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| On this page I'll iterate over exactly how much of a [[clone]] everyone is.
| | {{notice|{{#if:1|This page is currently being rebooted from scratch. For the previous full version, see [https://www.ssbwiki.com/index.php?title=User:Toomai/Cloneosity&oldid=693171 this revision].}}}} |
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| ==Definition of "clone"==
| | What is a [[clone]]? What is a semi-clone? Is there any meaning to "echo" aside from PR? This page attempts to answer these questions via careful analysis. |
| Luckily for us, both Melee and SSB4 have developer confirmation of who the clones are, and thus what they consider a clone to be. By their definition, no characters are clones except for those on this list:
| |
| *[[Dr. Mario (SSBM)]]
| |
| *[[Young Link (SSBM)]]
| |
| *[[Ganondorf (SSBM)]]
| |
| *[[Falco (SSBM)]]
| |
| *[[Pichu (SSBM)]]
| |
| *[[Roy (SSBM)]]
| |
| *[[Dr. Mario (SSB4)]]
| |
| *[[Lucina (SSB4)]]
| |
| *[[Dark Pit (SSB4)]]
| |
| I think it is fair to say that as a result of this distinction, we can codify the following as a wordy definition for "clone":
| |
| :''A character whose moveset is mostly visually identical to another character's, with a few unique moves, tweaks to physics and shared moves, and special moves of similar if not identical operation.''
| |
| If this definition holds true, we should be able to count up how many moves that a pair of characters share similar animations for (regardless of the attacks' properties, as that's the main way to differentiate clones) in order to determine how much of a clone they are.
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|
| |
|
| (Note that, because SSB4's DLC characters aren't set up this way, we can't really know the devs' call for them. )
| | ==Developer intent== |
| ==Counts== | | For most games, we have official confirmation of which characters the developers consider to be clones. By their definition, the following characters are clones: |
| Notes:
| |
| *Floor and edge attacks are not counted. I see no reason to include them when they're unlikely to be part of a character's main design process.
| |
| *Taunts are also not counted, because there are no clone taunts even amongst the clones. If there were, that would be a huge penalty, given how taunts are trivial compared to attacks.
| |
| *Generally I try to give characters the benefit of the doubt (e.g. Falco's Brawl Reflector is not a clone of Fox's), but if the animation has only changed in speed, or the hitboxes have moved yet the animation is unchanged, no dice.
| |
| *I included a few dumb pairs (like Marth/Ike) to both show how wrong some people are and to gather some data for obvious non-clones.
| |
| *If you think I got something wrong, go to the talk page.
| |
| | |
| Maybe I should upload more control stick images (which I already have made) so I can use their images in these tables.
| |
| ===SSB64===
| |
| {|class="wikitable" | | {|class="wikitable" |
| |- | | |- |
| !Original!!Possible clone | | !{{GameIcon|SSB64}} |
| !Ntr!!Ftl!!Utl!!Dtl!!DAtk!!Fsmh!!Usmh!!Dsmh!!Narl!!Farl!!Barl!!Uarl!!Darl!!Fthw!!Bthw!!NS!!US!!DS | | |Unknown|| |
| !Total!!%
| | |- |
| | !{{GameIcon|SSBM}} |
| | |{{head|Dr. Mario|g=SSBM|s=20x20px}}{{head|Young Link|g=SSBM|s=20x20px}}{{head|Ganondorf|g=SSBM|s=20x20px}}{{head|Falco|g=SSBM|s=20x20px}}{{head|Pichu|g=SSBM|s=20x20px}}{{head|Roy|g=SSBM|s=20x20px}}|| |
| |- | | |- |
| |Mario||Luigi | | !{{GameIcon|SSBB}} |
| |1||1||1||0.5<sup>1</sup>||0||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1
| | |None|| |
| |16.5/18||91.6% | |
| |- | | |- |
| |Samus||Captain Falcon | | !{{GameIcon|SSB4}} |
| |1/3||0.5||1||0.5||1||0||0||1||1||0||0||0||0||0||0||0||0||0 | | |{{head|Dr. Mario|g=SSB4|s=20x20px}}{{head|Lucina|g=SSB4|s=20x20px}}{{head|Dark Pit|g=SSB4|s=20x20px}}||DLC character status is unknown |
| |5.33/18||29.6% | |
| |- | | |- |
| |Kirby||Jigglypuff | | !{{GameIcon|SSBU}} |
| |2/3||1||1||1||1||1||0||0.5||1||0.5||0||0||1||0||1||0||0||0 | | |{{head|Daisy|g=SSBU|s=20x20px}}{{head|Dark Samus|g=SSBU|s=20x20px}}{{head|Lucina|g=SSBU|s=20x20px}}{{head|Chrom|g=SSBU|s=20x20px}}{{head|Dark Pit|g=SSBU|s=20x20px}}{{head|Richter|g=SSBU|s=20x20px}}||potentially more unrevealed |
| |9.67/18||53.7%
| |
| |} | | |} |
| #I can't really call this a 1, but it doesn't feel like a 0 either. Same with most of the other 0.5s.
| | This setup leads to the following wordy but fairly accurate definition of "clone": |
| | :''A clone is a character whose moveset is mostly visually identical to another character's, with most (if not all) attacks and special moves of similar (if not identical) mechanics and operation. Differentiation is primarily by tweaks to physics, alterations to attacks' hitboxes and timings, and unique non-combat animations, though they may also have a few unique moves.'' |
| | |
| | ==System== |
| | This is the system I'm using to determine how much of a clone each character pair is. |
| | *For each attack that the clone shares with its potential parent, add 1 point. Most attacks and special moves are weighted equally. The exceptions are: |
| | **Neutral attacks are worth 1 for the entire combo as a whole. For example, if the first two hits are the same but the third is different, the total score is 2/3. Neutral infinites plus the finisher counts as one part. |
| | **Floor attacks and edge attacks are only worth 0.25, as there is significantly less room for designing such attacks. |
| | *An attack is "shared" if any of these apply: |
| | **The animation is similar or identical. (Does it look the same?) |
| | **The animation is not similar or identical, but the move's function is, or the special move's mechanics and operation are. (Does it do the same thing?) |
| | *In the case of custom special moves: |
| | **If a clone has a different custom than their parent, the move's score is softened by -0.125. So having both customs be different is a soften of -0.25. |
| | **If the clone or their parent has a custom that replicates the other, the move's score is penalized by +0.25. |
| | *An attempt will be made to avoid hedging - a move either is cloned or it isn't, there's no middle ground. But there may very well be cases where it's impossible to accurately describe something with only 0 and 1. If so, there will be an accompanying explanation. |
|
| |
|
| | ==Data== |
| | ===SSB64=== |
| | [to be done] |
| ===SSBM=== | | ===SSBM=== |
| {|class="wikitable"
| | [to be done] |
| |-
| |
| !Original!!Possible clone
| |
| !Ntr!!Ftl!!Utl!!Dtl!!DAtk!!Fsmh!!Usmh!!Dsmh!!Narl!!Farl!!Barl!!Uarl!!Darl!!Pml!!Fthw!!Bthw!!Uthw!!Dthw!!NS!!SS!!US!!DS
| |
| !Total!!%
| |
| |-
| |
| |Mario||Luigi
| |
| |2/3||1||0||0||0||0||1||1||1||0||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||0||1||1
| |
| |15.67/22||71.2%
| |
| |-
| |
| |Mario||Dr. Mario
| |
| |1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1
| |
| |22/22||100.0%
| |
| |-
| |
| |Link||Young Link
| |
| |1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1
| |
| |22/22||100.0%
| |
| |-
| |
| |Fox||Falco
| |
| |1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1
| |
| |22/22||100.0%
| |
| |-
| |
| |Pikachu||Pichu
| |
| |1||1||1||1||1||1||0||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1
| |
| |21/22||95.4%
| |
| |-
| |
| |Captain Falcon||Ganondorf
| |
| |0||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||0||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1
| |
| |20/22||90.9%
| |
| |-
| |
| |Marth||Roy
| |
| |1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1
| |
| |22/22||100.0%
| |
| |}
| |
| ===SSBB=== | | ===SSBB=== |
| {|class="wikitable"
| | [to be done] |
| |-
| |
| !Original!!Possible clone
| |
| !Ntr!!Ftl!!Utl!!Dtl!!DAtk!!Fsmh!!Usmh!!Dsmh!!Narl!!Farl!!Barl!!Uarl!!Darl!!Pml!!Fthw!!Bthw!!Uthw!!Dthw!!NS!!SS!!US!!DS!!FS
| |
| !Total!!%
| |
| |-
| |
| |Mario||Luigi
| |
| |2/3||1||0||0||0||0||1||1||1||0||1||1||0||1||1||1||1||1||1||0||1||0||0
| |
| |13.67/23||59.4%
| |
| |-
| |
| |Link||Toon Link
| |
| |1||1||1||1||1||1||0||1||0||0||0||1||1||1||0||0||1||1||1||1||1||1||1
| |
| |17/23||73.9%
| |
| |-
| |
| |Fox||Falco
| |
| |2/3||1||0||1||1||0||1||1||0||0||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||0||1
| |
| |17.67/23||76.8%
| |
| |-
| |
| |Fox||Wolf
| |
| |0||0||0||0||0||0||0||0||0||0||1||0||0||1||0||0||0||0||0.5<sup>1</sup>||1||1||1||1
| |
| |6.5/23||28.2%
| |
| |-
| |
| |Captain Falcon||Ganondorf
| |
| |0||0.5<sup>2</sup>||1||0.5<sup>2</sup>||1||1||0||1||1||0||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||0||1||1||0
| |
| |17/23||73.9%
| |
| |-
| |
| |Ness||Lucas
| |
| |1/3||0||0||0.5<sup>2</sup>||0.5<sup>2</sup>||1||0||0||0||0||0||1||1||1||0||0||0||0||1||1||1||1||1
| |
| |10.33/23||44.9%
| |
| |-
| |
| |Marth||Ike
| |
| |0||0||0||0||0||0||0||0.5||0||0||0||0||0||0||0||0||0||0||0.2||0||0||1||0
| |
| |1.7/23||7.3%
| |
| |}
| |
| #Can't be rapid-fired (less cloned), but is still an energy blast from a futuristic gun. Undecided.
| |
| #Still the same basic attack, but executed differently. Could go either way.
| |
| ===SSB4=== | | ===SSB4=== |
| Having different customizations weakens a special move's clone score by 0.25 (the default move is still a clone). I'm not 100% on this as-is, but I do feel that having different customs should count for something. In the case of Ness, who has all four of Lucas's default specials as some of his custom specials, he gets a penalty of 0.25 for each move. I am unsure whether to apply this to other characters, because all other such cases are significantly less obvious.
| | [to be done] |
| {|class="wikitable"
| | ===SSBU=== |
| |-
| | [to be done post-release] |
| !Original!!Possible clone
| |
| !Ntr!!Ftl!!Utl!!Dtl!!DAtk!!Fsmh!!Usmh!!Dsmh!!Narl!!Farl!!Barl!!Uarl!!Darl!!Pml!!Fthw!!Bthw!!Uthw!!Dthw!!NS!!SS!!US!!DS!!FS
| |
| !Total!!%
| |
| |-
| |
| |Mario||Luigi
| |
| |2/3||1||0||0||0||0||1||1||1||0||1||1||0||1||1||1||1||0||2/3||0||0.75||0||0
| |
| |12.083/23||52.5%
| |
| |-
| |
| |Mario||Dr. Mario
| |
| |1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||0||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||0||1
| |
| |21/23||91.3%
| |
| |-
| |
| |Luigi||Dr. Mario
| |
| |2/3||1||0||0||0||0||1||1||1||0||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||0||2/3||0||0.75||1||0
| |
| |14.083/23||61.2%*
| |
| |-
| |
| |Link||Toon Link
| |
| |1||1||1||1||0||1||0||1||0||0||0||1||1||1||0||0||1||1||0.75||0.75||0.75||0.75||1
| |
| |15/23||65.2%
| |
| |-
| |
| |Fox||Falco
| |
| |2/3||1||0||1||1||0||1||1||0||0||1||0.5<sup>1</sup>||1||1||1||1||1||1||0.75||0.75||0.75||0||1
| |
| |16.4167/23||71.4%
| |
| |-
| |
| |Mewtwo||Lucario
| |
| |0||0||0||0||0||0.5||0.25||0||0||0||0||0||0||0||0||0||0||0||1||0||0||0||0
| |
| |1.75/23||7.6%
| |
| |-
| |
| |Captain Falcon||Ganondorf
| |
| |0||0.5||1||0.5||1||1||0||1||1||0||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||0.75||0||0.75||0.75||0
| |
| |16.25/23||70.7%
| |
| |-
| |
| |Ness||Lucas
| |
| |1/3||0||0||0.5||0.5||1||0||0||0||0||0||1||1||1||0||0||0||0||1.25||1.25||1.25||1.25||1
| |
| |11.33/23||49.3%
| |
| |-
| |
| |Marth||Lucina
| |
| |1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1
| |
| |23/23||100.0%
| |
| |-
| |
| |Marth||Roy
| |
| |1/2||0||1||1||1||0||1||1||1||1||1||1||0||1||1||1||1||1||0.25<sup>2</sup>||1||1||1||0.25<sup>3</sup>
| |
| |18/23||78.3%
| |
| |-
| |
| |Pit||Dark Pit
| |
| |1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||1||0
| |
| |22/23||95.6%
| |
| |}
| |
| #Mostly the same motion, but at a different angle and without the first hitbox.
| |
| #Very difficult to call, since Marth's changed in animation in Roy's Brawl absence, but the fundamental move is the same.
| |
| #As far as Final Smashes go, Roy's is more like Meta Knight's than Marth's, but the name and FE lifebar thing shows clear intent to be similar.
| |
| | |
| <nowiki>*</nowiki> Won't be included in the analysis section (it's not a valid clone pair), but it's still interesting to note.
| |
|
| |
|
| ==Analysis== | | ==Analysis== |
| By taking the data at face value, we actually get pretty nice categories that match what the devs seem to have intended.
| | [to be done] |
| | |
| {|class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
| |
| |-
| |
| !colspan=4|Non-clone!!colspan=12|Semi-clone!!colspan=6|Clone
| |
| |-
| |
| |style="background:#91ff7f;"|7.3%<br/>{{head|Ike|g=SSBB|s=20x20px}}<br/>{{head|Marth|g=SSBB|s=20x20px}}
| |
| |style="background:#92ff7f;"|7.6%<br/>{{head|Lucario|g=SSB4|s=20x20px}}<br/>{{head|Mewtwo|g=SSB4|s=20x20px}}
| |
| |style="background:#c7ff7f;"|28.2%<br/>{{head|Wolf|g=SSBB|s=20x20px}}<br/>{{head|Fox|g=SSBB|s=20x20px}}
| |
| |style="background:#caff7f;"|29.6%<br/>{{head|Captain Falcon|g=SSB|s=20x20px}}<br/>{{head|Samus|g=SSB|s=20x20px}}
| |
| |style="background:#f1ff7f;"|44.9%<br/>{{head|Lucas|g=SSBB|s=20x20px}}<br/>{{head|Ness|g=SSBB|s=20x20px}}
| |
| |style="background:#fdff7f;"|49.3%<br/>{{head|Lucas|g=SSB4|s=20x20px}}<br/>{{head|Ness|g=SSB4|s=20x20px}}
| |
| |style="background:#fff87f;"|52.5%<br/>{{head|Luigi|g=SSB4|s=20x20px}}<br/>{{head|Mario|g=SSB4|s=20x20px}}
| |
| |style="background:#fff57f;"|53.7%<br/>{{head|Jigglypuff|g=SSB|s=20x20px}}<br/>{{head|Kirby|g=SSB|s=20x20px}}
| |
| |style="background:#ffe67f;"|59.4%<br/>{{head|Luigi|g=SSBB|s=20x20px}}<br/>{{head|Mario|g=SSBB|s=20x20px}}
| |
| |style="background:#ffd87f;"|65.2%<br/>{{head|Toon Link|g=SSB4|s=20x20px}}<br/>{{head|Link|g=SSB4|s=20x20px}}
| |
| |style="background:#ffca7f;"|70.7%<br/>{{head|Ganondorf|g=SSB4|s=20x20px}}<br/>{{head|Captain Falcon|g=SSB4|s=20x20px}}
| |
| |style="background:#ffc87f;"|71.2%<br/>{{head|Luigi|g=SSBM|s=20x20px}}<br/>{{head|Mario|g=SSBM|s=20x20px}}
| |
| |style="background:#ffc87f;"|71.4%<br/>{{head|Falco|g=SSB4|s=20x20px}}<br/>{{head|Fox|g=SSB4|s=20x20px}}
| |
| |style="background:#ffc17f;"|73.9%<br/>{{head|Toon Link|g=SSBB|s=20x20px}}{{head|Ganondorf|g=SSBB|s=20x20px}}<br/>{{head|Link|g=SSBB|s=20x20px}}{{head|Captain Falcon|g=SSBB|s=20x20px}}
| |
| |style="background:#ffba7f;"|76.8%<br/>{{head|Falco|g=SSBB|s=20x20px}}<br/>{{head|Fox|g=SSBB|s=20x20px}}
| |
| |style="background:#ffb17f;"|78.3%<br/>{{head|Roy|g=SSB4|s=20x20px}}<br/>{{head|Marth|g=SSB4|s=20x20px}}
| |
| |style="background:#ff967f;"|90.9%<br/>{{head|Ganondorf|g=SSBM|s=20x20px}}<br/>{{head|Captain Falcon|g=SSBM|s=20x20px}}
| |
| |style="background:#ff957f;"|91.3%<br/>{{head|Dr. Mario|g=SSB4|s=20x20px}}<br/>{{head|Mario|g=SSB4|s=20x20px}}
| |
| |style="background:#ff947f;"|91.6%<br/>{{head|Luigi|g=SSB|s=20x20px}}<br/>{{head|Mario|g=SSB|s=20x20px}}
| |
| |style="background:#ff8a7f;"|95.4%<br/>{{head|Pichu|g=SSBM|s=20x20px}}<br/>{{head|Pikachu|g=SSBM|s=20x20px}}
| |
| |style="background:#ff8a7f;"|95.6%<br/>{{head|Dark Pit|g=SSB4|s=20x20px}}<br/>{{head|Pit|g=SSB4|s=20x20px}}
| |
| |style="background:#ff7f7f;"|100.0%<br/>{{head|Dr. Mario|g=SSBM|s=20px}}{{head|Young Link|g=SSBM|s=20x20px}}{{head|Falco|g=SSBM|s=20x20px}}{{head|Roy|g=SSBM|s=20x20px}}{{head|Lucina|g=SSB4|s=20x20px}}<br/>{{head|Mario|g=SSBM|s=20px}}{{head|Link|g=SSBM|s=20x20px}}{{head|Fox|g=SSBM|s=20x20px}}{{head|Marth|g=SSBM|s=20x20px}}{{head|Marth|g=SSB4|s=20x20px}}
| |
| |-
| |
| |colspan=4|0%-30%
| |
| |colspan=12|40%-80%
| |
| |colspan=6|90%-100%
| |
| |}
| |
| So as it stands now, you need to share ~40% of attack animations to be a semi-clone and ~90% to be a full clone. There are currently gaps between 30%-40% and 80%-90%, so if any future comparisons end up in there, things get more precise (and controversial).
| |
