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| {{cleanup|needs to be less ripped from Wikipedia, and it should be mentioned that Wikipedia was used when "writing" this article - also, more info on stuff from the ''Smash'' series would be nice}}
| | #REDIRECT [[Pokémon (disambiguation)]] |
| [[Image:English Pokemon logo.png|frame|The official ''Pokémon'' logo.]] | |
| '''Pokémon''' (ポケモン ''Pokémon'') is a [[Wikipedia:Media franchise|media franchise]] owned by [[Nintendo]] and created by [[Wikipedia:Satoshi Tajiri|Satoshi Tajiri]] around 1995. Originally released as a pair of interlinkable [[Wikipedia:Game Boy line|Game Boy]] [[Wikipedia:Console role-playing game|role-playing]] video games, ''Pokémon'' has since become the second most successful and lucrative video game-based media franchise in the world, falling only behind [[Nintendo]]'s [[Mario (series)|''Mario'' series]].<ref name="UK paper names top game franchises ">{{Cite web |url=http://www.gamespot.com/news/6164012.html |title=UK paper names top game franchises |accessdate=2007-02-26|last=Boyes |first=Emma |date=2007-01-10 |work=GameSpot |publisher=GameSpot UK}}</ref> Pokémon properties have since been merchandised into [[Wikipedia:Anime|anime]], [[Wikipedia:Manga|manga]], [[Wikipedia:Collectible card game|trading cards]], toys, books, and other media. The franchise celebrated its tenth anniversary on February 27, 2006, and as of December 1, 2006, cumulative sold units of the video games (including home console versions, such as the "Pikachu" [[Nintendo 64]]) have reached more than 155 million copies.<ref name="sales release 12 01 2006">{{Cite web |url=http://www.n-sider.com/newsview.php?type=story&storyid=2543 |title=Nintendo sales through end of November revealed |accessdate=2006-12-01 |last=Behrens |first=Matt |date=2006-12-01 |work=N-Sider |publisher=N-Sider Media}}</ref>
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| The name ''Pokémon'' is the [[Wikipedia:Romanization of Japanese|romanized]] [[Wikipedia:contraction (grammar)|contraction]] of the Japanese brand, ('''ポケ'''ット'''モン'''スター '''Poke'''tto '''Mon'''sutā),<ref name="The Pokemon Series Pokedex @ Gaming Target">{{Cite web |url=http://www.gamingtarget.com/article.php?artid=6531 |title=The Pokemon Series Pokedex @ Gaming Target |accessdate=2007-02-28 |last=Swider |first=Matt |work=Gaming Target |publisher=Gaming Target}}</ref> as such contractions are very common in Japan. The term "Pokémon", in addition to referring to the ''Pokémon'' franchise itself, also collectively refers to the 507 [[Wikipedia:List of Pokémon|Pokémon species]] that have made appearances in ''Pokémon'' media as of the most recent ''Pokémon'' role-playing games (RPGs) for the [[Wikipedia:Nintendo DS|Nintendo DS]], [[Wikipedia:Pokémon Black and White|''Pokémon Black'' and ''White'']]. Like the words deer and sheep, the singular and plural forms of the word "Pokémon" do not differ, nor does each individual species name; in short, it is grammatically correct to say both "one Pokémon" and "many Pokémon". Nintendo originally translated ''Poketto Monsutā'' literally, but a naming conflict with the [[Wikipedia:Monster in My Pocket|Monster in My Pocket]] toy line caused Nintendo to rebrand the franchise as "Pokémon." The game's catchphrase in the Japanese language versions of the franchise is "Let's Get Pokémon!" (ポケモンGETだぜ! ''Pokemon Getto Daze''); in English language versions of the franchise, it was originally "Gotta catch 'em all!", although it is now no longer officially used except in the sidestory episodes airing under the name ''[[Wikipedia:Pokémon Chronicles|Pokémon Chronicles]]''.
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| | |
| [QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc.
| |
| | |
| @Marik
| |
| | |
| There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff.
| |
| | |
| | |
| ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****.
| |
| | |
| Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback.
| |
| | |
| Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either.
| |
| If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge.
| |
| | |
| fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... )
| |
| | |
| 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D )
| |
| while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ).
| |
| | |
| All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate.
| |
| | |
| As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... )
| |
| | |
| Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour.
| |
| Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ).
| |
| | |
| | |
| @V3ctorman.
| |
| You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either.
| |
| | |
| About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start.
| |
| | |
| | |
| I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well.
| |
| How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill.
| |
| | |
| If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc
| |
| If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options.
| |
| | |
| If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me.
| |
| | |
| Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao.
| |
| | |
| Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing
| |
| | |
| "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase.
| |
| | |
| Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo.
| |
| | |
| Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too.
| |
| | |
| Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death.
| |
| | |
| Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ).
| |
| | |
| Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield.
| |
| | |
| I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh.
| |
| | |
| Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow.
| |
|
| |
| @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ).
| |
| | |
| Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc.
| |
| | |
| @Marik
| |
| | |
| There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff.
| |
| | |
| | |
| ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****.
| |
| | |
| Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback.
| |
| | |
| Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either.
| |
| If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge.
| |
| | |
| fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... )
| |
| | |
| 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D )
| |
| while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ).
| |
| | |
| All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate.
| |
| | |
| As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... )
| |
| | |
| Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour.
| |
| Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ).
| |
| | |
| | |
| @V3ctorman.
| |
| You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either.
| |
| | |
| About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start.
| |
| | |
| | |
| I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well.
| |
| How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill.
| |
| | |
| If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc
| |
| If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options.
| |
| | |
| If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me.
| |
| | |
| Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao.
| |
| | |
| Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing
| |
| | |
| "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase.
| |
| | |
| Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo.
| |
| | |
| Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too.
| |
| | |
| Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death.
| |
| | |
| Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ).
| |
| | |
| Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield.
| |
| | |
| I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh.
| |
| | |
| Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow.
| |
|
| |
| @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ).
| |
| | |
| Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc.
| |
| | |
| @Marik
| |
| | |
| There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff.
| |
| | |
| | |
| ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****.
| |
| | |
| Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback.
| |
| | |
| Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either.
| |
| If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge.
| |
| | |
| fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... )
| |
| | |
| 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D )
| |
| while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ).
| |
| | |
| All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate.
| |
| | |
| As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... )
| |
| | |
| Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour.
| |
| Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ).
| |
| | |
| | |
| @V3ctorman.
| |
| You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either.
| |
| | |
| About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start.
| |
| | |
| | |
| I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well.
| |
| How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill.
| |
| | |
| If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc
| |
| If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options.
| |
| | |
| If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me.
| |
| | |
| Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao.
| |
| | |
| Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing
| |
| | |
| "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase.
| |
| | |
| Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo.
| |
| | |
| Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too.
| |
| | |
| Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death.
| |
| | |
| Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ).
| |
| | |
| Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield.
| |
| | |
| I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh.[QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc.
| |
| | |
| @Marik
| |
| | |
| There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff.
| |
| | |
| | |
| ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****.
| |
| | |
| Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback.
| |
| | |
| Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either.
| |
| If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge.
| |
| | |
| fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... )
| |
| | |
| 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D )
| |
| while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ).
| |
| | |
| All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate.
| |
| | |
| As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... )
| |
| | |
| Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour.
| |
| Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ).
| |
| | |
| | |
| @V3ctorman.
| |
| You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either.
| |
| | |
| About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start.
| |
| | |
| | |
| I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well.
| |
| How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill.
| |
| | |
| If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc
| |
| If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options.
| |
| | |
| If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me.
| |
| | |
| Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao.
| |
| | |
| Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing
| |
| | |
| "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase.
| |
| | |
| Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo.
| |
| | |
| Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too.
| |
| | |
| Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death.
| |
| | |
| Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ).
| |
| | |
| Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield.
| |
| | |
| I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh.[QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc.
| |
| | |
| @Marik
| |
| | |
| There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff.
| |
| | |
| | |
| ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****.
| |
| | |
| Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback.
| |
| | |
| Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either.
| |
| If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge.
| |
| | |
| fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... )
| |
| | |
| 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D )
| |
| while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ).
| |
| | |
| All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate.
| |
| | |
| As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... )
| |
| | |
| Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour.
| |
| Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ).
| |
| | |
| | |
| @V3ctorman.
| |
| You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either.
| |
| | |
| About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start.
| |
| | |
| | |
| I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well.
| |
| How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill.
| |
| | |
| If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc
| |
| If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options.
| |
| | |
| If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me.
| |
| | |
| Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao.
| |
| | |
| Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing
| |
| | |
| "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase.
| |
| | |
| Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo.
| |
| | |
| Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too.
| |
| | |
| Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death.
| |
| | |
| Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ).
| |
| | |
| Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield.
| |
| [QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc.
| |
| | |
| @Marik
| |
| | |
| There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff.
| |
| | |
| | |
| ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****.
| |
| | |
| Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback.
| |
| | |
| Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either.
| |
| If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge.
| |
| | |
| fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... )
| |
| | |
| 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D )
| |
| while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ).
| |
| | |
| All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate.
| |
| | |
| As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... )
| |
| | |
| Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour.
| |
| Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ).
| |
| | |
| | |
| @V3ctorman.
| |
| You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either.
| |
| | |
| About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start.
| |
| | |
| | |
| I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well.
| |
| How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill.
| |
| | |
| If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc
| |
| If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options.
| |
| | |
| If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me.
| |
| | |
| Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao.
| |
| | |
| Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing
| |
| | |
| "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase.
| |
| | |
| Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo.
| |
| | |
| Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too.
| |
| | |
| Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death.
| |
| | |
| Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ).
| |
| | |
| Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield.
| |
| [QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc.
| |
| | |
| @Marik
| |
| | |
| There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff.
| |
| | |
| | |
| ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****.
| |
| | |
| Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback.
| |
| | |
| Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either.
| |
| If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge.
| |
| | |
| fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... )
| |
| | |
| 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D )
| |
| while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ).
| |
| | |
| All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate.
| |
| | |
| As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... )
| |
| | |
| Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour.
| |
| Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ).
| |
| | |
| | |
| @V3ctorman.
| |
| You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either.
| |
| | |
| About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start.
| |
| | |
| | |
| I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well.
| |
| How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill.
| |
| | |
| If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc
| |
| If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options.
| |
| | |
| If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me.
| |
| | |
| Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao.
| |
| | |
| Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing
| |
| | |
| "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase.
| |
| | |
| Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo.
| |
| | |
| Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too.
| |
| | |
| Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death.
| |
| | |
| Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ).
| |
| | |
| Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield.
| |
| | |
| I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh.[QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc.
| |
| | |
| @Marik
| |
| | |
| There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff.
| |
| | |
| | |
| ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****.
| |
| | |
| Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback.
| |
| | |
| Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either.
| |
| If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge.
| |
| | |
| fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... )
| |
| | |
| 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D )
| |
| while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ).
| |
| | |
| All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate.
| |
| | |
| As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... )
| |
| | |
| Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour.
| |
| Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ).
| |
| | |
| | |
| @V3ctorman.
| |
| You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either.
| |
| | |
| About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start.
| |
| | |
| | |
| I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well.
| |
| How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill.
| |
| | |
| If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc
| |
| If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options.
| |
| | |
| If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me.
| |
| | |
| Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao.
| |
| | |
| Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing
| |
| | |
| "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase.
| |
| | |
| Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo.
| |
| | |
| Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too.
| |
| | |
| Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death.
| |
| | |
| Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ).
| |
| | |
| Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield.
| |
| | |
| I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh.
| |
| | |
| Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot [QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc.
| |
| | |
| @Marik
| |
| | |
| There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff.
| |
| | |
| | |
| ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****.
| |
| | |
| Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback.
| |
| | |
| Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either.
| |
| If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge.
| |
| | |
| fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... )
| |
| | |
| 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D )
| |
| while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ).
| |
| | |
| All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate.
| |
| | |
| As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... )
| |
| | |
| Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour.
| |
| Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ).
| |
| | |
| | |
| @V3ctorman.
| |
| You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either.
| |
| | |
| About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start.
| |
| | |
| | |
| I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well.
| |
| How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill.
| |
| | |
| If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc
| |
| If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options.
| |
| | |
| If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me.
| |
| | |
| Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao.
| |
| | |
| Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing
| |
| | |
| "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase.
| |
| | |
| Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo.
| |
| | |
| Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too.
| |
| | |
| Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death.
| |
| | |
| Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ).
| |
| | |
| Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield.
| |
| | |
| I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh.
| |
| | |
| Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow.
| |
|
| |
| @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ).[QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc.
| |
| | |
| @Marik
| |
| | |
| There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff.
| |
| | |
| | |
| ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****.
| |
| | |
| Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback.
| |
| | |
| Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either.
| |
| If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge.
| |
| | |
| fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... )
| |
| | |
| 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D )
| |
| while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ).
| |
| | |
| All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate.
| |
| | |
| As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... )
| |
| | |
| Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour.
| |
| Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ).
| |
| | |
| | |
| @V3ctorman.
| |
| You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either.
| |
| | |
| About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start.
| |
| | |
| | |
| I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well.
| |
| How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill.
| |
| | |
| If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc
| |
| If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options.
| |
| | |
| If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me.
| |
| | |
| Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao.
| |
| | |
| Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing
| |
| | |
| "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase.
| |
| | |
| Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo.
| |
| | |
| Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too.
| |
| | |
| Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death.
| |
| | |
| Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ).
| |
| | |
| Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield.
| |
| | |
| I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh.
| |
| | |
| Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow.
| |
|
| |
| @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ).[QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc.
| |
| | |
| @Marik
| |
| | |
| There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff.
| |
| | |
| | |
| ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****.
| |
| | |
| Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback.
| |
| | |
| Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either.
| |
| If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge.
| |
| | |
| fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... )
| |
| | |
| 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D )
| |
| while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ).
| |
| | |
| All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate.
| |
| | |
| As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... )
| |
| | |
| Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour.
| |
| Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ).
| |
| | |
| | |
| @V3ctorman.
| |
| You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either.
| |
| | |
| About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start.
| |
| | |
| | |
| I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well.
| |
| How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill.
| |
| | |
| If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc
| |
| If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options.
| |
| | |
| If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me.
| |
| | |
| Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao.
| |
| | |
| Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing
| |
| | |
| "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase.
| |
| | |
| Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo.
| |
| | |
| Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too.
| |
| | |
| Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death.
| |
| | |
| Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ).
| |
| | |
| Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield.
| |
| | |
| I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh.
| |
| | |
| Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow.
| |
| [QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc.
| |
| | |
| @Marik
| |
| | |
| There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff.
| |
| | |
| | |
| ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****.
| |
| | |
| Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback.
| |
| | |
| Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either.
| |
| If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge.
| |
| | |
| fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... )
| |
| | |
| 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D )
| |
| while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ).
| |
| | |
| All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate.
| |
| | |
| As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... )
| |
| | |
| Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour.
| |
| Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ).
| |
| | |
| | |
| @V3ctorman.
| |
| You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either.
| |
| | |
| About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start.
| |
| | |
| | |
| I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well.
| |
| How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill.
| |
| | |
| If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc
| |
| If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options.
| |
| | |
| If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me.
| |
| | |
| Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao.
| |
| | |
| Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing
| |
| | |
| "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase.
| |
| | |
| Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo.
| |
| | |
| Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too.
| |
| | |
| Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death.
| |
| | |
| Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ).
| |
| | |
| Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield.
| |
| | |
| I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh.
| |
| | |
| Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow.
| |
|
| |
| @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ).
| |
| | |
| Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc.
| |
| | |
| @Marik
| |
| | |
| There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff.
| |
| | |
| | |
| ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****.
| |
| | |
| Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback.
| |
| | |
| Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either.
| |
| If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge.
| |
| | |
| fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... )
| |
| | |
| 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D )
| |
| while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ).
| |
| | |
| All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate.
| |
| | |
| As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... )
| |
| | |
| Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour.
| |
| Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ).
| |
| | |
| | |
| @V3ctorman.
| |
| You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either.
| |
| | |
| About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start.
| |
| | |
| | |
| I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well.
| |
| How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill.
| |
| | |
| If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc
| |
| If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options.
| |
| | |
| If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me.
| |
| | |
| Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao.
| |
| | |
| Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing
| |
| | |
| "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase.
| |
| | |
| Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo.
| |
| | |
| Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too.
| |
| | |
| Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death.
| |
| | |
| Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ).
| |
| | |
| Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield.
| |
| | |
| I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh.
| |
| | |
| Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow.
| |
|
| |
| @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ).
| |
| | |
| Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc.
| |
| | |
| @Marik
| |
| | |
| There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff.
| |
| | |
| | |
| ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****.
| |
| | |
| Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback.
| |
| | |
| Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either.
| |
| If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge.
| |
| | |
| fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... )
| |
| | |
| 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D )
| |
| while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ).
| |
| | |
| All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate.
| |
| | |
| As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... )
| |
| | |
| Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour.
| |
| Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ).
| |
| | |
| | |
| @V3ctorman.
| |
| You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either.
| |
| | |
| About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start.
| |
| | |
| | |
| I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well.
| |
| How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill.
| |
| | |
| If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc
| |
| If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options.
| |
| | |
| If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me.
| |
| | |
| Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao.
| |
| | |
| Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing
| |
| | |
| "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase.
| |
| | |
| Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo.
| |
| | |
| Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too.
| |
| | |
| Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death.
| |
| | |
| Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ).
| |
| | |
| Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield.
| |
| | |
| I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh.
| |
| | |
| Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow.
| |
|
| |
| @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ).
| |
| | |
| Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc.
| |
| | |
| @Marik
| |
| | |
| There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff.
| |
| | |
| | |
| ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****.
| |
| | |
| Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback.
| |
| | |
| Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either.
| |
| If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge.
| |
| | |
| fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... )
| |
| | |
| 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D )
| |
| while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ).
| |
| | |
| All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate.
| |
| | |
| As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... )
| |
| | |
| Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour.
| |
| Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ).
| |
| | |
| | |
| @V3ctorman.
| |
| You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either.
| |
| | |
| About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start.
| |
| | |
| | |
| I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well.
| |
| How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill.
| |
| | |
| If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc
| |
| If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options.
| |
| | |
| If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me.
| |
| | |
| Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao.
| |
| | |
| Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing
| |
| | |
| "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase.
| |
| | |
| Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo.
| |
| | |
| Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too.
| |
| | |
| Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death.
| |
| | |
| Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ).
| |
| | |
| Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield.
| |
| | |
| I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh.
| |
| | |
| Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow.
| |
|
| |
| @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ).
| |
| | |
| Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc.
| |
| | |
| @Marik
| |
| | |
| There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff.
| |
| | |
| | |
| ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****.
| |
| | |
| Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback.
| |
| | |
| Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either.
| |
| If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge.
| |
| | |
| fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... )
| |
| | |
| 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D )
| |
| while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ).
| |
| | |
| All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate.
| |
| | |
| As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... )
| |
| | |
| Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour.
| |
| Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ).
| |
| | |
| | |
| @V3ctorman.
| |
| You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either.
| |
| | |
| About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start.
| |
| | |
| | |
| I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well.
| |
| How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill.
| |
| | |
| If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc
| |
| If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options.
| |
| | |
| If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me.
| |
| | |
| Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao.
| |
| | |
| Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing
| |
| | |
| "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase.
| |
| | |
| Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo.
| |
| | |
| Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too.
| |
| | |
| Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death.
| |
| | |
| Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ).
| |
| | |
| Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield.
| |
| | |
| I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh.
| |
| | |
| Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow.
| |
|
| |
| @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ).
| |
| | |
| Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc.
| |
| | |
| @Marik
| |
| | |
| There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff.
| |
| | |
| | |
| ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****.
| |
| | |
| Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback.
| |
| | |
| Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either.
| |
| If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge.
| |
| | |
| fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... )
| |
| | |
| 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D )
| |
| while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ).
| |
| | |
| All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate.
| |
| | |
| As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... )
| |
| | |
| Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour.
| |
| Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ).
| |
| | |
| | |
| @V3ctorman.
| |
| You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either.
| |
| | |
| About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start.
| |
| | |
| | |
| I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well.
| |
| How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill.
| |
| | |
| If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc
| |
| If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options.
| |
| | |
| If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me.
| |
| | |
| Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao.
| |
| | |
| Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing
| |
| | |
| "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase.
| |
| | |
| Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo.
| |
| | |
| Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too.
| |
| | |
| Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death.
| |
| | |
| Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ).
| |
| | |
| Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield.
| |
| | |
| I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh.
| |
| | |
| Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow.
| |
|
| |
| @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ).
| |
| | |
| Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc.
| |
| | |
| @Marik
| |
| | |
| There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff.
| |
| | |
| | |
| ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****.
| |
| | |
| Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback.
| |
| | |
| Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either.
| |
| If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge.
| |
| | |
| fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... )
| |
| | |
| 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D )
| |
| while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ).
| |
| | |
| All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate.
| |
| | |
| As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... )
| |
| | |
| Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour.
| |
| Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ).
| |
| | |
| | |
| @V3ctorman.
| |
| You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either.
| |
| | |
| About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start.
| |
| | |
| | |
| I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well.
| |
| How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill.
| |
| | |
| If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc
| |
| If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options.
| |
| | |
| If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me.
| |
| | |
| Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao.
| |
| | |
| Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing
| |
| | |
| "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase.
| |
| | |
| Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo.
| |
| | |
| Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too.
| |
| | |
| Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death.
| |
| | |
| Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ).
| |
| | |
| Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield.
| |
| | |
| I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh.
| |
| | |
| Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow.
| |
|
| |
| @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ).
| |
| | |
| Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc.
| |
| | |
| @Marik
| |
| | |
| There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff.
| |
| | |
| | |
| ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****.
| |
| | |
| Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback.
| |
| | |
| Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either.
| |
| If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge.
| |
| | |
| fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... )
| |
| | |
| 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D )
| |
| while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ).
| |
| | |
| All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate.
| |
| | |
| As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... )
| |
| | |
| Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour.
| |
| Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ).
| |
| | |
| | |
| @V3ctorman.
| |
| You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either.
| |
| | |
| About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start.
| |
| | |
| | |
| I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well.
| |
| How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill.
| |
| | |
| If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc
| |
| If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options.
| |
| | |
| If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me.
| |
| | |
| Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao.
| |
| | |
| Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing
| |
| | |
| "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase.
| |
| | |
| Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo.
| |
| | |
| Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too.
| |
| | |
| Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death.
| |
| | |
| Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ).
| |
| | |
| Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield.
| |
| | |
| I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh.
| |
| | |
| Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow.
| |
|
| |
| @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ).
| |
| | |
| Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc.
| |
| | |
| @Marik
| |
| | |
| There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff.
| |
| | |
| | |
| ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****.
| |
| | |
| Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback.
| |
| | |
| Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either.
| |
| If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge.
| |
| | |
| fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... )
| |
| | |
| 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D )
| |
| while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ).
| |
| | |
| All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate.
| |
| | |
| As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... )
| |
| | |
| Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour.
| |
| Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ).
| |
| | |
| | |
| @V3ctorman.
| |
| You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either.
| |
| | |
| About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start.
| |
| | |
| | |
| I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well.
| |
| How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill.
| |
| | |
| If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc
| |
| If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options.
| |
| | |
| If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me.
| |
| | |
| Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao.
| |
| | |
| Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing
| |
| | |
| "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase.
| |
| | |
| Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo.
| |
| | |
| Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too.
| |
| | |
| Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death.
| |
| | |
| Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ).
| |
| | |
| Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield.
| |
| | |
| I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh.
| |
| | |
| Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow.
| |
|
| |
| @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ).
| |
| | |
| Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc.
| |
| | |
| @Marik
| |
| | |
| There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff.
| |
| | |
| | |
| ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****.
| |
| | |
| Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback.
| |
| | |
| Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either.
| |
| If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge.
| |
| | |
| fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... )
| |
| | |
| 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D )
| |
| while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ).
| |
| | |
| All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate.
| |
| | |
| As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... )
| |
| | |
| Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour.
| |
| Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ).
| |
| | |
| | |
| @V3ctorman.
| |
| You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either.
| |
| | |
| About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start.
| |
| | |
| | |
| I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well.
| |
| How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill.
| |
| | |
| If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc
| |
| If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options.
| |
| | |
| If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me.
| |
| | |
| Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao.
| |
| | |
| Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing
| |
| | |
| "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase.
| |
| | |
| Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo.
| |
| | |
| Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too.
| |
| | |
| Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death.
| |
| | |
| Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ).
| |
| | |
| Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield.
| |
| | |
| I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh.
| |
| | |
| Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow.
| |
|
| |
| @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ).
| |
| | |
| Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc.
| |
| | |
| @Marik
| |
| | |
| There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff.
| |
| | |
| | |
| ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****.
| |
| | |
| Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback.
| |
| | |
| Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either.
| |
| If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge.
| |
| | |
| fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... )
| |
| | |
| 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D )
| |
| while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ).
| |
| | |
| All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate.
| |
| | |
| As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... )
| |
| | |
| Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour.
| |
| Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ).
| |
| | |
| | |
| @V3ctorman.
| |
| You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either.
| |
| | |
| About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start.
| |
| | |
| | |
| I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well.
| |
| How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill.
| |
| | |
| If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc
| |
| If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options.
| |
| | |
| If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me.
| |
| | |
| Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao.
| |
| | |
| Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing
| |
| | |
| "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase.
| |
| | |
| Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo.
| |
| | |
| Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too.
| |
| | |
| Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death.
| |
| | |
| Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ).
| |
| | |
| Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield.
| |
| | |
| I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh.
| |
| | |
| Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow.
| |
|
| |
| @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ).
| |
| | |
| Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc.
| |
| | |
| @Marik
| |
| | |
| There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff.
| |
| | |
| | |
| ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****.
| |
| | |
| Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback.
| |
| | |
| Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either.
| |
| If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge.
| |
| | |
| fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... )
| |
| | |
| 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D )
| |
| while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ).
| |
| | |
| All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate.
| |
| | |
| As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... )
| |
| | |
| Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour.
| |
| Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ).
| |
| | |
| | |
| @V3ctorman.
| |
| You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either.
| |
| | |
| About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start.
| |
| | |
| | |
| I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well.
| |
| How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill.
| |
| | |
| If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc
| |
| If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options.
| |
| | |
| If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me.
| |
| | |
| Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao.
| |
| | |
| Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing
| |
| | |
| "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase.
| |
| | |
| Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo.
| |
| | |
| Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too.
| |
| | |
| Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death.
| |
| | |
| Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ).
| |
| | |
| Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield.
| |
| | |
| I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh.
| |
| | |
| Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow.
| |
|
| |
| @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ).
| |
| | |
| Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc.
| |
| | |
| @Marik
| |
| | |
| There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff.
| |
| | |
| | |
| ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****.
| |
| | |
| Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback.
| |
| | |
| Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either.
| |
| If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge.
| |
| | |
| fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... )
| |
| | |
| 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D )
| |
| while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ).
| |
| | |
| All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate.
| |
| | |
| As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... )
| |
| | |
| Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour.
| |
| Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ).
| |
| | |
| | |
| @V3ctorman.
| |
| You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either.
| |
| | |
| About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start.
| |
| | |
| | |
| I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well.
| |
| How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill.
| |
| | |
| If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc
| |
| If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options.
| |
| | |
| If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me.
| |
| | |
| Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao.
| |
| | |
| Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing
| |
| | |
| "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase.
| |
| | |
| Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo.
| |
| | |
| Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too.
| |
| | |
| Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death.
| |
| | |
| Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ).
| |
| | |
| Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield.
| |
| | |
| I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh.
| |
| | |
| Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow.
| |
|
| |
| @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ).
| |
| | |
| Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc.
| |
| | |
| @Marik
| |
| | |
| There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff.
| |
| | |
| | |
| ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****.
| |
| | |
| Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback.
| |
| | |
| Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either.
| |
| If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge.
| |
| | |
| fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... )
| |
| | |
| 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D )
| |
| while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ).
| |
| | |
| All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate.
| |
| | |
| As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... )
| |
| | |
| Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour.
| |
| Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ).
| |
| | |
| | |
| @V3ctorman.
| |
| You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either.
| |
| | |
| About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start.
| |
| | |
| | |
| I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well.
| |
| How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill.
| |
| | |
| If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc
| |
| If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options.
| |
| | |
| If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me.
| |
| | |
| Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao.
| |
| | |
| Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing
| |
| | |
| "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase.
| |
| | |
| Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo.
| |
| | |
| Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too.
| |
| | |
| Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death.
| |
| | |
| Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ).
| |
| | |
| Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield.
| |
| | |
| I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh.
| |
| | |
| Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow.
| |
|
| |
| @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ).
| |
| | |
| Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc.
| |
| | |
| @Marik
| |
| | |
| There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff.
| |
| | |
| | |
| ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****.
| |
| | |
| Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback.
| |
| | |
| Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either.
| |
| If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge.
| |
| | |
| fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... )
| |
| | |
| 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D )
| |
| while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ).
| |
| | |
| All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate.
| |
| | |
| As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... )
| |
| | |
| Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour.
| |
| Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ).
| |
| | |
| | |
| @V3ctorman.
| |
| You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either.
| |
| | |
| About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start.
| |
| | |
| | |
| I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well.
| |
| How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill.
| |
| | |
| If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc
| |
| If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options.
| |
| | |
| If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me.
| |
| | |
| Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao.
| |
| | |
| Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing
| |
| | |
| "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase.
| |
| | |
| Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo.
| |
| | |
| Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too.
| |
| | |
| Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death.
| |
| | |
| Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ).
| |
| | |
| Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield.
| |
| | |
| I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh.
| |
| | |
| Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow.
| |
|
| |
| @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ).
| |
| | |
| Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc.
| |
| | |
| @Marik
| |
| | |
| There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff.
| |
| | |
| | |
| ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****.
| |
| | |
| Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback.
| |
| | |
| Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either.
| |
| If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge.
| |
| | |
| fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... )
| |
| | |
| 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D )
| |
| while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ).
| |
| | |
| All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate.
| |
| | |
| As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... )
| |
| | |
| Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour.
| |
| Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ).
| |
| | |
| | |
| @V3ctorman.
| |
| You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either.
| |
| | |
| About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start.
| |
| | |
| | |
| I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well.
| |
| How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill.
| |
| | |
| If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc
| |
| If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options.
| |
| | |
| If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me.
| |
| | |
| Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao.
| |
| | |
| Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing
| |
| | |
| "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase.
| |
| | |
| Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo.
| |
| | |
| Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too.
| |
| | |
| Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death.
| |
| | |
| Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ).
| |
| | |
| Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield.
| |
| | |
| I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh.
| |
| | |
| Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow.
| |
|
| |
| @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ).
| |
| | |
| Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=leffen;11156503]unformated post inc.
| |
| | |
| @Marik
| |
| | |
| There is camping back, not only running the timer / throwing eggs but also getting around the platforms and stuff.
| |
| | |
| | |
| ---- Nvm, you obviously dont know **** about yoshi , saying that DJC is a gimmick is laughable ;D Like saying shield pressure with falco is a gimmick, ofcourse it has weaknesses, its still retardedly good if u can use it. And since when is yoshi a spacing char? hes more liek fox, like dashdancing and baiting and ****.
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| Saying uair is hard to setup was the laugh of the ****ing year, play yoshi then comeback.
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| Dude, you obv dont know **** about yoshis recovery either.
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| If you are getting gimped then lmfao l2play yoshi, you will NEVER get gimped below 100% unless you are retarded and / or get caught in your dj on the edge.
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| fyi Bair doesnt break through before 100%, read please? ( in both pal and NTSC, recovery bit is unchanged... )
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| 60-40 I defiently agree on for NTSC, possibly 65-35 In PAL, Yoshi is heavier = more cc, later breaks, stronger smashes, ( as much increase as fox usmash for fsmash and usmash afaik ;D )
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| while fox loses weight ( bad for chars like marth vs fox because of less chaingrab, but yoshi benefits alot since he can sooner start uair comboing him ), alot of smash strength and alot of up b length and it has smaller hitbox ( makes fox being able to be gimped by dtilt at 0% even with full DI ).
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| All those things probably change the matchup ~ 10 points, so yeah, 65-35 seems accurate.
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| As for fox matchup I still think people see it way wrong ( lol wtf at people saying he punishes harder because of uthrow uair, srsly? DJ and /or smash DI to nair, sooo easy ... )
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| Fair, Bair, Nair, and DownThrow -> Rest makes this her favour.
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| Trollface.jpg ( Neither combo at ALL to rest , get your facts straight ).
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| @V3ctorman.
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| You dont realise I think the matchup is even if you play as if you are gonna TIME HER OUT. So "Jiggs can play campy, defensive here... " is like bull****, if she does that, yay for you go get the edge or just throw eggs or w/e at her, as long as shes not aiming to lose stage control she aint completely safe either.
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| About risk/reward system : Dude understand that you have been playing yoshi for a very limited timespan, and that yoshi has like 3 months of metagame all together ( Fumi and Svampen were both very successful with yoshi when they played, and they have been the ONLY yoshi players ) while Jiggs Fox etc has 8 years, they were developed right from the start.
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| I probably overrated Yoshi - Fox matchup because I know it so well.
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| How does he exactly get killed easily? Uthrow - Uair shouldnt ever produce a kill.
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| If Yoshi grabs the edge, remember, if hes in the lead he will just keep hanging if fox camps, otherwise you should probably wait some and if he doesnt move then move to plaforms etc
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| If fox would try to approach a planking yoshi he has a ****load of great options.
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| If you have trouble catching a lasering fox then wtf, you must really be playing much slower than me.
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| Dash attack use was pretty badly put I must admit, I ment of it more as a dash dancing option that beats late nairs / dairs ( that counter CC ) and even if he read you and did a early nair he would just trade and be in the air with frame disadvantage ( Yoshi CCing ofc ). My post implied it was a viable counter to fox nair as whole lmfao.
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| Yoshi has a ton of options to beat fox nair with, things like Nairing from above ( The nair from above will win, true for falco also ) with DJC / Full jump, CC, RDJC, Dashdancing & Spacing
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| "Fox has so many more tools at his disposal, a better grab game, easier combo starters/launchers, and better finishing moves as well". I frankly do not believe so, how is fox grab game better by anymeans? Uthrow - Uair doesnt work , Uthrow - Bair rarely works, fthrow dthrow bthrow are under average vs yoshi. Yoshi though has throws that make him able to land all smashes, all aerials , all combo starters etc, uthrow also works perfectly while being under a platform, retardly easy tech chase.
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| Finishing moves is obv true in NTSC, though Dtilt and gimps put that equation in favor for Yoshi imo.
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| Are you implying comboing fox is hard? Basicly ANY move will setup for combos / kills, Bair nair fair uair all work at any % and all tilts work too.
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| Most 0-Death combos on fox is just 20% => read/react to tech chase / DI /Recovery => Death / 50% combo => read/ techchase => death.
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| Examples like : Nair ftilt at 20%, tech chase, go for gimp by a dsmash or start uair juggle ( -> nair or fair -> chase ).
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| Getting stuck in shield on ground isnt that bad ( on platforms just drop => uair ), its basicly fox beating on your shield -> either grab or you get to edge with lightshield.
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| I usually dont get stuck in shield so I cant speak too much of this tbh.
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| Dunno if I said this but this was more of a "if yoshis metagame develops", as in that we yoshi mains learn all that about risk / reward ( it isnt that hard tbh, esp if you have much experience in the matchup ) and alot of other stuff, I know for a fact that you or mindtrick dont use alot of the stuff I have find out ( USE AUTO CANCELED DAIRS ffs ;D improves your movement and mixup game by tenfold ). Ill try to record some games tomorrow.
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| @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ).
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| Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE]
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| @Mindtrick, Good **** against Faabs jiggs, and I bet you didnt try to run the timer ( which is imo Yoshis main pro in the matchup ).
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| Gonna play with Aniolas, IVP and other top players in sweden tomorrow and get it recorded by ajp, possibly some team footage playing Luigi/Pikachu + Yoshi with Ajp ;D Yoshi sucks pretty much in teams though, if he doesnt stock tank hardcore.[/QUOTE]
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| ==In the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series==
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| ===''Super Smash Bros.''===
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| In ''[[Super Smash Bros.]]'', two Pokémon are playable characters — the popular [[Pikachu]] and [[Jigglypuff]]. A Pokémon [[stage]] is also in the game, named [[Saffron City]].
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| [[Poké Ball]]s are also in the game as [[item]]s. When used, [[List of Pokémon in Super Smash Bros.|one out of 13 possible Pokémon]] can be summoned, each capable of dealing damage to opponents (With the exception of Mew and Goldeen).
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| ===''Super Smash Bros. Melee''===
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| In ''[[Super Smash Bros. Melee]]'', four Pokémon are playable characters — [[Pikachu]], [[Jigglypuff]], [[Pichu]], and [[Mewtwo]]. Two Pokémon stages are in the game — [[Pokémon Stadium]] and [[Poké Floats]].
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| Poké Balls also return in ''Melee''. When used, [[List of Pokémon in Super Smash Bros. Melee|one out of 29 possible Pokémon]] can be summoned. About 60 Pokémon related [[trophy|trophies]] also appear in the game.
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| ===''Super Smash Bros. Brawl''===
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| In ''[[Super Smash Bros. Brawl]]'', [[Pikachu]] and [[Jigglypuff]] are once again playable, along with [[Lucario]], and [[Pokémon Trainer]], who uses [[Squirtle]], [[Ivysaur]], and [[Charizard]] when fighting. There are three Pokémon stages in the game - [[Pokémon Stadium 2]], [[Spear Pillar]], and Melee's [[Pokémon Stadium]]
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| For a third time, Poké Balls return. [[List of Pokémon in Super Smash Bros. Brawl|Twenty-nine Pokémon]] (thirty if you count both Latias and Latios) all in the game.<ref>{{Cite web |url=http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/items/mball/index.html |title=Poké Balls |accessdate=2007-11-12 |work=[[Smash Bros. DOJO!!]] |publisher=smashbros.com}}</ref>
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| ==References==
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| <div class="references-small">
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| ;Books
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| *Tobin, Joseph, ed. ''Pikachu's Global Adventure: The Rise and Fall of Pokémon.'' Duke University Press., February, 2004. ISBN 0-8223-3287-6.
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| ;Notes
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| </div>
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| {{Reflist}}
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| ==See also==
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| *[[List of Pokémon in the Super Smash Bros. series|List of Pokémon in the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series]]
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| *[[List of Pokémon in Super Smash Bros.|List of Pokémon in ''Super Smash Bros.'']]
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| *[[List of Pokémon in Super Smash Bros. Melee|List of Pokémon in ''Super Smash Bros. Melee'']]
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| *[[List of Pokémon in Super Smash Bros. Brawl|List of Pokémon in ''Super Smash Bros. Brawl'']]
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| {{wikipedia}}
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| [[Category:Pokémon]]
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