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:::Well, for some reason nobody aside from one passerby responded to my last comment on the Crew namespace forum [http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Crew_namespace&diff=124236&oldid=124232 here], even though with that comment I was effectively inviting a discussion on the concept of ''reverting'' the Smasher namespace. [[User:Erik the Appreciator|Erik Jensen]] <b><sup>([[User talk:Erik the Appreciator|Appreciate me here!]])</sup></b> 05:30, 11 May 2008 (UTC) | :::Well, for some reason nobody aside from one passerby responded to my last comment on the Crew namespace forum [http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Crew_namespace&diff=124236&oldid=124232 here], even though with that comment I was effectively inviting a discussion on the concept of ''reverting'' the Smasher namespace. [[User:Erik the Appreciator|Erik Jensen]] <b><sup>([[User talk:Erik the Appreciator|Appreciate me here!]])</sup></b> 05:30, 11 May 2008 (UTC) | ||
::::The entire operation has become such a mess, I apologize for not following up on your comment. I just don't imagine that it will carry much weight. I've become quite disenfranchised with the hostile attitudes coming from new Brawl players and a significant majority of the Wikia community is a direct representation of that new influx of people. The competitive Melee community has taken an incredible amount of completely unjustified backlash on the forums simply for purporting that it's a better game (see [http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=165363 this thread] if you want an incredible headache) and it seems that we can't set foot in any public message board without some nub Brawl player chiming in to tell us what we're doing right and what we're doing wrong. The movement here post-merge is a reflection of that attitude and I don't need to cite [[Special:Recentchanges|examples]]. Granted, wiki writers tend to | ::::The entire operation has become such a mess, I apologize for not following up on your comment. I just don't imagine that it will carry much weight. I've become quite disenfranchised with the hostile attitudes coming from new Brawl players and a significant majority of the Wikia community is a direct representation of that new influx of people. The competitive Melee community has taken an incredible amount of completely unjustified backlash on the forums simply for purporting that it's a better game (see [http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=165363 this thread] if you want an incredible headache) and it seems that we can't set foot in any public message board without some nub Brawl player chiming in to tell us what we're doing right and what we're doing wrong. The movement here post-merge is a reflection of that attitude and I don't need to cite [[Special:Recentchanges|examples]]. Granted, wiki writers tend to be more coherent than forum trolls, but just as Sakurai himself shafted the competitive community in his development of the new game, so too has this merge. And you can't convince anyone of that because the vast majority of the involved parties have no concept of a real competitive following and the numbers are so large that no matter how good of a case you have, it inevitably gets washed out by the sheer volume of people who don't know what they're talking about. Take a look at this vote! How many of those people in the "For" category have ANY idea what it's like to attend a REAL regional tournament and know the kind of effort that goes into fueling that community. Never mind the lack of foresight involving creating random new namespaces for no good reason beyond further segregating competitive and casual players. I welcome the discussion about a reversion, but considering the job was never finished properly in the first place, I'm not sure we'll see a whole lot of rational support. Nobody likes to hear "I told you so." --<font color="000023">'''[[User:Randall00|RJM]]'''</font> <sup>''[[User talk:Randall00|Talk]]''</sup> 18:07, 11 May 2008 (UTC) | ||
The articles are still on the wiki, just not in the main namespace. So really nothing has changed. And rather than complaining about the double redirects, why not help out and fix them? I'm gonna contact Wikia right now about it and hopefully they'll fix the bug with the special page. As for reverting the namespace, that won't happen. The consensus was to move the smasher articles to the Smasher namespace, and that's done and over with.--[[User:Richard1990|Richard]] 23:19, 11 May 2008 (UTC) | :::::The articles are still on the wiki, just not in the main namespace. So really nothing has changed. And rather than complaining about the double redirects, why not help out and fix them? I'm gonna contact Wikia right now about it and hopefully they'll fix the bug with the special page. As for reverting the namespace, that won't happen. The consensus was to move the smasher articles to the Smasher namespace, and that's done and over with.--[[User:Richard1990|Richard]] 23:19, 11 May 2008 (UTC) | ||
:Right, a consensus that has been arrived at by a popular vote of people who have no concept of what competitive smash is. I've put in an awful lot of effort proving that I am more than willing to invest time and effort into improving the repository of information that was SmashWiki and I don't appreciate the insinuation that I should be working to clean up a mess that was caused as a result of a movement that I never supported from the very beginning. It's very easy to say "well instead of bitching, maybe you should ''do'' something about it" but when it surrounds a completely useless, bureaucratic relocation of information that I had ''nothing'' to do with <u>and</u> vehemently opposed from the start, it carries no weight with me whatsoever. Why not help out and fix them?? Seriously?? Not my job. I'm interested in making a real encyclopedia, not some convoluted sloppy-ass presentation of double redirects and curiously segregated information trying to assert what is notable and what isn't without having a clue as to what the articles stand for. You said it yourself: "the articles are still on the wiki, so really nothing has changed." Then why the hell did you move them out of the main namespace in the first place? The only thing that has changed is your precious Random Page button and a long series of sloppy web presentation issues that include not only the double redirect issue, but a ''significant'' number of tournament and community-related articles sitting in the main namespace that link to articles both in and out of the Smasher namespace in a confusing mess of double standards that doesn't make sense to a reader on the front end of this wiki. It was a waste of time right from the beginning. I know that and apparently I can't do anything about it, but FINISH YOUR JOB and don't tell me that I'm the one that should be cleaning up your mess. --<font color="000023">'''[[User:Randall00|RJM]]'''</font> <sup>''[[User talk:Randall00|Talk]]''</sup> 06:48, 12 May 2008 (UTC) | ::::::Right, a consensus that has been arrived at by a popular vote of people who have no concept of what competitive smash is. I've put in an awful lot of effort proving that I am more than willing to invest time and effort into improving the repository of information that was SmashWiki and I don't appreciate the insinuation that I should be working to clean up a mess that was caused as a result of a movement that I never supported from the very beginning. It's very easy to say "well instead of bitching, maybe you should ''do'' something about it" but when it surrounds a completely useless, bureaucratic relocation of information that I had ''nothing'' to do with <u>and</u> vehemently opposed from the start, it carries no weight with me whatsoever. Why not help out and fix them?? Seriously?? Not my job. I'm interested in making a real encyclopedia, not some convoluted sloppy-ass presentation of double redirects and curiously segregated information trying to assert what is notable and what isn't without having a clue as to what the articles stand for. You said it yourself: "the articles are still on the wiki, so really nothing has changed." Then why the hell did you move them out of the main namespace in the first place? The only thing that has changed is your precious Random Page button and a long series of sloppy web presentation issues that include not only the double redirect issue, but a ''significant'' number of tournament and community-related articles sitting in the main namespace that link to articles both in and out of the Smasher namespace in a confusing mess of double standards that doesn't make sense to a reader on the front end of this wiki. It was a waste of time right from the beginning. I know that and apparently I can't do anything about it, but FINISH YOUR JOB and don't tell me that I'm the one that should be cleaning up your mess. --<font color="000023">'''[[User:Randall00|RJM]]'''</font> <sup>''[[User talk:Randall00|Talk]]''</sup> 06:48, 12 May 2008 (UTC) | ||
:I REALLY appreciate your comment there, Randall; it explains a lot. =D Now, I believe that the main reason the job was never finished in the first place is because a lot of people still are on the rope and/or are mixed about which approach is best, and keep in mind that when I voted in favor of a Smasher namespace, it didn't occur to me then that there would be a question about a Crew namespace that would be surprisingly tough to cleanly answer. What there needs to be somewhere is a new ''focused'' discussion about the merits of reverting the Smasher namespace versus the merits of adding a crew namespace in addition to the smasher one; that should probably take place on the Crew namespace forum. [[User:Erik the Appreciator|Erik Jensen]] <b><sup>([[User talk:Erik the Appreciator|Appreciate me here!]])</sup></b> 00:14, 12 May 2008 (UTC) | :::::I REALLY appreciate your comment there, Randall; it explains a lot. =D Now, I believe that the main reason the job was never finished in the first place is because a lot of people still are on the rope and/or are mixed about which approach is best, and keep in mind that when I voted in favor of a Smasher namespace, it didn't occur to me then that there would be a question about a Crew namespace that would be surprisingly tough to cleanly answer. What there needs to be somewhere is a new ''focused'' discussion about the merits of reverting the Smasher namespace versus the merits of adding a crew namespace in addition to the smasher one; that should probably take place on the Crew namespace forum. [[User:Erik the Appreciator|Erik Jensen]] <b><sup>([[User talk:Erik the Appreciator|Appreciate me here!]])</sup></b> 00:14, 12 May 2008 (UTC) | ||
::Well, the fact that related articles like crews, tournaments, videos, etc. were not considered at the outset of the vote is just a testament to how unqualified the voters were in making their decision on this issue. That was supposed to be the intent of this entire page--a "focused" discussion, but it's pretty clear that majority rules around here, not reason. I apologize for being so cynical and negative about this issue, I really don't mean to and I would hope that my comments are more of a reflection of how much I ''care'' about this information being presented properly, as opposed to being a bunch of pissy emo ranting--I'm only human and when you spend hundreds (maybe thousands) of hours helping to build a sand castle with your friends and then Mom comes along and says "hey, you guys should play with these other kids too" so they join in and end up tearing your sand castle down...well, you're damn right I'm mad about it. I'm not blaming individuals here. It's not Wikia's fault that they want to build a different sand castle then me, but Mommy said we have to be fair and play with everyone and all of a sudden, so many new friends show up that they wanna change the game and what am I gonna do about it? | |||
::::::Well, the fact that related articles like crews, tournaments, videos, etc. were not considered at the outset of the vote is just a testament to how unqualified the voters were in making their decision on this issue. That was supposed to be the intent of this entire page--a "focused" discussion, but it's pretty clear that majority rules around here, not reason. I apologize for being so cynical and negative about this issue, I really don't mean to and I would hope that my comments are more of a reflection of how much I ''care'' about this information being presented properly, as opposed to being a bunch of pissy emo ranting--I'm only human and when you spend hundreds (maybe thousands) of hours helping to build a sand castle with your friends and then Mom comes along and says "hey, you guys should play with these other kids too" so they join in and end up tearing your sand castle down...well, you're damn right I'm mad about it. I'm not blaming individuals here. It's not Wikia's fault that they want to build a different sand castle then me, but Mommy said we have to be fair and play with everyone and all of a sudden, so many new friends show up that they wanna change the game and what am I gonna do about it? | |||
::I ''[[Template:shiningstar|appreciate]]'' your continued input on this issue, Erik. ''':^)''' Though it seems to sway curiously in and out of my favour, the mere fact that you're willing to put thought into its implications is a testament to your strong merit as a contributor in general, whether you agree or not. --<font color="000023">'''[[User:Randall00|RJM]]'''</font> <sup>''[[User talk:Randall00|Talk]]''</sup> 06:48, 12 May 2008 (UTC) | ::I ''[[Template:shiningstar|appreciate]]'' your continued input on this issue, Erik. ''':^)''' Though it seems to sway curiously in and out of my favour, the mere fact that you're willing to put thought into its implications is a testament to your strong merit as a contributor in general, whether you agree or not. --<font color="000023">'''[[User:Randall00|RJM]]'''</font> <sup>''[[User talk:Randall00|Talk]]''</sup> 06:48, 12 May 2008 (UTC) |
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