Forum:Smasher namespace: Difference between revisions

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This is kind of a continuation of the "Merging Problems" Help Desk topic. First I'd like to say I'm pleased with the main page merge and the count down timer on it. It looks like people are merging templates too so thats good. But still my biggest concern is the Smasher articles. It is evident that these aren't going to be merged with user pages or become redirects. So I'd like to have a vote to decide whether we make a Smasher namespace to separate these pages from the rest of our content.
This is kind of a continuation of the "Merging Problems" Help Desk topic. First I'd like to say I'm pleased with the main page merge and the count down timer on it. It looks like people are merging templates too so thats good. But still my biggest concern is the Smasher articles. It is evident that these aren't going to be merged with user pages or become redirects. So I'd like to have a vote to decide whether we make a Smasher namespace to separate these pages from the rest of our content.


In defense of this idea the casual gamers and Wikia users will benefit by viewing articles about the smash bros. games when they click the random page button. Our article count will no longer be misleading since over 1300 articles are about Smashers. In some rare instances Smasher names take up the namespace for things in the games. For example: [[SmashWiki:Merge/Wario Bros.]] compare to [[Wario Bros.]] And lastly it was never the SSB Wiki's intent to document players at all so this would be a good compromise. [[User:Bonko24|Bonko24]] 23:33, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
In defense of this idea the casual gamers and Wikia users will benefit by viewing articles about the smash bros. games when they click the random page button. Our article count will no longer be misleading since over 1300 articles are about Smashers. In some rare instances Smasher names take up the namespace for things in the games. For example: [[SmashWiki:Merge/Wario Bros.] compare to [[Wario Bros.]] And lastly it was never the SSB Wiki's intent to document players at all so this would be a good compromise. [[User:Bonko24|Bonko24]] 23:33, 4 March 2008 (UTC)


==Voting==
==Voting==
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:As for your specific instance, the in-game term should take precedence of course. Any such need for disambiguation should always default to the in-game term.
:As for your specific instance, the in-game term should take precedence of course. Any such need for disambiguation should always default to the in-game term.


:I cannot make a case ''against'' a separate namespace, as it does have merit. However, I would rather see something like a merge of all the lesser known into a [[List of smashers]] with a small blurb on the items in T:Smasherbeta, as well as other information such as how they've done at tournaments. Obviously, 1300 would be a great deal to merge into one list, so disambig every 3 letters of the alphabet as needed. --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] | [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]] | [http://www.wowpedia.org/User:Sky2042 w]) 22:07, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:I cannot make a case ''against'' a separate namespace, as it does have merit. However, I would rather see something like a merge of all the lesser known into a [List of smashers]] with a small blurb on the items in T:Smasherbeta, as well as other information such as how they've done at tournaments. Obviously, 1300 would be a great deal to merge into one list, so disambig every 3 letters of the alphabet as needed. --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] | [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]] | [http://www.wowpedia.org/User:Sky2042 w]) 22:07, 6 March 2008 (UTC)


::I can't see what Randall00 is so concerned about. It's not as if the pages will be gone. However the great majority of the smasher articles I've seen do not qualify as Smasher articles at all according to the "Professionals" article "A professional gamer is one who regularly makes money off of the game and/or one who is recruited and sponsored by a notable organization, such as MLG." Now can you say that even 1/5 of those articles  meet those qualifications or can be verified in any way? I can see that Randall00 is upset since you wrote many of these pages but the existence of these pages is an easy door for spammers to leave their mark permanently. Browsing through Smashers here are two examples of why I consider the article count misleading: [[LIBF]] [[LuisP]]. One is a '''13''' year old and another is well, LIBF. Kiddies and Crews aren't pros and ff you want me to find more examples I will. That's a real good 1300 pages, isn't it. So something must be done. Sky made a good suggestion. The point is it can't be left the way it is now so tell us what to do. [[User:Bonko24|Bonko24]] 04:37, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
::I can't see what Randall00 is so concerned about. It's not as if the pages will be gone. However the great majority of the smasher articles I've seen do not qualify as Smasher articles at all according to the "Professionals" article "A professional gamer is one who regularly makes money off of the game and/or one who is recruited and sponsored by a notable organization, such as MLG." Now can you say that even 1/5 of those articles  meet those qualifications or can be verified in any way? I can see that Randall00 is upset since you wrote many of these pages but the existence of these pages is an easy door for spammers to leave their mark permanently. Browsing through Smashers here are two examples of why I consider the article count misleading: [[LIBF]] LuisP. One is a '''13''' year old and another is well, LIBF. Kiddies and Crews aren't pros and ff you want me to find more examples I will. That's a real good 1300 pages, isn't it. So something must be done. Sky made a good suggestion. The point is it can't be left the way it is now so tell us what to do. [[User:Bonko24|Bonko24]] 04:37, 7 March 2008 (UTC)


:::This merge happened well before the articles relating to the competitive community were up to a standard that I was proud of and am well aware of how many of the articles still need a lot of work (for instance, it was my intention to delete the absolutely atrocious [[Professionals]] article, so that's about the worst basis of comparison). Not my fault. There's a misconception that I'm upset because ''I'' wrote a lot of the articles which although true, is not the basis of my protest. My contributions are and always have been done in the best interest of the community at large. --[[User:Randall00|Randall00]] 18:31, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
:::This merge happened well before the articles relating to the competitive community were up to a standard that I was proud of and am well aware of how many of the articles still need a lot of work (for instance, it was my intention to delete the absolutely atrocious [[Professionals]] article, so that's about the worst basis of comparison). Not my fault. There's a misconception that I'm upset because ''I'' wrote a lot of the articles which although true, is not the basis of my protest. My contributions are and always have been done in the best interest of the community at large. --[[User:Randall00|Randall00]] 18:31, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
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:I am a bit hesitant to create a new namespace for several reasons.  Firstly, we only get three custom namespaces and as far as I know, their creation cannot be reversed.  If we ever decide to reverse this decision, it might be impossible.  Secondly, the pages attract the wrong type of attention for the wiki.  They encourage people to make vanity pages as opposed to actual content.  Our aim should be to create a reliable, professional wiki that is written from a neutral point of view.  We had similar discussions on the [RuneScape:RuneScape Wiki|RuneScape Wiki]] a while back about [RuneScape:Forum:Delete the Forums|forum usage]] and [http://runescape.wikia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=52&st=0&sk=t&sd=a  personal images].  The forums then were largely used for personal clan recruitment and trades as opposed to discussions on actually improving the site.  Clearly that is what the forums are meant to be.
:I am a bit hesitant to create a new namespace for several reasons.  Firstly, we only get three custom namespaces and as far as I know, their creation cannot be reversed.  If we ever decide to reverse this decision, it might be impossible.  Secondly, the pages attract the wrong type of attention for the wiki.  They encourage people to make vanity pages as opposed to actual content.  Our aim should be to create a reliable, professional wiki that is written from a neutral point of view.  We had similar discussions on the [RuneScape:RuneScape Wiki|RuneScape Wiki]] a while back about [RuneScape:Forum:Delete the Forums|forum usage]] and [http://runescape.wikia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=52&st=0&sk=t&sd=a  personal images].  The forums then were largely used for personal clan recruitment and trades as opposed to discussions on actually improving the site.  Clearly that is what the forums are meant to be.


:If you look at [[Special:Webtools]], you'll see a list of the most common keywords that are searched for on our wiki.  Not one of them is a smasher article.  '''Very few''' readers visit our wiki for that type of material. [[Special:Top/most_visited]] will tell you the same thing.  Overall, our community should be attempting to create articles that will actually interest the readers.  Wikia should be a professional, collaborative effort.  It should not be for pages that will only interest a very limited number of readers. [[User:Dtm142|Dtm142]] 23:27, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
:If you look at Special:Webtools, you'll see a list of the most common keywords that are searched for on our wiki.  Not one of them is a smasher article.  '''Very few''' readers visit our wiki for that type of material. Special:Top/most_visited will tell you the same thing.  Overall, our community should be attempting to create articles that will actually interest the readers.  Wikia should be a professional, collaborative effort.  It should not be for pages that will only interest a very limited number of readers. [[User:Dtm142|Dtm142]] 23:27, 29 March 2008 (UTC)


The 3 custom namespace limit is just so people don't request several, pointless namespaces. Uncyclopedia somehow got away with having 5. I'm all for having the smasher articles in there own namespace. --[[User:Charitwo|Charitwo]] 23:43, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
The 3 custom namespace limit is just so people don't request several, pointless namespaces. Uncyclopedia somehow got away with having 5. I'm all for having the smasher articles in there own namespace. --[[User:Charitwo|Charitwo]] 23:43, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
:Uncyclopedia is on a separate domain and has separate user accounts.  Physically, it is about as affiliated with us as Wikipedia is.  It is one of Wikia's sista projects, but the rules there seem to be slightly different... [[User:Dtm142|Dtm142]] 23:49, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
:Uncyclopedia is on a separate domain and has separate user accounts.  Physically, it is about as affiliated with us as Wikipedia is.  It is one of Wikia's sista projects, but the rules there seem to be slightly different... [[User:Dtm142|Dtm142]] 23:49, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
::i cant think of any more off the top of my head, but only because i havent looked, but the best example of a Wikia wiki having more then 3 is [[w:c:yugioh:Special:Export/Special:Export|yugioh]] --[[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] 23:53, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
::i cant think of any more off the top of my head, but only because i havent looked, but the best example of a Wikia wiki having more then 3 is [w:c:yugioh:Special:Export/Special:Export|yugioh]] --[[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] 23:53, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
:::Just a note from the sidelines: if it would make reaching consensus any easier, just assume that the Smasher namespace would not count against your three namespace limit.  The three additional namespace restriction is a policy restriction rather than a technical one, and because the need for the Smasher namespace would have arisen because of a merge, we wouldn't hold that against you if it ever became an issue. --[[User:KyleH|KyleH]]<staff /> <small>([[User talk:KyleH|talk]])</small> 03:41, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Just a note from the sidelines: if it would make reaching consensus any easier, just assume that the Smasher namespace would not count against your three namespace limit.  The three additional namespace restriction is a policy restriction rather than a technical one, and because the need for the Smasher namespace would have arisen because of a merge, we wouldn't hold that against you if it ever became an issue. --[[User:KyleH|KyleH]]<staff /> <small>([[User talk:KyleH|talk]])</small> 03:41, 1 April 2008 (UTC)


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:I can clear the redirects in a jiffy. As for the search, try searching for that in the smasher namespace. I doubt that will work either, because, last I checked, we have no such article. =) --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]] · [http://www.wowpedia.org/User:Sky2042 w]) 01:37, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:I can clear the redirects in a jiffy. As for the search, try searching for that in the smasher namespace. I doubt that will work either, because, last I checked, we have no such article. =) --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]] · [http://www.wowpedia.org/User:Sky2042 w]) 01:37, 15 April 2008 (UTC)


::Jiff away, if you like. But we definitely ''[[Smasher:Levi|did]]'' have that article. --[[User:Randall00|Randall00]] 01:56, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::Jiff away, if you like. But we definitely ''[Smasher:Levi|did]]'' have that article. --[[User:Randall00|Randall00]] 01:56, 15 April 2008 (UTC)


:::That was the appearance of his name, rather than his actual article location. It was a template. Check the redirects. There's no article at =] redirecting to him, is there? --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]] · [http://www.wowpedia.org/User:Sky2042 w]) 02:24, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:::That was the appearance of his name, rather than his actual article location. It was a template. Check the redirects. There's no article at =] redirecting to him, is there? --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]] · [http://www.wowpedia.org/User:Sky2042 w]) 02:24, 15 April 2008 (UTC)