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Talk:Tournament: Difference between revisions
→Splitting side events into its own article: support for proposal
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I personally think we have to bend the rule for this one page. It's the fault of tournaments that we have to deal with this PM stupidity in the first place. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Inconceivable 10:13, 10 September 2015 (EDT) | I personally think we have to bend the rule for this one page. It's the fault of tournaments that we have to deal with this PM stupidity in the first place. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Inconceivable 10:13, 10 September 2015 (EDT) | ||
:Fine then. That doesn't address the numerous other problems in the content AC was re-adding, though. Parts of it are blatantly anti-Brawl in a way that doesn't even represent the consensus of players I've seen post on the subject, while statements like "there is a correlation between tournament experience and overall skill" are so incredibly subjective and unnecessary that I can't comprehend why they would be considered desirable. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 11:13, 10 September 2015 (EDT) | :Fine then. That doesn't address the numerous other problems in the content AC was re-adding, though. Parts of it are blatantly anti-Brawl in a way that doesn't even represent the consensus of players I've seen post on the subject, while statements like "there is a correlation between tournament experience and overall skill" are so incredibly subjective and unnecessary that I can't comprehend why they would be considered desirable. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 11:13, 10 September 2015 (EDT) | ||
::A lot of stuff in the article may sound really anti-Brawl, but it's absolutely true, that's literally what happened after Brawl came out and everyone began switching back to Melee. Like PM, leaving out that info heavily misinforms the reader. The fact that people stopped playing Brawl because they didn't like is incredibly important to the tournament scene. Omitting the information is conversely overly pro-Brawl by pretending the community has no issue with it. Writing several paragraphs about why the community left Brawl would be overkill. You may not like it, but it's true. Why did Melee and Smash 4 have nearly ten times the amount of entrants as Brawl at Apex this year? | |||
::Also, "there is a correlation between tournament experience and overall skill" may sound subjective to you, but it's also true information. Honestly, what opinion are you favoring when you say that people who go to tournaments often are better than people who don't? [[User:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Awesome'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Cardinal'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''2000'''</span>]] 17:03, 10 September 2015 (EDT) | |||
:::Go talk to Praxis on the subject, I don't care to explain the whole thought process of people who preferred certain things about competitive Brawl. Even M2k made some comments to that effect recently. Regardless, what exactly do you think is inadequate about the existing sentence? "''Brawl had a relatively large tournament scene in its first five years, but it has declined since then with Smash players becoming increasingly reproachful of Brawl's gameplay as well as the changes from Melee.''" seems like it already makes your point in a less hostile fashion. | |||
:::Furthermore, if you can't understand why "''there is a correlation between tournament experience and overall skill''" is opinionated and un-encyclopedic, I'm not really sure what you're thinking. It contributes nothing of value to the page. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 17:16, 10 September 2015 (EDT) | |||
::::I know why people like playing Brawl; it was my favorite Smash game that I actively followed for a long time. But you can't just say "people stopped playing Brawl," you have to explain why there was such a huge shift by saying something like "People liked the much faster-paced gameplay of Melee," etc. for it to provide relevant encyclopedic information. The words "flaws" could be replaced with a different word that doesn't clearly favor Melee, but the old revision provides a much more detailed explanation. | |||
::::Thinking about the whole correlation a second time, I agree with you that it doesn't need to be there. [[User:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Awesome'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Cardinal'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''2000'''</span>]] 18:11, 10 September 2015 (EDT) | |||
As the person who made the edit that sparked this discussion, I support the mention of PM in any page that is exclusive to the tournament scene (such as [[tier list]], but not [[wavedash]]). The edit was merely to draw attention to it (which I saw as the most effective method). However, Miles is definitely right as the way the paragraph was written initially was pretty bad (not saying my revision was an improvement, but an effort), being blatantly biased towards Melee while pointing out completely obvious and unnecessary shit (such as the point about tournaments being the testing grounds for player skill), and also pleonastic in my opinion. - [[User:EndGenuity|EndGenuity]] ([[User talk:EndGenuity|talk]]) 14:48, 10 September 2015 (EDT) | As the person who made the edit that sparked this discussion, I support the mention of PM in any page that is exclusive to the tournament scene (such as [[tier list]], but not [[wavedash]]). The edit was merely to draw attention to it (which I saw as the most effective method). However, Miles is definitely right as the way the paragraph was written initially was pretty bad (not saying my revision was an improvement, but an effort), being blatantly biased towards Melee while pointing out completely obvious and unnecessary shit (such as the point about tournaments being the testing grounds for player skill), and also pleonastic in my opinion. - [[User:EndGenuity|EndGenuity]] ([[User talk:EndGenuity|talk]]) 14:48, 10 September 2015 (EDT) | ||
::I personally think that limiting the presence of PM to an some extent is a good idea, but it really should be mentioned on the wavedash page it was a direct result of dissatisfaction of ''Brawl'' lacking that mechanic.--[[User:Dinodomain|Dinodomain]] ([[User talk:Dinodomain|talk]]) 15:07, 10 September 2015 (EDT) | ::I personally think that limiting the presence of PM to an some extent is a good idea, but it really should be mentioned on the wavedash page it was a direct result of dissatisfaction of ''Brawl'' lacking that mechanic.--[[User:Dinodomain|Dinodomain]] ([[User talk:Dinodomain|talk]]) 15:07, 10 September 2015 (EDT) | ||
== Melee is still the most common tourney game? == | |||
Basically title. I thought Smash 4 is possibly more common than Melee?--[[User:Dinodomain|Dinodomain]] ([[User talk:Dinodomain|talk]]) 18:16, 10 September 2015 (EDT) | |||
:That statement is probably a bit outdated, as Melee and Smash 4 have had similar numbers of entrants at major tournaments. However, Smash 4's tornament scene is disproportionately smaller compared to its overall fanbase. [[User:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Awesome'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Cardinal'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''2000'''</span>]] 06:51, 11 September 2015 (EDT) | |||
== Project M worth mentioning? == | |||
I know that because of a policy about Project M (Sorry, I can't link it, because its been so long ago, I either forgot the name of the debate page or it was deleted right after), it can only be mentioned in PM pages and no where else unless really important but since Project M has a tournament scene that is small but notable, can it be mentioned on this page? [[User:Dots|<font color="red">'''D'''</font><font color="green">'''o'''</font><font color="blue">'''t'''</font><font color="purple">'''s'''</font>]] ([[User talk:Dots|talk]]) [[File:Mega Man X SNES sprite.png|19px]] The Snow as White 20:27, 28 September 2015 (EDT) | |||
:It should. I love to hate on Project M, but it IS the most prominent mod in the competitive/tournament Smash scene, so I think that makes it deserving of some sort of mention here. [[User:Smashedpotatoes|Smashedpotatoes]] ([[User talk:Smashedpotatoes|talk]]) 20:32, 28 September 2015 (EDT) | |||
::Right now PM is probably has the third biggest scene after Melee and Wii U. It was even bigger a year ago before the release of Smash for Wii U and being dropped from major tournaments.--[[User:Dinodomain|Dinodomain]] ([[User talk:Dinodomain|talk]]) 01:00, 4 October 2015 (EDT) | |||
Bump. [[User:Dots|<font color="red">'''D'''</font><font color="green">'''o'''</font><font color="blue">'''t'''</font><font color="purple">'''s'''</font>]] ([[User talk:Dots|talk]]) [[File:Mega Man X SNES sprite.png|19px]] The Blue 19:43, 28 October 2015 (EDT) | |||
== Something's off == | |||
How come about 5/6 of the anomyous vandals vandalize something that has to do something with the competitve scene? Like changing M2K's name to DER [[User:KirbysCrazyAppetite|Kirby's Crazy Appetite]] ~ [[File:KirbyHeadYellowSSB.png|50x20px]] 17:19, 5 February 2016 (EST) | |||
:Probably because many people out there hate the competitive gameplay. [[User:Penro|'''Penro''']] [[User talk:Penro|...that's all.]] [[File:PenroDarkPitHead.png|19px]] [[File:PenroZSSHead.png|19px]] 17:23, 5 February 2016 (EST) | |||
==Additional Topics== | |||
I would like to add a waterfall bracket format (Examples: [[Snosa III]], [[Smash 'N' Splash 3]] and [[Keystoned 2017]]) but it still highly experimental as it was all practiced just as of this year and also need a bit more support before I would update wiki-tournament format. | |||
I would also like to see someone add to the side events section YOLO tournament format. The only issue is the set-up for this style and the exact rule-set is sort of house-rules based. For example: During Snosa III Smash 64 tournament from what I saw. 64 doesn't have a random character selection so we randomize by turning on a CPU and observe for whatever character appears on the 10th selection, the stage is selected at random, all items are on very high. But what are the rules regarding melee, brawl, pm and wii u if there is a YOLO side event present? | |||
Any thoughts? [[User:Lv20ninja|<span style="color: Green;">Lv20ninja</span>]] [[File:Lv20ninjaDonkeyKongHeadSSB.png |19px]] [[User talk:Lv20ninja|''<span style="color: blue;">'''(talk)'''</span>'']] 10:33, 7 September 2017 (EDT) | |||
== This article feels weird == | |||
This article feels like a documentary while the other pages dont, this feels weird because this wiki should be consistent in how it feels, but that is just what I think. [[User:MeleeBoi|MeleeBoi]] ([[User talk:MeleeBoi|talk]]) 22:18, April 4, 2020 (EDT) | |||
== Splitting side events into its own article == | |||
The side events section on this page has gotten very large; it currently has 14 subsections, and that number will only continue to increase as time goes on. The topic of side events in competitive Smash is also significant enough to merit its own article, and certain individual side events, like going more indepth on the history of low/mid tier tournaments, could merit farther elaboration than the current setup on this page would suitably allow for. This topic was briefly discussed in the discord server and I agreed with the idea of the split, so I thought to make it an official proposal here. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[File: TyranitarMS.png ]] 00:23, March 25, 2023 (EDT) | |||
:'''Support''' --[[User:Meester Tweester|Meester Tweester]] ([[User talk:Meester Tweester|talk]]) 01:56, March 25, 2023 (EDT) | |||
::'''Support''', side events are commonly included in many tournaments, many different formats are very common like Squad Strike and crew battles. Definitely deserve their own page cuz there are numerous formats and a lot of them are popular. [[File:Grand Dad.png|23x20px]] [[User:NaughtyPigMario|<span style="color: red;">'''NPM'''</span>]] [[User talk:NaughtyPigMario|''<span style="color: blue;">Morr!?</span>'']] [[File:NaughtyPigBoi.jpg|23x20px]] 08:20, March 25, 2023 (EDT) | |||
:'''Support'''. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 00:57, March 31, 2023 (EDT) | |||
:'''Support''', though there should be a thing at the top saying "this is about standard play, for side events go here" just to keep everything streamlined. Page has notable benefits in being able to better document other popular or notable side events, like Rishi's Jungle Jam or something. --[[File:PlagueSigImage.png|20px]][[User:Plague von Karma|<span style="color: #e68;">'''Plague'''</span>]][[User talk:Plague von Karma|<span style="color: #e68;">''' von Karma'''</span>]][[File:PlagueSigImage.png|20px]] 15:57, May 4, 2023 (EDT) | |||
:'''Support'''. Making a separate article for this page could allow for more elaboration on events and the topic in general. [[User:Jordan2009|Jordan2009, the Sora Main]] [[User talk:Jordan2009|Talk here]] 17:58, June 6, 2023 (EDT) | |||
:'''Support'''. The article is pretty lengthy, so I see this as an easy solution. [[User:LaughinElf|LaughinElf]] ([[User talk:LaughinElf|talk]]) 22:23, July 14, 2023 (EDT) | |||