SmashWiki talk:Manual of Style/Archive 1: Difference between revisions

← Older edit

SmashWiki talk:Manual of Style/Archive 1 (view source)

Revision as of 15:37, September 4, 2021

31,785 bytes added , 3 years ago

m

Text replacement - "‎" to ""

PorpleBot

Bots, Developers

58,359

edits

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
+{{archive}}
 Do we have a specific preference between US-style standards of spelling (i.e. color, maneuver) and UK-style standards (i.e. colour, maneouvre)? [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 19:01, 21 October 2010 (EDT)
 :I think we just do whatever, and you're not supposed to make an edit that only includes changing those things. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Data Node|Data Node]] 19:05, 21 October 2010 (EDT)
@@ Line 19: / Line 20: @@
 Why is it that links such as <nowiki>[[grab|grabbing]]</nowiki> are considered "less efficient" than <nowiki>[[grab]]bing</nowiki>? Edits to change this are completely pointless and unnecessary. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 10:45, 25 May 2011 (EDT)
 :...I did a edit like that. So are you saying I'm doing pointless stuff?--<span style="font-family:Arial">[[User:Wolf rulez!|<span style="color:gray">Wolf</span>]] [[User talk:Wolf rulez!|<span style="color:blue">rulez!</span>]] </span>[[File:WolfHeadSSBB.png|19px]] '''[[Special:Contributions/Wolf rulez!|<span style="color:green">The</span>]]''' '''[[Special:Editcount/Wolf rulez!|<span style="color:red">best!</span>]]''' 10:59, 25 May 2011 (EDT)
-::Basically a lot of users will view it as pointless due to both of the links will link to the same page and will both look the same when not editing, the only postive it has is to save a couple of bits. At the moment though it is not considered pointless due to that being the correct way to link in the Manual of Style.--[[User:Shaun's Wiji Dodo|<span style="color: green;">'''Shaun's Wiji Dodo'''</span>]] [[User talk:Shaun's Wiji Dodo|''<span style="color: green;">talk</span>'']] [[File:Untitled-1_copy.gif‎ ]] 11:09, 25 May 2011 (EDT)
+::Basically a lot of users will view it as pointless due to both of the links will link to the same page and will both look the same when not editing, the only postive it has is to save a couple of bits. At the moment though it is not considered pointless due to that being the correct way to link in the Manual of Style.--[[User:Shaun's Wiji Dodo|<span style="color: green;">'''Shaun's Wiji Dodo'''</span>]] [[User talk:Shaun's Wiji Dodo|''<span style="color: green;">talk</span>'']] [[File:Untitled-1_copy.gif ]] 11:09, 25 May 2011 (EDT)
 :::That does not answer my question on why one form of linking is considered "more efficient" than the other, as both ways of linking appear exactly the same on the page people view. Just because it is currently in the manual of style does not mean it is automatically correct. And yes Wolf Rulez, I'm saying all edits that only change one form of linking to the other is unnecessary and adds nothing to the page, therefore such edits are pointless. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 11:32, 25 May 2011 (EDT)
-::::I was actually answering Wolf Rulez's question, hence why it doesn't answer yours and why it is spaced under Wolf's comment.--[[User:Shaun's Wiji Dodo|<span style="color: green;">'''Shaun's Wiji Dodo'''</span>]] [[User talk:Shaun's Wiji Dodo|''<span style="color: green;">talk</span>'']] [[File:Untitled-1_copy.gif‎ ]] 11:37, 25 May 2011 (EDT)
+::::I was actually answering Wolf Rulez's question, hence why it doesn't answer yours and why it is spaced under Wolf's comment.--[[User:Shaun's Wiji Dodo|<span style="color: green;">'''Shaun's Wiji Dodo'''</span>]] [[User talk:Shaun's Wiji Dodo|''<span style="color: green;">talk</span>'']] [[File:Untitled-1_copy.gif ]] 11:37, 25 May 2011 (EDT)
 Suffix links make things easier to read and harder to spell wrong for the editor, have no effect on the reader, and are (most likely) no more expensive to process than piped links; Wikipedia [[wikipedia:WP:LINK#Piped Links|sums it up]] with "This is easier to type and clearer to read in the source text." While I can agree that you probably shouldn't devote a single edit to changing piped links to suffix links, they appear have no downsides whatsoever. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Chilled 12:15, 25 May 2011 (EDT)
@@ Line 63: / Line 64: @@
 ::I should point out that anyone who thinks we're using things like "SSBM" in titles just for template reasons is misguided. The templates would work just fine regardless of the abbreviations involved, we'd just have to move a thousand pages and alter a dozen templates if we wanted to change it.
 ::More importantly, I am of the opinion that "Smash 64" and "Smash 4" are fucking asinine because they are non-consecutive cuts. Using "SSB" for SSB64 is perfectly fine because we never use the "SSB" abbreviation in reference to the series; we always use "the Smash Bros. series" or similar. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Keymaster 20:31, 10 August 2013 (EDT)
+:::The abbreviations are rather unencyclopedic. And like OT said somewhere else, the Templates are for convenience, the "SSB" forms are more convenient.
+:::Users have already been confused as to what "SSB" refers to, the game or the series. Just because we "always use" something doesn't mean we don't have to clarify. And why does a "non-consecutive cut" matter? Many people refer to Super Mario Bros. 3 as simply "Mario 3". <span style="font-family:Triforce, sans-serif;">'''[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color=#008000>D<font color=#008019>o<font color=#008031>c<font color=#008049>t<font color=#008062>o<font color=#008080>rP</font>a</font>i</font>n</font>9</font>9</font>]]'''</span> 20:38, 10 August 2013 (EDT)
+::::How is a partial name and an arbitrary suffix more encyclopedic than a complete and no-frills abbreviation? [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Hammer 20:44, 10 August 2013 (EDT)
+:::::"SSB" is a few letters; "Smash" is actually a word and it makes it clear what is being talked about. "64" isn't arbitrary; it's common as many Nintendo 64 games had "64" at the end of the title. "Superman 64" isn't actually called 64, but people call it that anyway due to 64 being at the end of many Nintendo 64 titles. And as stated before "Smash 64" makes it clear what is being referred to; SSB doesn't. <span style="font-family:Triforce, sans-serif;">'''[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color=#008000>D<font color=#008019>o<font color=#008031>c<font color=#008049>t<font color=#008062>o<font color=#008080>rP</font>a</font>i</font>n</font>9</font>9</font>]]'''</span> 22:03, 10 August 2013 (EDT)
+:::::Also, "4" is an "arbitrary suffix" and we use those in all of our articles and that's not being argued against by anyone. <span style="font-family:Triforce, sans-serif;">'''[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color=#008000>D<font color=#008019>o<font color=#008031>c<font color=#008049>t<font color=#008062>o<font color=#008080>rP</font>a</font>i</font>n</font>9</font>9</font>]]'''</span> 22:09, 10 August 2013 (EDT)
+::::::Alright, so if the necessity is "make subject clear" and "64" is a valid suffix, why not "SSB64"? [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Boss 23:35, 10 August 2013 (EDT)
+I'll point out that "64" is an absolutely valid suffix for the original, what kind of bubble do you guys live in if you think no one refers to it as Smash 64 and it's not the common name? Hell, on [http://smashboards.com/ Smashboards], its board for the original Smash is called "Smash 64", not "Super Smash Bros." Everywhere I go, it's referred to as "64", and it thus is an absolutely valid and not arbitrary name, that also keeps it from overlapping with the series name. [[SmashWiki is not official]], and Smash 64 is certainly the common name used for the original game.
+And what's the big deal with a "non-consecutive cut"? <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 00:30, 11 August 2013 (EDT)
+:If you can't see why a name that includes "Smash" but not "Bros." is bad, then I can't explain it to you. There's too much of a fundamental difference in the way we think.
+:Anyway, you don't need to convince me, you just have to convince everyone else (this is a majority-rules site after all). Just know I'll be aggressively unhelpful in adhering to this practise. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Resolute 11:37, 11 August 2013 (EDT)
+::I also fail to see the problem with a non-consecutive cut. Smash is the most recognisable word to identify the series as a whole, as "Super" and "Bros." are used in a certain other series that is also common. "Smash" without the "Bros." sounds fine and makes it very clear what is being talked about, so I see no issue. <span style="font-family:Triforce, sans-serif;">'''[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color=#008000>D<font color=#008019>o<font color=#008031>c<font color=#008049>t<font color=#008062>o<font color=#008080>rP</font>a</font>i</font>n</font>9</font>9</font>]]'''</span> 14:26, 11 August 2013 (EDT)
+::Per DP99. [[User:Scr7|<font style="color:#0000FF">S</font>]][[User talk:Scr7|<font style="color:#7F7FFF">c</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Scr7|<font style="color:#00FFFF">r</font>]][[Special:Editcount/Scr7|<font style="color:#FF7F00">7</font>]][[File:Wolfsig.png|19px|link=Special:PrefixIndex/User:Scr7]] 14:29, 11 August 2013 (EDT)
+In article titles, templates, etc.: SSB/SSB64, SSBM, SSBB, SSB4<br>
+In article text: ''Smash 64, Melee, Brawl, Smash 4'' [[User:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Awesome'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Cardinal'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''2000'''</span>]] 18:43, 11 August 2013 (EDT)
+:Agree with this. [[User:Scr7|<font style="color:#0000FF">S</font>]][[User talk:Scr7|<font style="color:#7F7FFF">c</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Scr7|<font style="color:#00FFFF">r</font>]][[Special:Editcount/Scr7|<font style="color:#FF7F00">7</font>]][[File:Wolfsig.png|19px|link=Special:PrefixIndex/User:Scr7]] 06:31, 16 August 2013 (EDT)
+Bump. If you want it removed so much Miles, you should respond to this debate. [[User:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Awesome'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Cardinal'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''2000'''</span>]] 23:26, 25 August 2013 (EDT)
+:As I've already stated "Smash 64" is a significantly worse shorthand than "SSB", and here's several reasons:
+#Arbitrarily uses one word of the three-word title of the original game as the shorthand, as opposed to an abbreviation that represents the full title. (Not an issue with Melee or Brawl, since those have a distinct additional word beyond the series title.)
+#Is more easily confused with our current shorthand for the upcoming games in the series, especially if you're trying to argue for "Smash 4" for that game's shorthand.
+#As it currently stands, we don't use the abbreviation "SSB" for anything else but the first game in the series. There's no grounds for confusion if we continue that trend and make it official.
+:Seems straightforward enough. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 00:06, 26 August 2013 (EDT)
+::1. So it would be better to use an abbreviation that goes against two full words?<br>
+::2. SSB and SSBB are only different by one letter as well. I don't see how people would get confused over Smash 64 and Smash 4 anyways.
+::3. But there are other people in the community who use "SSB" to refer to the series itself, like "MK is the most broken character in the SSB series" or whatever. It would create grounds for confusion for people who use that to refer to the series. [[User:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Awesome'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Cardinal'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''2000'''</span>]] 00:12, 26 August 2013 (EDT)
+::::"abbreviation that goes against two full words" What even word salad. I have no idea. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Resolute 00:49, 26 August 2013 (EDT)
+:::1. In this case, yes.
+:::2. "SSBB" is already restricted to page titles, so the chance of ambiguity between those two is very low. False equivalency.
+:::3. We've already determined that there are multiple ways of going about doing this, so saying "usage of ____" exists is irrelevant. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 00:17, 26 August 2013 (EDT)
+::::1. It's not "arbitrary", that's what people call it. "Melee" and "Brawl" are what people usually call it, and they also call it "Smash 64" and "Smash 4".
+::::2. Again, why would people get confused over Smash 64 and Smash 4?
+::::3. No we have not, and it's also important that people don't get confused over the stuff we write, which is why we can't use SSB to refer to the original. [[User:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Awesome'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Cardinal'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''2000'''</span>]] 00:37, 26 August 2013 (EDT)
+:::::Google time then:
+:::::"SSB64": 6,310 on SmashBoards, 106,000 elsewhere
+:::::"Smash 64": 141,000 on SmashBoards (probably tainted because that's what the forum is named), 83,100 elsewhere
+:::::"SSB4": 13,100 on SmashBoards, 465,000 elsewhere
+:::::"Smash 4": 8,380 on SmashBoards, 298,100 elsewhere
+:::::Not trying "SSB" because that's probably impossible to search as 64. The point is, aside from the case where "Smash 64" is the name of a major SmashBoards forum, the abbreviated forms are notably (but not overwhelmingly) more common. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Resolute 00:49, 26 August 2013 (EDT)
+::::::''Arbitrarily uses one word of the three-word title of the original game as the shorthand, as opposed to an abbreviation that represents the full title. (Not an issue with Melee or Brawl, since those have a distinct additional word beyond the series title.)''.
+::::::How the hell is using Smash "arbitrary"? Like OT, linked, Smash 64 is a common name and out of the three words, Smash is the one most recognizable from the series.
+::::::''Is more easily confused with our current shorthand for the upcoming games in the series, especially if you're trying to argue for "Smash 4" for that game's shorthand."
+::::::How the fucking hell is using "Smash 64" and "Smash 4" as abbreviations more confusing than using "SSB", the same thing, for both the series and a game. Users have already been confused as to what "SSB" means. It should not be used as the abbreviation.''
+::::::''As it currently stands, we don't use the abbreviation "SSB" for anything else but the first game in the series. There's no grounds for confusion if we continue that trend and make it official.''
+::::::Dude, users have already been confused. Just because you "hate" the abbreviation Smash 64, doesn't make it more proper than the ambiguous "SSB".
+::::::And @Toomai, common≠proper. <span style="font-family:Triforce, sans-serif;">'''[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color=#008000>D<font color=#008019>o<font color=#008031>c<font color=#008049>t<font color=#008062>o<font color=#008080>rP</font>a</font>i</font>n</font>9</font>9</font>]]'''</span> 00:54, 26 August 2013 (EDT)
+:::::::I know the general population is moronic but I'm not seeing evidence of a widespread conniption of users thinking "this is in SSB" means "this is in the Smash Bros. series". And neither "SSB64" nor "Smash 64" is proper (isn't any sort of abbreviation or shorthard improper by definition?), which is why I went to see which is common. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Wacko 01:00, 26 August 2013 (EDT)
+::::::::When you think "Super Smash Bros." (which is what SSB stands for), do you think the game, or the series? I sure as hell don't think of the game right away. And I still don't get everyone's conniption with "64". It's common to tack that onto Nintendo 64 games even if they don't have it in their titles, such as Superman. <span style="font-family:Triforce, sans-serif;">'''[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color=#008000>D<font color=#008019>o<font color=#008031>c<font color=#008049>t<font color=#008062>o<font color=#008080>rP</font>a</font>i</font>n</font>9</font>9</font>]]'''</span> 01:12, 26 August 2013 (EDT)
+::::::::Also, where are you getting these numbers? When I google, Smash 4 gets 320,000,000 compared to SSB4's 471,000, and Smash 64 gets 61,300,000 compared to SSB64's 112,000. When I add quotes, SSB4 surpasses Smash 4, but Smash 64 remains ahead of SSB64. Hell, even googling SSB gets less results than googling Smash 64 without quotes. <span style="font-family:Triforce, sans-serif;">'''[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color=#008000>D<font color=#008019>o<font color=#008031>c<font color=#008049>t<font color=#008062>o<font color=#008080>rP</font>a</font>i</font>n</font>9</font>9</font>]]'''</span> 02:46, 26 August 2013 (EDT)
+:::::::::I got the numbers with "site:smashboards.com" and "-site:smashboards.com", as well as putting quotes around "SSB64", "Smash 64", "SSB4", and "Smash 4".
+:::::::::When I see "Super Smash Bros.", I think "this could be the game or the series, and the context will make it blatantly obvious". When I see "Smash Bros.", I think "the series, unless the writer's a casual". When I see "Smash", I think "could be Smash Bros., but could also be one of hundreds of things with "smash" in the name".
+:::::::::I have no problem with the 64 in SSB64, in case that hasn't been clear anywhere. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Xanthic 06:56, 26 August 2013 (EDT)
+== Pokemon gender pronouns ==
+So recently, [[Talk:Jigglypuff (PM)#Pokemon gender for Project M|discussion started]] on if pokemon should be referred to by the gender pronoun the PM team refers to them by on their PM pages. This got me thinking, that we should just do away with the "it", and refer to pokemon by the gender pronoun most commonly used for them by the Smash community. [[SmashWiki is not official]], and we made it clear before we'll use the common community term over the official name (e.g., tech over ukemi, tripping over prat falling, etc.). So the reasoning before that we use "it" instead of "he/she" because it's "official" doesn't hold water. Plus, we constantly have users referring to pokemon by their commonly used gender pronoun on the wiki, and often times using them in articles, even inadvertently (I know there been a few times I used he or she instead of it without thinking about it).
+So I propose we end the "pokemon are it" policy, and just go with whatever gender pronoun the Smash community associates with the pokemon. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 00:43, 22 November 2013 (EST)
+:While I myself is more used to using "it" since the gender of Pokemon can vary, I would have to agree with you that having gender pronouns instead makes it easier to understand, since frankly most people even outside the smash community do gender pronouns on Pokemon all the time. [[User:Dots|<font color="red">'''D'''</font><font color="darkorange">'''o'''</font><font color="blue">'''t'''</font><font color="purple">'''s'''</font>]] ([[User talk:Dots|talk]]) [[File:MewtwoMS.png]] The Smasher 01:04, 22 November 2013 (EST)
+:So which genders would these be? Is Jigglypuff female? Does Mewtwo get a gender, despite it not having one at all? As always, I'm dubious about this kind of change, particularly if it gives Mewtwo a gender. [[User:ToastUltimatum|<font color="ff8c00">'''Toast'''</font>]] [[File:Wii U Logo Transparent.png|17px]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|<font color="01a3c4">'''ltimatum'''</font>]] 02:34, 22 November 2013 (EST)
+::Pikachu/Pichu = Male
+::Lucario = Male
+::Mewtwo = Male (He's generally referred to as male by the community, and I don't consider his genderless status in the games to be significant really).
+::Jigglypuff = Female
+::Charizard = Male
+::Squirtle = Male
+::Ivysaur I'm not sure about, as I see a chunk of smashers refer to Ivysaur as female, while another chunk use male pronouns for Ivysaur. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 02:48, 22 November 2013 (EST)
+:::Looks good. I'm not sure about Ivysaur either . . . but I must voice my concern about Mewtwo. If a Pokemon is inherently genderless, rather than one with both male and female, like the rest, in this case, is it okay to refer to it as a he or a she? We're already treading a weird line, so I'd say I prefer referring to Mewtwo as an 'it', as it is.
+:::One thing that does work against me is that the P:M page refers to it as a he, and I used that same logic to support Jigglypuff being referred to with female pronouns and as a she in general. — [[User:Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon|Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon]] ([[User talk:Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon|talk]]) [[File:Jigglypuff_the_Magic_Dragon_sig.png]] 08:38, 22 November 2013 (EST)
+In the end I don't really care either way, but here's my opinion:
+*Don't force "it" for playable Pokémon, but don't force "he/she/etc" either. Keep consistency, but don't change for the sake of change. (Somewhat like the English variant spellings.)
+*Keep the "it" stipulation for non-playable Pokémon and when talking about playable ones in a non-Smash Bros. context.
+[[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Superlative 10:29, 22 November 2013 (EST)
+I think maintaining the usage of "it" consistently for Pokemon in the context of Smash is important. Unless we have a confirmed gender anywhere for them (which we don't), we shouldn't use one. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 12:12, 22 November 2013 (EST)
+:I have a more defined opinion now. Pikachu, Squirtle, Charizard, Jigglypuff, Lucario, I don't care, give them genders if that's what we decide on. It's harder to tell Pichu's gender, it probably just doesn't have one, but male is more popular, so I'm indifferent to that too. However, I have a problem with giving pronouns to Ivysaur and Mewtwo.
+:As has been said, there's much debate over Ivysaur's gender. If there's two popular pieces of conflicting speculation, we should stick with what's official, and not give it a gender.
+:Mewtwo, I'm particularly opposed to. Official sources outright call Mewtwo genderless. There's more to it than "all legendaries are genderless so they can't breed", Mewtwo wouldn't have a gender for it is man-made. I don't frankly give a damn if ''Smash'' players call it male, Mewtwo ''is'' genderless, which we should respect. [[User:ToastUltimatum|<font color="ff8c00">'''Toast'''</font>]] [[File:Wii U Logo Transparent.png|17px]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|<font color="01a3c4">'''ltimatum'''</font>]] 12:52, 22 November 2013 (EST)
+::Yeah, I'd want to call Mewtwo an 'it'. Also—Brawl came out after gender differences in Pokemon were introduced, should we consider Pikachu a confirmed male? For the rest of the Pokemon, all we have is voices, Pokemon gender ratios, and costumes . . . I don't think anybody would contest calling Squirtle, Charizard, Lucario, and Pichu 'he', but Ivysaur is more debatable, though the only evidence for it being female is its Japanese voice. Jigglypuff is quite commonly accepted as a female, plus her inherently feminine costumes, plus Jigglypuff's gender ratio itself. But the only ones we have solid evidence on are Mewtwo and (I believe) Pikachu. — [[User:Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon|Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon]] ([[User talk:Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon|talk]]) [[File:Jigglypuff_the_Magic_Dragon_sig.png]] 22:00, 22 November 2013 (EST)
+I think we should refer to the Pokémon by its name as much as possible without using a pronoun. [[User:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Awesome'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Cardinal'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''2000'''</span>]] 21:52, 22 November 2013 (EST)
+:The problem is, that'd be ridiculously cumbersome in general. — [[User:Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon|Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon]] ([[User talk:Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon|talk]]) [[File:Jigglypuff_the_Magic_Dragon_sig.png]] 22:00, 22 November 2013 (EST)
+Ok, so from what I get from this, people will be fine with the following:
+Referring to Pikachu, Pichu, Lucario, Charizard, and Squirtle as male.
+Referring to Jigglypuff as female.
+Referring to Mewtwo and Ivysaur as "it" (the former for being technically genderless, and the latter for gender ambiquty among the Smash community).
+Any objections? <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 00:42, 24 November 2013 (EST)
+:Yes...? Why ask that when you can clearly see that there are problems with that approach that have been raised just a few lines above? [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 13:15, 24 November 2013 (EST)
+::The only "problems" people had were with Mewtwo and Ivysaur, which was resolved to just stick with "it" for them. You saying you prefer "it" isn't "raising clear problems with that approach". <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 13:25, 24 November 2013 (EST)
+:::"SmashWiki is not official" was designed for cases where the community had clear terminology for certain things before the official name became known. Genders of Pokemon, however, are definitely ambiguous in this context. We don't have any basis for applying pronouns other than "it", especially since it would cause consistency problems with Mewtwo, Ivysaur, and non-playable Pokemon. We should maintain the current practice of using "it" for reasons like this. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 13:39, 24 November 2013 (EST)
+::::"''"SmashWiki is not official" was designed for cases where the community had clear terminology for certain things before the official name became known.''"
+::::And what do you know, the Smash community has clear consistent terminology here, Ivysaur/Mewtwo are the only pokemon this isn't the case for. Also, "when the official name became known" is irrelevant; as long as the community term is much more widespread in use, that is the term we use, regardless of if it became before the official name (tech vs. ukemi) or after (tripping vs. prat falling).
+::::"''Genders of Pokemon, however, are definitely ambiguous in this context.''"
+::::Except they're not ambiguous. 99% of smashers refer to Pikachu/Pichu, Lucario, Charizard, and Squirtle as male, while 99% of smashers refer to Jigglypuff as female. You can't get more consistent and non-ambiguous than that.
+::::"''We don't have any basis for applying pronouns other than "it"''"
+::::Yeah we do, when "it" is pretty much never used outside the forcing of it on the Wiki mainspace.
+::::"''specially since it would cause consistency problems with Mewtwo, Ivysaur, and non-playable Pokemon.''"
+::::This is no real "consistency" problem and is just unnecessary lumping. Non-playable pokemon here are a non-factor, and referring to Mewtwo/Ivysaur as "it" while the other pokemon have gender pronouns that everyone uses for them isn't gonna cause some mass confusion. Additionally, characters should be handled by a case by case basis on how we refer to them, not just lump a bunch of characters together for "consistency".
+::::Simply put, allow the common gender pronoun on the pokemon outside Mewtwo and Ivysaur, with it noted for the latter two that "it" is used due to nonconsensus on the proper gender pronoun for them. It's simple and "consistent" enough. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 14:13, 24 November 2013 (EST)
+::::: Exactly—it'd be no more inconsistent than the rule about American vs Commonwealth spellings. As long as it's consistent within an article, it'd be fine. I'm in support of going forward as Omega Tyrant laid out. — [[User:Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon|Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon]] ([[User talk:Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon|talk]]) [[File:Jigglypuff_the_Magic_Dragon_sig.png]] 16:20, 24 November 2013 (EST)
+I'd actually like to see this get passed so that edits regarding gender-neutral pronouns actually have some official backing on the Wiki. <span style="font-family:Forte">[[User:Megatron1|<span style="color:maroon">Mega</span>]][[User talk:Megatron1|<span style="color:silver">Tron1</span>]][[User:Megatron1/Laughology|<span style="color:blue">XD</span>]]</span>[[File:Decepticon.png|19px]] 22:43, 29 December 2013 (EST)
+== Regarding dates ==
+Are both American and European date formats acceptable provided they are kept consistent on pages, or should the Wiki use only one format? --- <font face="American Typewriter">''[[User:Monsieur Crow|Monsieur]] [[User_talk:Monsieur Crow|Crow]], Author Extraordinaire''</font>, 18:13, 28 January 2014 (EST)
+:I think both used consistently are fine, just like spellings. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Orchestral 18:17, 28 January 2014 (EST)
+== Player ==
+Should "Player" be capitalized? --[[User:TommyNook|TommyNook]] ([[User talk:TommyNook|talk]]) 13:23, 6 April 2014 (EDT)
+:It's not a proper noun; I don't see any reason for it to be. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Resolute 13:25, 6 April 2014 (EDT)
+== "Cancelling" articles ==
+If it's supposed to be a noun, shouldn't it be "____'''cancellation'''" instead? In other words, I would like the "___ canceling" articles to be "___ cancellation" to fit with the noun policy. I would also like the two ls, as "cancellation" is also used in the USA. {{s|user|Red}} ([[User talk:Red|talk]]) [[File:RedSig.png|12px|link=Special:Contributions/Red|Red]] 10:26, 21 May 2014 (EDT)
+:The -ing suffix is a valid way to turn verbs into nouns. I think this would be an unnecessary change. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Spectrum 10:51, 21 May 2014 (EDT)
+#-ing is how they are referred to in the community.
+#See Toomai's: To elaborate, canceling is a gerund. It can be used as both a noun or a verb. ''M2K practices L-canceling // Did you see M2K L-canceling in that vid?'' [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 12:42, 21 May 2014 (EDT)
+::For some reason, I thought gerunds were used as verbs or ''adjectives'', but my dictionary says it's nouns. Still, I believe gerunds should only be used as a noun form if it doesn't already have a noun form (e.g. cancellation), but that's just my opinion. I guess it doesn't matter. {{s|user|Red}} ([[User talk:Red|talk]]) [[File:RedSig.png|12px|link=Special:Contributions/Red|Red]] 10:10, 22 May 2014 (EDT)
+==Pokémon Gender==
+The discussion above wasn't really finished, wasn't it? Anyways, I would like to improve this line:<br>
+"All Pokémon should be treated as gender-neutral."<br>
+Here's my only problem with that line: Pokémon that only have one gender, such as [[Chansey]]. Here's what I'm thinking of changing the line to:<br>
+"All Pokémon should be treated as gender-neutral, ''unless the Pokémon can only be one gender, in which in that case the Pokémon can be referred to as that gender''".<br>
+As I said, the previous discussion above doesn't appear finished and this line is in a somewhat debatable state. Thoughts? <font face="AmericanTypewriter">[[User: Rtzxy|<span style="color:darkorange;">Rtzxy</span>]] [[File:SmashSig.jpeg]] [[User talk:Rtzxy|<span style="color:blue;">Smashing!</span>]]</font> 16:07, 14 October 2014 (EDT)
+:There's no particular reason to make this change. In addition to the fact that it would create inconsistency across different Pokemon pages, it contradicts how the games themselves refer to the Pokemon. For example, Chansey's Melee trophy uses "it" even while discussing the 100% female nature of the species. Aside from [[Event 25: The Aura Is With Me|rare goofs]], this is highly consistent across official sources. (If that wasn't enough, Bulbapedia also changed its policy to strictly using "it" for species, restricting "him"/"her" for individual Pokemon with known genders.) [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 17:36, 14 October 2014 (EDT)
+== About metric ==
+I think that we should replace the bullet point in the "American or non-American English" section on "don't edit to change units" with a new top-level bullet point something like this:
+::*''As the ''Smash Bros.'' series was developed in Japan, all its underlying data is coded in metric units. Therefore, when referring to in-game measurements, always use metric first, followed by an imperial measurement if necessary.''
+::**''Example: Hit Sandbag '''1000m (3280 ft.)''' or more in Home-Run Contest.''
+::**''Exception: If a trophy description is different between NTSC and PAL regions (and the measurement units are not the only difference), use only whatever units are appropriate.''
+Thoughts? [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Riotous 13:52, 1 November 2014 (EDT)
+:Just to keep consistency, I will '''support''' this. It'll take work to change all the measurements though. <font face="sand">''[[User:Qwerty|<font color="black">Qw</font><font color="003F3F">er</font><font color="005F5F">ty</font>]] ''[[User talk:Qwerty|<font color="005F6F">(t</font><font color="003C6F">al</font><font color="000F7F">k)</font>]]</font> 13:55, 1 November 2014 (EDT)
+::I '''support''' this, since most of the world uses metric (in fact, the US is the only country to ''not'' use it). <span style="background-color:orange;border:2px solid blue;border-radius:7px;">[[User:Rtzxy|<span style="color:yellow">'''Rtzxy'''</span>]] [[File:Reflect.jpg|x20px]] [[User talk:Rtzxy|<span style="color:brown">'''''Reflect!!!'''</span>]]</span> 14:01, 1 November 2014 (EDT)
+Bumping this. Would like to codify soon. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Glow 00:32, 29 November 2014 (EST)
+:One month and no dissent; putting in. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Glow 23:11, 3 December 2014 (EST)