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Template talk:Attributes: Difference between revisions
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I have some questions on how to handle jumps. Melee and Brawl had a jump force attribute, which determines the velocity one leaves the ground, separate from air speed and gravity. It did not return in Smash 4 and Ultimate, which instead use the gravity attribute to determine velocity. Should the jump force attribute be added, or no because it only exists in certain games, and should multiple attribute templates be made to accommodate stats that only exist in certain games? Additionally, Smash 64 increases jump height with stick inputs, with each character having a different multiplier. I'm going to assume only the max height should be listed, with the minimum height being listed as the short hop, but should a separate template be made to accommodate the existence of the stick input multiplier that only exists in that game? And how should characters with multiple double jumps have their heights listed? Should only the first one be listed with the knowledge that each one gets smaller, or should it be given its new cell in this template separate from the other jump heights to add in every individual double jump height? [[User:Unnamed anon|Unnamed anon]] ([[User talk:Unnamed anon|talk]]) 03:36, April 21, 2023 (EDT) | I have some questions on how to handle jumps. Melee and Brawl had a jump force attribute, which determines the velocity one leaves the ground, separate from air speed and gravity. It did not return in Smash 4 and Ultimate, which instead use the gravity attribute to determine velocity. Should the jump force attribute be added, or no because it only exists in certain games, and should multiple attribute templates be made to accommodate stats that only exist in certain games? Additionally, Smash 64 increases jump height with stick inputs, with each character having a different multiplier. I'm going to assume only the max height should be listed, with the minimum height being listed as the short hop, but should a separate template be made to accommodate the existence of the stick input multiplier that only exists in that game? And how should characters with multiple double jumps have their heights listed? Should only the first one be listed with the knowledge that each one gets smaller, or should it be given its new cell in this template separate from the other jump heights to add in every individual double jump height? [[User:Unnamed anon|Unnamed anon]] ([[User talk:Unnamed anon|talk]]) 03:36, April 21, 2023 (EDT) | ||
I also have some questions on if we should include dash frames and ground acceleration listed on the [[Dash#Running speed|Dash page]]. We have air acceleration, so what about ground acceleration? On the one hand, the more info the better, but on the other hand there's an additional four values to add that are way too much for one person to handle. [[User:Unnamed anon|Unnamed anon]] ([[User talk:Unnamed anon|talk]]) 18:12, April 21, 2023 (EDT) | I also have some questions on if we should include dash frames and ground acceleration listed on the [[Dash#Running speed|Dash page]]. We have air acceleration, so what about ground acceleration? On the one hand, the more info the better, but on the other hand there's an additional four values to add that are way too much for one person to handle. [[User:Unnamed anon|Unnamed anon]] ([[User talk:Unnamed anon|talk]]) 18:12, April 21, 2023 (EDT) | ||
I'd like to raise another concern. In the event another smash game has dlc, every single character page would have to be updated under the current state of either of our current attributes templates. I don't exactly know how the code for the special moves template works, but I highly recommend if we do get attribute tables on each page, we have it work like that where only one page has to be updated when doc comes out. In this case, I also recommend making different game attributes templates (e.g. attributes64, attributesmelee, etc.); this not only prevents these templates from being so big it's impossible to find anything/load slowly, but it also solves the issue of stats that were homogenized or removed in later games (such as jump force from melee and brawl being removed, jumpsquat for homogenized in ultimate, or initial jump height for added in ultimate) [[User:Unnamed anon|Unnamed anon]] ([[User talk:Unnamed anon|talk]]) 00:18, April 24, 2023 (EDT) | |||
== Which format to use and which stats to list == | |||
Ultimate Toad has brought this discussion up again on Discord, but for those who aren't on there, I'd like to bump this discussion directly on the wiki. From what I have read, it seems like everyone who has contributed to this discussion is in agreement that we should list every character's attributes directly on their pages; the disagreement revolves around a small amount of stats to include and exclude (although some such as weight and basic movement are agreed) as well as which format to use. Regardless of how it's done, I currently have [[User:Unnamed_anon/AllCharAttributes|a work-in-progress draft listing all of the stats for Ultimate and Melee characters]]; I do need help adding stuff there, as I do not have the time nor energy to analyze over 100 characters across the series all on my own. [[User:Unnamed anon|Unnamed anon]] ([[User talk:Unnamed anon|talk]]) 21:30, October 13, 2023 (EDT) | |||
== Field for characters' heavy/empty landing lag? == | |||
I'm not entirely sure how easy it is to add fields to templates, nor how much of an undertaking it would be to add it for every character (though I would try and do at least the parts of it I can if it were implemented <nowiki>[</nowiki>I could do ''64'' and ''Melee'' at least<nowiki>[</nowiki>), but what's the opinion on adding a field for characters' empty landing lag (a.k.a, the lag from landing from a jump w/o performing a move, or landing in an autocancel window, talked about [[Lag#Normal landing|here]])? The standard (at least in ''Melee'', I can't seem to find the stats for the other games) is 4 frames, but there are exceptions like Pichu (2), DK & Ganon (5), & Bowser (6) (Gathered from this [https://smashboards.com/threads/ssbm-statistics-list.30064/ Smashboards post] by M2K). The most shocking outliers are the Wire Frames, who both have 15 frames! I am unsure if this has been discussed before, but I looked at the discussion sections above, and I couldn't find any mention of it. I even looked at the other Attribute templates to see if they had an "Empty landing lag" or "Heavy landing lag" field, but didn't see anything like that on the pages. [[User:Mariogeek2|Mariogeek2]] ([[User talk:Mariogeek2|talk]]) 21:47, November 20, 2024 (EST) | |||