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Forum:The Tier Wars: Difference between revisions
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:I'll agree with you that Nintendo may not ''want'' tiers to exist, but that doesn't mean they don't. Just think of it from a statistical standpoint. There are at least 5 (I'd contend even more) variables that give characters an advantage or disadvantage. Now, it's impossible to know exactly how one advantage makes up for another or what the hierarchy of advantages is. With that in mind, it is statistically unlikly that even two character created under this system would be perfectly balanced. Extrapolate that to creating some 35 characters and the statistical probability of them all being balanced goes almost to 0. And not, I'm not considering this as each character being given random attributes. But even with attempts at balance, it is statistically impossible to create a perfectly balanced group of 35 characters in this system. [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] ([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]]) 19:06, 21 May 2008 (UTC) | :I'll agree with you that Nintendo may not ''want'' tiers to exist, but that doesn't mean they don't. Just think of it from a statistical standpoint. There are at least 5 (I'd contend even more) variables that give characters an advantage or disadvantage. Now, it's impossible to know exactly how one advantage makes up for another or what the hierarchy of advantages is. With that in mind, it is statistically unlikly that even two character created under this system would be perfectly balanced. Extrapolate that to creating some 35 characters and the statistical probability of them all being balanced goes almost to 0. And not, I'm not considering this as each character being given random attributes. But even with attempts at balance, it is statistically impossible to create a perfectly balanced group of 35 characters in this system. [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] ([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]]) 19:06, 21 May 2008 (UTC) | ||
::: I agree. Actually, there are 39 characters, not 35. Ari 18:27, 24 July 2008 (UTC) | |||
I don't believe in tiers. You believe tiers exist with a huge purpose. A compromise goes like this. Instead of no tiers, and instead of tiers from top to bottom, which is way out there, tiers from good to okay. The ones that are pretty good, and the ones that aren't ''quite'' as powerful, but can easily win with a certain ammount of skill. It also doesn't have ranks within groups like the current tier lists. I'll give you an example later, I've got a busy schedule today. [[User:XXXXX|XXXXX]] ([[User talk:XXXXX|talk]]) 22:38, 21 May 2008 (UTC) | I don't believe in tiers. You believe tiers exist with a huge purpose. A compromise goes like this. Instead of no tiers, and instead of tiers from top to bottom, which is way out there, tiers from good to okay. The ones that are pretty good, and the ones that aren't ''quite'' as powerful, but can easily win with a certain ammount of skill. It also doesn't have ranks within groups like the current tier lists. I'll give you an example later, I've got a busy schedule today. [[User:XXXXX|XXXXX]] ([[User talk:XXXXX|talk]]) 22:38, 21 May 2008 (UTC) | ||
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Tiers should not be formed based on tournament placings. A whole lot more needs to be considered when forming them. If tiers were based on tournament placings, then Bowser would be high tier because Gimpyfish has won tournaments using him. Besides, the skill level of the other participants are unknown. If you have a great Snake player entering a tournament full of amateurs, then of course Snake will place first. However, will this prove that Snake is the best? NO! Unless a tournament is formed that has all the contestants at equal skill levels, which is highly unlikely, nothing can be proven from tournament placings. If you want to see MY theory on forming tiers, head to my user page. - [[User:GalaxiaD|GalaxiaD]] ([[User talk:GalaxiaD|talk]]) 01:12, 19 June 2008 (UTC) | Tiers should not be formed based on tournament placings. A whole lot more needs to be considered when forming them. If tiers were based on tournament placings, then Bowser would be high tier because Gimpyfish has won tournaments using him. Besides, the skill level of the other participants are unknown. If you have a great Snake player entering a tournament full of amateurs, then of course Snake will place first. However, will this prove that Snake is the best? NO! Unless a tournament is formed that has all the contestants at equal skill levels, which is highly unlikely, nothing can be proven from tournament placings. If you want to see MY theory on forming tiers, head to my user page. - [[User:GalaxiaD|GalaxiaD]] ([[User talk:GalaxiaD|talk]]) 01:12, 19 June 2008 (UTC) | ||
:While I agree there are flaws to it, the idea is that at the highest level of competition skill is controlled, allowing the only differences that would matter to be differences in the merits of characters. We know this to be insufficient for a variety of reasons but it is compensated for by the sample size (literally, hundreds of tournaments). That is why tier lists take years and not days. The method is flawed, but you can reduce the error by greatly expanding your sample size, and that can only be done with more official tournaments, which take place over time.[[User:Semicolon|Semicolon]] ([[User talk:Semicolon|talk]]) 14:02, 19 June 2008 (UTC) | |||
Look, even if there were tiers (And there aren't) it's completely impossible to measure them. The tournaments they use to calculate can't be done because the skill of the player varies. It's not the actual characters fighting. It's the player. Speed isn't everything, and the tier lists alone are inaccurate. Completely inaccurate. 1. They don't apply 2. It's a "Topsy Turvy" list. Please stop listening to the knuckle draggers that made the list. '''[[User:XXXXX|<font color="Green">X</font><font color="DeepSkyBlue">X</font><font color="Green">X</font><font color="DeepSkyBlue">X</font><font color="Green">X</font>]]''' [[User talk:XXXXX|<font color="Red">Talk to me OR ELSE!</font>]] 15:45, 1 July 2008 (UTC) | |||
I don't even care about tier lists. I acknowledge that tiers exist, but that's not gonna stop me from creaming Snake as Sonic.[[User:SonicROBTrainer|SonicROBTrainer]] ([[User talk:SonicROBTrainer|talk]]) 15:58, 1 July 2008 (UTC) | |||
Tiers do exist. I think part of what makes people upset is that tiers can make others evaluate the characters just by how good their fighting abilities in Smash are instead of their other merits. There are people who hate Mewtwo just because he's the weakest character, while I'm sure there are those who stopped using Fox when he got nerfed in Brawl. I'm not against tiers, but I don't want people to diss whoever is going to be bottom tier in Brawl just because they are the weakest in that game like Mewtwo before him/her/it. Also, I don't want certain characters like Falco getting undeserved glory if they happen to be top tier. --[[User:TStick|TStick]] ([[User talk:TStick|talk]]) 23:57, 10 July 2008 (UTC) | |||
It's the skill of the players. How can you get the info from tournaments if it's the players, not the characters, doing the tournament? It's impossible to measure, if there was a measurement to do. '''[[User:XXXXX|<font color="Green">X</font><font color="DeepSkyBlue">X</font><font color="Green">X</font><font color="DeepSkyBlue">X</font><font color="Green">X</font>]]''' [[User talk:XXXXX|<font color="Red">Talk to me OR ELSE!</font>]] 22:17, 11 July 2008 (UTC) | |||