Talk:Gun / Gun Special

Move? More like, Don't

I oppose moving this article to "Gun / Gun Special." The name says it all - it's just a special Gun. The changes in its function when Arsene appears are minimal, and the names are so similar that I think you'd get exactly zero benefit from listing them both in the title. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Acgamer28 (talk • contribs) 17:11, June 25, 2020)

I thought about this a lot. Since the moves are specifically called by these names, and have ever so slightly different properties; one's a single hit, the other is...kind of a multihit? It's weird. The frame data is also a bit different and there's entire articles specifically for them, so I guess it makes sense, anyway. If Joker's other moves are changed, it would also bode well for consistency. Support. --Plague von Karma 13:27, June 28, 2020 (EDT)

I Support as Plague said so. S3AHAWK (talk) 13:34, July 3, 2020 (EDT)

I still don't feel that moving this article is really necessary. Even though its technical data does change between variants, these changes are minor on a technical and general level. Sure, it's a slightly different animation for a multihit, but nothing major about the animation itself changes. And we shouldn't move an article based on any arbitrary sort of technical data difference - it's not like Gun Special's differences occupy a large section of this article. Considering how silly and redundant the title "Gun / Gun Special" seems, even though some of Joker's other move articles seem like they'll move, this and Eiha are so far the only doublemove casse of them all that I still think are just not worth following through with. Their differences can be covered on their specific technical data pages, but for the main article it just seems too minor. Acgamer28 16:44, July 3, 2020 (EDT)

Oppose as well. The main argument I'd have against it is that "Gun Special" indicates that it's a powered-up version of "Gun", not a separate move; think of it more like "Hadoken" and "Shakunetsu Hadoken". ~ Serena Strawberry (talk) 16:46, July 3, 2020 (EDT)

Didn't catch this earlier. Some counterpoints.

For Acgamer28 The changes are minor, I would agree. However, the animations and properties are changed, which does by definition make a different move, no? The game specifically defines the moves as different on every level, which was my point. There's entire different scripts for the move, you can see for yourself in the data viewer, where it's defined as "Ex". I believe the subjective argument that the changes are minor is a flawed one. It's best to go with what the game says for these subjects, than your own opinion.

For Serena Strawberry If you're going to argue Shakunetsu Hadoken as an example, at least know what it is, what it does and what its purpose is. It's not a "powered up" Hadoken, and in the history of Ryu in fighting games would corroborate with this. It's a multihit that doesn't deal as much damage or knockback in Smash, and works as a combo tool. The move is completely different in every way, except Ryu's movement before letting the Shakunetsu Hadoken out. I seriously don't understand this point and it comes off as a blatant misunderstanding of Ryu as a fighting game character. If Shakunetsu Hadoken is "just a powered up Hadoken", then Hero's Frizzle is just Frizz, with their properties being completely different while coming from the same animation.

--Plague von Karma 09:24, July 22, 2020 (EDT)

Let's not go attacking people here. I do have to admit, though, it is weird to see that one move gets to say "this is a variant of the attack that players have access to, but it is collectively still one move" and another move doesn't. Aidan, the Rurouni 13:18, July 22, 2020 (EDT)