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I'll be using this sandbox to put some random stuff, saved drafts on articles, etc. | I'll be using this sandbox to put some random stuff, saved drafts on articles, etc. | ||
= | =Melee vs. Brawl= | ||
'' | '''''Melee'' vs. ''Brawl''''' is the name given to the continuous debate in the [[community|Smash community]] over the two largest games: ''[[Super Smash Bros. Melee]]'' and ''[[Super Smash Bros. Brawl]]''. | ||
'' | ==Criticisms of differences in gameplay in ''Brawl''== | ||
''Melee'' and ''Brawl'' have many differences in their gameplay, and many of these gameplay differences have been criticized by players of the games. Many ''Melee'' players in particular have become notoriously vocal about their criticisms of ''Brawl'''s gameplay, claiming that many changes in ''Brawl''{{'}}s physics have caused it to become subpar to ''Melee'' for competitive play. | |||
''' | |||
''Brawl'' has been categorized as a more defensive-based and slow-paced game as a whole than its predecessor for many reasons, and this has been received with much criticism by members of the community. One of the most heavily criticized changes is the change in [[hitstun]] mechanics. ''Melee''{{'}}s physics causes launched characters to remain in hitstun for a significant period of time that increases with damage percentage, which allows unescapable followups for characters when they launch their opponents with low to moderate [[knockback]]. Due to ''Melee''{{'}}s fairly large amounts of hitstun, characters can frequently perform guaranteed [[combo]]s that deal 40-50%, often reaching 70 or 80% or higher. However, in ''Brawl'', players can act out of hitstun much sooner than in ''Melee'', being able to perform an [[air dodge]] after 13 [[frame]]s of hitstun and an [[aerial attack]] after 25 frames of hitstun. This allows players to react to their opponent's actions while being launched and potentially escape combos. The reduced hitstun makes true combos rare, and almost all hits that do not deal beyond very low knockback cannot combo well. ''Brawl'''s reduced hitstun can allow a player to [[punish]] their opponent after being hit with an attack with high [[ending lag]], and allows [[momentum cancelling]], which can cause players to survive to higher percentages than they normally would in a match. The reduced histun in ''Brawl'' is seen as a negative addition to the game by the large of majority of ''Melee'' players, and many ''Brawl'' players also agree with pro-''Melee'' players that increased hitstun would be a positive addition to the game. | |||
''' | |||
''' | |||
Offensive tactics that allow for [[damage]] and [[pressure]] are seen as too weak in ''Brawl'' by many ''Melee'' players, while the [[shield]] and other defensive maneuvers are seen as too strong by these players. ''Brawl'' saw the removal of many features that were crucial to the gameplay of ''Melee'', and the removal of these features is seen by pro-''Melee'' players as limiting the offensive options a character can perform. [[L-cancelling]] does not exist in ''Brawl'' as it does in ''Melee'', and as a result, players are forced to wait out the full [[landing lag]] time of their non-[[autocancel]]led aerial attacks, making low-height aerials less safe to use. Players can no longer control the direction of an [[air dodge]] in ''Brawl'', making [[wavedashing]] impossible; this is criticized by ''Melee'' players as limiting the [[approach]] options of characters on the ground. In ''Brawl'', after grabbing a ledge, players must wait for a period of time before being able to perform an action, which is seen as limiting characters' options on the ledge. Pro-''Melee'' players argue that the removal of options such as wavedashing and L-cancelling, as well as the lack of combos and rewards for approaching, promotes [[camping]] and a more defensive-based playstyle, which is seen as less exciting than the more aggressive play of ''Melee''. A major criticism of ''Brawl'' is that the shield is seen as too powerful; [[shieldstun]] is descreased in ''Brawl'', and the [[powershield]] window is increased to 4 frames, weakening the effectiveness of shield pressure, allowing players to act [[out of shield]] faster, and increasing the chance for attacking players to be punished. The air dodge also no longer puts players into a [[helpless state]], allowing them to attack following an air dodge or air dodge consecutively. This is criticized by pro-''Melee'' players for weakening the power of an attacking player challenging an opponent in the air or offstage. These changes to ''Brawl'' are seen as benefiting the player playing defensively while harming the player fighting offensively, while many players argue that the offensive player should be more greatly rewarded for approaching and taking risks. | |||
''Brawl'' is additionally criticized for being a much slower-paced game than ''Melee''. The aformentioned loss of L-cancelling and wavedashing, as well as a more defensively-based playstyle, has caused ''Brawl'' to have a generally slower attack rate than ''Melee'', causing many members of the community to consider ''Melee'' a more intense and exciting game than ''Brawl''. The [[falling speed]]s and [[gravity|acceleration rates]] of characters are slower than in ''Melee'', as every [[veteran]] has a slower falling speed in ''Brawl'' than in ''Melee''; this has been criticized for preventing mixups and [[mindgame]]s by limiting the ability to transfer from the air to the ground quickly. It is also seen as improving [[recovery|recoveries]], and ''Brawl'' has been criticized by ''Melee'' players for making recovery too easy (especially since air dodging no longer puts the user into a helpless state) and limiting the effectiveness of [[edgeguarding]]. | |||
On a more universal scale, [[tripping|random tripping]] is a mechanic introduced to ''Brawl'' that is disliked by both ''Melee'' and ''Brawl'' players; the 1% chance of tripping randomly when initiating a [[dash]] is seen as a hinderance to competitive play. Random tripping is seen as a mechanic that unfairly punishes a player by causing them to lose their momentum in a match and be put in a vulnerable [[tech-chase]] position, even if the player made no [[technical error]]s or mistakes. A random trip can cause a player to lose a punish opportunity or an advantageous position on the stage, or even get punished themselves while they're vulnerable, which can lead to significant damage, being put in a dangerous position (such as offstage or in the air), or potentially KOed. | |||
Differences in gameplay between the two games can be observed; long-lasting combos are frequently performed in ''Melee'', while combos in ''Brawl'' are generally only performed at very low percents, and at moderate to high percents, damage is mostly built from single attacks. Defensive options such as the shield are more frequently utilized in ''Brawl'', and camping is a larger part of the ''Brawl'' metagame than in ''Melee''. Since damage buildup is slower than in ''Brawl'', KOs occur much slower in ''Brawl'' than ''Melee'', and three-stock ''Brawl'' matches usually take longer than four-stock ''Melee'' matches. The more fast-paced ''Melee'' is regarded by many players as more interesting to watch than ''Brawl'', and ''Brawl'' is frequently criticized for the sizable amount of [[time-out]]s that occur in matches, while in ''Melee'', time-outs almost never occur. The ''Brawl'' metagame is widely criticized for the overwhelming dominance of {{SSBB|Meta Knight}}, as well as the {{SSBB|Ice Climbers}}' infinite [[chaingrab]]s in top-level play; these characters are frequently seen as making the game "boring" by both ''Melee'' and ''Brawl'' players. Conversely, some ''Melee'' and ''Brawl'' players have criticized the ''Melee'' scene for the dominance of {{SSBM|Fox}} and other [[top tier]] characters; Fox's dominance in the ''Melee'' scene has become [[20XX|an internet meme]] as well. While many ''Melee'' players claim that ''Brawl'' is an inferior game to ''Melee'', others argue that ''Melee'' requires more technical skill demands than ''Brawl'', but ''Brawl'' is just more focused on [[mindgame|cerebral skill]] than ''Melee''. | |||
''Criticisms of both Brawl by Melee players and Melee by Brawl players'' | |||
==Differences in communities== | |||
The ''Melee'' community is notorious for viewing ''Melee'' on a much higher level than the other Smash games. There are many ''Melee'' community members who are considered to be overly vocal about their criticisms of ''Brawl'', and most high-level ''Brawl'' videos on [[YouTube]] are filled with comments criticizing ''Brawl'' for its lack of combos, slow, floaty, and "boring" gameplay, excessive camping, and over-dominance of {{SSBB|Meta Knight}} and the {{SSBB|Ice Climbers}}. These highly vocal ''Melee'' players are criticized by both ''Melee'' and ''Brawl'' community members for being unnecessarily hostile to ''Brawl'', arguing that it gives the ''Melee'' community a bad public image and reputation. The ''Brawl'' community, while currently smaller than the ''Melee'', are much less vocal about their criticisms of ''Melee'', and believe that the changes from ''Melee'' to ''Brawl'' do not make the latter a "worse" game, but that ''Brawl''{{'}}s changes can suit different players' preferences. The ''Brawl'' community tends to have more appreciation for the whole Smash series, and tend to support growth and development in any Smash game. ''Brawl'' players generally argue that unity between between all of the games will help the entire Smash franchise grow and develop. However, the players within the ''Brawl'' community are generally less unified, and are often criticized for being overly negative. | |||
''Differences between people in the Melee and Brawl communities'' | |||
==History== | |||
When ''Super Smash Bros. Melee'' was released in 2001, it was the first Smash game to have a large tournament scene. The game was more well-received than the original ''Super Smash Bros.'' by both casual and serious players, due to its larger character roster and the general lack of guaranteed [[zero-to-death combo]]s compared to ''Smash 64''. Local tournaments were hosted frequently throughout the Americas, Europe, and Australia and New Zealand, but [[Tournament Go 6]] in 2004 was the first tournament that brought competition from a much wider geographical area, attracting competition from the whole United States. The ''Melee'' tournament scene remained largely grassroots-based until 2005, when [[Major League Gaming]] picked up ''Melee'' for its 2005 and 2006 Pro Circuit; representation in MLG and other large gaming organizations, such as [[EVO]], caused the ''Melee'' community to enjoy large growth and success. | |||
The release of ''Super Smash Bros. Brawl'' in 2008 was expected to cause a decline in the ''Melee'' competitive scene, leaving doubts about the game's future viability; some community members thought the game's tournament activity would die off completely. As expected, after ''Brawl''{{'}}s release, almost all players switched to focusing on ''Brawl'' for a period of time, and the ''Melee'' scene became dormant for the rest of 2008; no major ''Melee'' tournaments were hosted until a year after ''Brawl''{{'}}s release. Local and national ''Brawl'' tournaments saw high attendance (topping 100 entrants even in locals), and ''Brawl'' was featured at EVO in 2008 and 2009, and added to MLG's Pro Circuit in 2010. | |||
After extensively playing ''Brawl'', many former ''Melee'' players disliked new changes such as altered hitstun mechanics, generally slower movement and falling speeds, a more camp-oriented style, and the removal of advanced techniques such as wavedashing and L-canceling. These players preferred ''Melee'' to ''Brawl'' and wanted an increase in the ''Melee'' tournament scene; in response, the ''Melee'' scene slowly began to pick up again in early 2009, and [[Revival of Melee]] was the first major gathering of top ''Melee'' players since ''Brawl''{{'}}s release. Unlike before ''Brawl''{{'}}s release, ''Melee''{{'}}s competitive scene returned to being grassroots-based while ''Brawl'' was picked up by MLG and EVO, and ''Brawl'' saw a larger competitive scene than ''Melee'' until around early 2011, when MLG no longer added ''Brawl'' to their Pro Circuit. From 2011 to early 2013, the ''Melee'' and ''Brawl'' scenes saw relatively even tournament activity. | |||
However, in 2013, ''Melee'' was featured as a fighting game at [[EVO 2013]]. The tournament saw over 700 entrants and was the largest Smash tournament ever at the time. | |||
''''How the competitive scene has developed over time in Melee and Brawl, and maybe 64 and PM as well'' | |||
Latest revision as of 22:20, September 9, 2014
I'll be using this sandbox to put some random stuff, saved drafts on articles, etc.
Melee vs. Brawl[edit]
Melee vs. Brawl is the name given to the continuous debate in the Smash community over the two largest games: Super Smash Bros. Melee and Super Smash Bros. Brawl.
Criticisms of differences in gameplay in Brawl[edit]
Melee and Brawl have many differences in their gameplay, and many of these gameplay differences have been criticized by players of the games. Many Melee players in particular have become notoriously vocal about their criticisms of Brawl's gameplay, claiming that many changes in Brawl's physics have caused it to become subpar to Melee for competitive play.
Brawl has been categorized as a more defensive-based and slow-paced game as a whole than its predecessor for many reasons, and this has been received with much criticism by members of the community. One of the most heavily criticized changes is the change in hitstun mechanics. Melee's physics causes launched characters to remain in hitstun for a significant period of time that increases with damage percentage, which allows unescapable followups for characters when they launch their opponents with low to moderate knockback. Due to Melee's fairly large amounts of hitstun, characters can frequently perform guaranteed combos that deal 40-50%, often reaching 70 or 80% or higher. However, in Brawl, players can act out of hitstun much sooner than in Melee, being able to perform an air dodge after 13 frames of hitstun and an aerial attack after 25 frames of hitstun. This allows players to react to their opponent's actions while being launched and potentially escape combos. The reduced hitstun makes true combos rare, and almost all hits that do not deal beyond very low knockback cannot combo well. Brawl's reduced hitstun can allow a player to punish their opponent after being hit with an attack with high ending lag, and allows momentum cancelling, which can cause players to survive to higher percentages than they normally would in a match. The reduced histun in Brawl is seen as a negative addition to the game by the large of majority of Melee players, and many Brawl players also agree with pro-Melee players that increased hitstun would be a positive addition to the game.
Offensive tactics that allow for damage and pressure are seen as too weak in Brawl by many Melee players, while the shield and other defensive maneuvers are seen as too strong by these players. Brawl saw the removal of many features that were crucial to the gameplay of Melee, and the removal of these features is seen by pro-Melee players as limiting the offensive options a character can perform. L-cancelling does not exist in Brawl as it does in Melee, and as a result, players are forced to wait out the full landing lag time of their non-autocancelled aerial attacks, making low-height aerials less safe to use. Players can no longer control the direction of an air dodge in Brawl, making wavedashing impossible; this is criticized by Melee players as limiting the approach options of characters on the ground. In Brawl, after grabbing a ledge, players must wait for a period of time before being able to perform an action, which is seen as limiting characters' options on the ledge. Pro-Melee players argue that the removal of options such as wavedashing and L-cancelling, as well as the lack of combos and rewards for approaching, promotes camping and a more defensive-based playstyle, which is seen as less exciting than the more aggressive play of Melee. A major criticism of Brawl is that the shield is seen as too powerful; shieldstun is descreased in Brawl, and the powershield window is increased to 4 frames, weakening the effectiveness of shield pressure, allowing players to act out of shield faster, and increasing the chance for attacking players to be punished. The air dodge also no longer puts players into a helpless state, allowing them to attack following an air dodge or air dodge consecutively. This is criticized by pro-Melee players for weakening the power of an attacking player challenging an opponent in the air or offstage. These changes to Brawl are seen as benefiting the player playing defensively while harming the player fighting offensively, while many players argue that the offensive player should be more greatly rewarded for approaching and taking risks.
Brawl is additionally criticized for being a much slower-paced game than Melee. The aformentioned loss of L-cancelling and wavedashing, as well as a more defensively-based playstyle, has caused Brawl to have a generally slower attack rate than Melee, causing many members of the community to consider Melee a more intense and exciting game than Brawl. The falling speeds and acceleration rates of characters are slower than in Melee, as every veteran has a slower falling speed in Brawl than in Melee; this has been criticized for preventing mixups and mindgames by limiting the ability to transfer from the air to the ground quickly. It is also seen as improving recoveries, and Brawl has been criticized by Melee players for making recovery too easy (especially since air dodging no longer puts the user into a helpless state) and limiting the effectiveness of edgeguarding.
On a more universal scale, random tripping is a mechanic introduced to Brawl that is disliked by both Melee and Brawl players; the 1% chance of tripping randomly when initiating a dash is seen as a hinderance to competitive play. Random tripping is seen as a mechanic that unfairly punishes a player by causing them to lose their momentum in a match and be put in a vulnerable tech-chase position, even if the player made no technical errors or mistakes. A random trip can cause a player to lose a punish opportunity or an advantageous position on the stage, or even get punished themselves while they're vulnerable, which can lead to significant damage, being put in a dangerous position (such as offstage or in the air), or potentially KOed.
Differences in gameplay between the two games can be observed; long-lasting combos are frequently performed in Melee, while combos in Brawl are generally only performed at very low percents, and at moderate to high percents, damage is mostly built from single attacks. Defensive options such as the shield are more frequently utilized in Brawl, and camping is a larger part of the Brawl metagame than in Melee. Since damage buildup is slower than in Brawl, KOs occur much slower in Brawl than Melee, and three-stock Brawl matches usually take longer than four-stock Melee matches. The more fast-paced Melee is regarded by many players as more interesting to watch than Brawl, and Brawl is frequently criticized for the sizable amount of time-outs that occur in matches, while in Melee, time-outs almost never occur. The Brawl metagame is widely criticized for the overwhelming dominance of Meta Knight, as well as the Ice Climbers' infinite chaingrabs in top-level play; these characters are frequently seen as making the game "boring" by both Melee and Brawl players. Conversely, some Melee and Brawl players have criticized the Melee scene for the dominance of Fox and other top tier characters; Fox's dominance in the Melee scene has become an internet meme as well. While many Melee players claim that Brawl is an inferior game to Melee, others argue that Melee requires more technical skill demands than Brawl, but Brawl is just more focused on cerebral skill than Melee.
Criticisms of both Brawl by Melee players and Melee by Brawl players
Differences in communities[edit]
The Melee community is notorious for viewing Melee on a much higher level than the other Smash games. There are many Melee community members who are considered to be overly vocal about their criticisms of Brawl, and most high-level Brawl videos on YouTube are filled with comments criticizing Brawl for its lack of combos, slow, floaty, and "boring" gameplay, excessive camping, and over-dominance of Meta Knight and the Ice Climbers. These highly vocal Melee players are criticized by both Melee and Brawl community members for being unnecessarily hostile to Brawl, arguing that it gives the Melee community a bad public image and reputation. The Brawl community, while currently smaller than the Melee, are much less vocal about their criticisms of Melee, and believe that the changes from Melee to Brawl do not make the latter a "worse" game, but that Brawl's changes can suit different players' preferences. The Brawl community tends to have more appreciation for the whole Smash series, and tend to support growth and development in any Smash game. Brawl players generally argue that unity between between all of the games will help the entire Smash franchise grow and develop. However, the players within the Brawl community are generally less unified, and are often criticized for being overly negative. Differences between people in the Melee and Brawl communities
History[edit]
When Super Smash Bros. Melee was released in 2001, it was the first Smash game to have a large tournament scene. The game was more well-received than the original Super Smash Bros. by both casual and serious players, due to its larger character roster and the general lack of guaranteed zero-to-death combos compared to Smash 64. Local tournaments were hosted frequently throughout the Americas, Europe, and Australia and New Zealand, but Tournament Go 6 in 2004 was the first tournament that brought competition from a much wider geographical area, attracting competition from the whole United States. The Melee tournament scene remained largely grassroots-based until 2005, when Major League Gaming picked up Melee for its 2005 and 2006 Pro Circuit; representation in MLG and other large gaming organizations, such as EVO, caused the Melee community to enjoy large growth and success.
The release of Super Smash Bros. Brawl in 2008 was expected to cause a decline in the Melee competitive scene, leaving doubts about the game's future viability; some community members thought the game's tournament activity would die off completely. As expected, after Brawl's release, almost all players switched to focusing on Brawl for a period of time, and the Melee scene became dormant for the rest of 2008; no major Melee tournaments were hosted until a year after Brawl's release. Local and national Brawl tournaments saw high attendance (topping 100 entrants even in locals), and Brawl was featured at EVO in 2008 and 2009, and added to MLG's Pro Circuit in 2010.
After extensively playing Brawl, many former Melee players disliked new changes such as altered hitstun mechanics, generally slower movement and falling speeds, a more camp-oriented style, and the removal of advanced techniques such as wavedashing and L-canceling. These players preferred Melee to Brawl and wanted an increase in the Melee tournament scene; in response, the Melee scene slowly began to pick up again in early 2009, and Revival of Melee was the first major gathering of top Melee players since Brawl's release. Unlike before Brawl's release, Melee's competitive scene returned to being grassroots-based while Brawl was picked up by MLG and EVO, and Brawl saw a larger competitive scene than Melee until around early 2011, when MLG no longer added Brawl to their Pro Circuit. From 2011 to early 2013, the Melee and Brawl scenes saw relatively even tournament activity.
However, in 2013, Melee was featured as a fighting game at EVO 2013. The tournament saw over 700 entrants and was the largest Smash tournament ever at the time.
''How the competitive scene has developed over time in Melee and Brawl, and maybe 64 and PM as well
