||
|} | |} | ||
So as it stands now, you need to share ~40% of attack animations to be a semi-clone and ~90% to be a full clone. There are currently gaps between 30%-40% and 80%-90%, so if any future comparisons end up in there, things get more precise (and controversial). | So as it stands now, you need to share ~40% of attack animations to be a semi-clone and ~90% to be a full clone. There are currently gaps between 30%-40% and 80%-90%, so if any future comparisons end up in there, things get more precise (and controversial). | ||
Revision as of 10:28, June 16, 2015
On this page I'll iterate over exactly how much of a clone everyone is.
Definition of "clone"
Luckily for us, both Melee and SSB4 have developer confirmation of who the clones are, and thus what they consider a clone to be. By their definition, no characters are clones except for those on this list:
- Dr. Mario (SSBM)
- Young Link (SSBM)
- Ganondorf (SSBM)
- Falco (SSBM)
- Pichu (SSBM)
- Roy (SSBM)
- Dr. Mario (SSB4)
- Lucina (SSB4)
- Dark Pit (SSB4)
I think it is fair to say that as a result of this distinction, we can codify the following as a wordy definition for "clone":
- A character whose moveset is mostly visually identical to another character's, with a few unique moves, tweaks to physics and shared moves, and special moves of similar if not identical operation.
If this definition holds true, we should be able to count up how many moves that a pair of characters share similar animations for (regardless of the attacks' properties, as that's the main way to differentiate clones) in order to determine how much of a clone they are.
(Note that, because SSB4's DLC characters aren't set up this way, we can't really know the devs' call for them. )
Counts
Notes:
- Floor and edge attacks are not counted. I see no reason to include them when they're unlikely to be part of a character's main design process.
- Taunts are also not counted, because there are no clone taunts even amongst the clones. If there were, that would be a huge penalty, given how taunts are trivial compared to attacks.
- Generally I try to give characters the benefit of the doubt (e.g. Falco's Brawl Reflector is not a clone of Fox's), but if the animation has only changed in speed, or the hitboxes have moved yet the animation is unchanged, no dice.
- I included a few dumb pairs (like Marth/Ike) to both show how wrong some people are and to gather some data for obvious non-clones.
- If you think I got something wrong, go to the talk page.
Maybe I should upload more control stick images (which I already have made) so I can use their images in these tables.
SSB64
| Original | Possible clone | Ntr | Ftl | Utl | Dtl | DAtk | Fsmh | Usmh | Dsmh | Narl | Farl | Barl | Uarl | Darl | Fthw | Bthw | NS | US | DS | Total | % |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Mario | Luigi | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.51 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 16.5/18 | 91.6% |
| Samus | Captain Falcon | 1/3 | 0.5 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5.33/18 | 29.6% |
| Kirby | Jigglypuff | 2/3 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0.5 | 1 | 0.5 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 9.67/18 | 53.7% |
- I can't really call this a 1, but it doesn't feel like a 0 either. Same with most of the other 0.5s.
SSBM
| Original | Possible clone | Ntr | Ftl | Utl | Dtl | DAtk | Fsmh | Usmh | Dsmh | Narl | Farl | Barl | Uarl | Darl | Pml | Fthw | Bthw | Uthw | Dthw | NS | SS | US | DS | Total | % |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Mario | Luigi | 2/3 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 15.67/22 | 71.2% |
| Mario | Dr. Mario | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 22/22 | 100.0% |
| Link | Young Link | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 22/22 | 100.0% |
| Fox | Falco | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 22/22 | 100.0% |
| Pikachu | Pichu | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 21/22 | 95.4% |
| Captain Falcon | Ganondorf | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 20/22 | 90.9% |
| Marth | Roy | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 22/22 | 100.0% |
SSBB
| Original | Possible clone | Ntr | Ftl | Utl | Dtl | DAtk | Fsmh | Usmh | Dsmh | Narl | Farl | Barl | Uarl | Darl | Pml | Fthw | Bthw | Uthw | Dthw | NS | SS | US | DS | FS | Total | % |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Mario | Luigi | 2/3 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 13.67/23 | 59.4% |
| Link | Toon Link | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 17/23 | 73.9% |
| Fox | Falco | 2/3 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 17.67/23 | 76.8% |
| Fox | Wolf | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.51 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 6.5/23 | 28.2% |
| Captain Falcon | Ganondorf | 0 | 0.52 | 1 | 0.52 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 17/23 | 73.9% |
| Ness | Lucas | 1/3 | 0 | 0 | 0.52 | 0.52 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 10.33/23 | 44.9% |
| Marth | Ike | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.5 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.2 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1.7/23 | 7.3% |
- Can't be rapid-fired (less cloned), but is still an energy blast from a futuristic gun. Undecided.
- Still the same basic attack, but executed differently. Could go either way.
SSB4
Having different customizations weakens a special move's clone score by 0.25 (the default move is still a clone). I'm not 100% on this as-is, but I do feel that having different customs should count for something.
| Original | Possible clone | Ntr | Ftl | Utl | Dtl | DAtk | Fsmh | Usmh | Dsmh | Narl | Farl | Barl | Uarl | Darl | Pml | Fthw | Bthw | Uthw | Dthw | NS | SS | US | DS | FS | Total | % |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Mario | Luigi | 2/3 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 2/3 | 0 | 0.75 | 0 | 0 | 12.083/23 | 52.5% |
| Mario | Dr. Mario | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 21/23 | 91.3% |
| Luigi | Dr. Mario | 2/3 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 2/3 | 0 | 0.75 | 1 | 0 | 14.083/23 | 61.2%* |
| Link | Toon Link | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0.75 | 0.75 | 0.75 | 0.75 | 1 | 15/23 | 65.2% |
| Fox | Falco | 2/3 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0.51 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.75 | 0.75 | 0.75 | 0 | 1 | 16.4167/23 | 71.4% |
| Captain Falcon | Ganondorf | 0 | 0.5 | 1 | 0.5 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.75 | 0 | 0.75 | 0.75 | 0 | 16.25/23 | 70.7% |
| Marth | Lucina | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 23/23 | 100.0% |
| Marth | Roy | 1/2 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.252 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.253 | 18/23 | 78.3% |
| Pit | Dark Pit | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 22/23 | 95.6% |
- Mostly the same motion, but at a different angle and without the first hitbox.
- Very difficult to call, since Marth's changed in animation in Roy's Brawl absence, but the fundamental move is the same.
- As far as Final Smashes go, Roy's is more like Meta Knight's than Marth's, but the name and FE lifebar thing shows clear intent to be similar.
* Won't be included in the analysis section (it's not a valid clone pair), but it's still interesting to note.
Analysis
By taking the data at face value, we actually get pretty nice categories that match what the devs seem to have intended.
| Non-clone | Semi-clone | Clone | |||||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
7.3% 
|
28.2% 
|
29.6% 
|
44.9% 
|
52.5% 
|
53.7% 
|
59.4% 
|
65.2% 
|
70.7% 
|
71.2% 
|
71.4% 
|
73.9%   
|
76.8%
|
78.3% 
|
90.9% 
|
91.3%
|
91.6% 
|
95.4% 
|
95.6% 
|
100.0%       
|
| 0%-30% | 40%-80% | 90%-100% | |||||||||||||||||
So as it stands now, you need to share ~40% of attack animations to be a semi-clone and ~90% to be a full clone. There are currently gaps between 30%-40% and 80%-90%, so if any future comparisons end up in there, things get more precise (and controversial).
