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| :Falco's strengths lie in the fact that he has the best combos and pressure in the game. Yes Falco's shine is better at combo'ing that Fox's. It keeps you above Falco so he can continue hitting you. (Fox's shine is reset oriented, only hit confirming into single, strong hits.) However Falco is a slow character with rather poor movement options compared to Marth, Fox, or Falcon. Also unlike his brother Fox, Falco cannot win that many mixups outside laser spacing because of this aforementioned lack of movement options. Short wavedash, short dash dance, and slow running speed means he can't kite anything and then run back to punish. Falco also has limited anti air options, since he lacks Fox's dash dance. And finally if Falco mistimes his pressure and lets people go, he cannot escape the ensuing punishment. He also has what might be the worse recovery in the game, generally ensuring whatever punishment he got kills him. | | :Falco's strengths lie in the fact that he has the best combos and pressure in the game. Yes Falco's shine is better at combo'ing that Fox's. It keeps you above Falco so he can continue hitting you. (Fox's shine is reset oriented, only hit confirming into single, strong hits.) However Falco is a slow character with rather poor movement options compared to Marth, Fox, or Falcon. Also unlike his brother Fox, Falco cannot win that many mixups outside laser spacing because of this aforementioned lack of movement options. Short wavedash, short dash dance, and slow running speed means he can't kite anything and then run back to punish. Falco also has limited anti air options, since he lacks Fox's dash dance. And finally if Falco mistimes his pressure and lets people go, he cannot escape the ensuing punishment. He also has what might be the worse recovery in the game, generally ensuring whatever punishment he got kills him. |
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| :The Street Fighter esqe design of characters with significant strengths balanced by significant weaknesses was generally well done in Melee (at least among the tournament viable characters) and adds to that thrill I tried to describe in the first 2 paragraphs. It's such a shame we'll never see these designs re-implemented in newer games. (Seriously why can't he at least pay homage to them?). | | :The Street Fighter esqe design of characters with significant strengths balanced by significant weaknesses was generally well done in Melee (at least among the tournament viable characters) and adds to that thrill I tried to describe in the first 2 paragraphs. It's such a shame we'll never see these designs re-implemented in newer games. (Seriously |
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| :I won't deny that Melee has significant flaws. Yes, there could have been more characters with designs just like the top 7. Yes, we could have had a stage list with at least 7 neutrals and more than 1 counterpick. I'll take this time to address your BF clone issue. At mid to high level play, these stages become BF clones only superficially. Marth's best stage in most matchups is Yoshi's, but his worse stage is dreamland. The different platform heights and the length of the stage and blastlines all cause significant gameplay differences. Remember how I said how movement defines Melee? That is why. Marth can control significantly more space on Yoshi's than Dreamland. Fox has more room and platforms to abuse his movement and stay safe on Dreamland, whereas on Fountain, his movement is much less safe and therefore much less significant. | | :I won't deny that Melee has significant flaws. Yes, there could have been more characters with designs just like the top 7. Yes, we could have had a stage list with at least 7 neutrals and more than 1 counterpick. I'll take this time to address your BF clone issue. At mid to high level play, these stages become BF clones only superficially. Marth's best stage in most matchups is Yoshi's, but his worse stage is dreamland. The different platform heights and the length of the stage and blastlines all cause significant gameplay differences. Remember how I said how movement defines Melee? That is why. Marth can control significantly more space on Yoshi's than Dreamland. Fox has more room and platforms to abuse his movement and stay safe on Dreamland, whereas on Fountain, his movement is much less safe and therefore much less significant. |
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| :But even so, for a game deemed to be "Nintendo's Perfect Little Accident," 7 relatively balanced characters with arguably the most movement of any fighting game in the world, Melee did more than just "solidly enough." A love that remains poignant for 13 years doesn't come from 1 game being slightly sharper than the rest. Indeed, what makes Melee amazing are the things that separate from the rest of the series, not the elements or primitive engine shared with the rest of the games. It is something truly special. It isn't just "another smash bros" game. It's our game, the Melee Community's game. To kill it, would be to mark the end of the Melee Community. --<span style="background-color:#6d84e1;border:3px solid silver">[[User:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:silver">'''Brian'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:black">Don't try me!</span>]]</sup>[[File:Falco.gif|link=|27px]]</span> 19:26, 30 April 2014 (EDT) | | :But even so, for a game deemed to be "Nintendo's Perfect Little Accident," 7 relatively balanced characters with arguably the most movement of any fighting game in the world, Melee did more than just "solidly enough." Indeed what makes Melee amazing are the things that separate from the rest of the series, not the elements or primitive engine shared with the rest of the games. --<span style="background-color:#6d84e1;border:3px solid silver">[[User:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:silver">'''Brian'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:black">Don't try me!</span>]]</sup>[[File:Falco.gif|link=|27px]]</span> 19:26, 30 April 2014 (EDT) |
| ::"''Melee did more than just "solidly enough." Indeed what makes Melee amazing are the things that separate from the rest of the series, not the elements or primitive engine shared with the rest of the games.''"
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| ::Hmmmm, what's one of the things you claim yourself and hold against Brawl most? How it almost killed Melee during its release and following couple of years of existence. Why didn't Melee die? Not because Melee is some super special egg of a game that can never be replicated or ever surpassed, but because questionable changes in Brawl and some other problems soured many people, who went back to Melee to get their Smash fix. If Brawl didn't have those problems, much less of those players would have went back to Melee, and Melee would have thus been left in a Smash 64 state, having a niche scene that is only played by the die hard genwunners and people curious to try the old in throwback events. You are absolutely delusional if you think Melee would have revitalised and stuck around as well as it does now, and get back into EVO and MLG, regardless of how well Brawl was received competitively (and hell, Melee didn't get back into EVO from its own merits nor even from just its own community).
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| ::The rest of your essay is a giant wall of peacocking and fluff fellating Melee that anyone else could come up with for the other Smash games if given some time, what I said still stands. Do you seriously have some sort of issue that makes it impossible for you to adapt to anything the slightest bit different from what you're used to? Or are you just that abhorred to any potential change that you rather just play the same old unbalanced game on the same old shitty small crts whose scene is going to inevitably decline again, rather than learn a new character and some new mechanics and maybe how to use a slightly different controller? Seriously, why the hell would you not want to play a new Smash game, that is at the very least, about as good as Melee if a bit different gameplay wise, while having the potential to be so much more balanced with such a better roster and having so much more content and being so much nicer aesthetically while not having to play on outdated hardware anymore, all the while playing in a scene that has so much more potential to be even bigger than any previous Smash scene?
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| ::"''It's our game, the Melee Community's game. To kill it, would be to mark the end of the Melee Community.''"
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| ::Or you know, it marks the advent of the greater more prosperous Smash community, where the Melee and Brawl communities live on, that is truly #oneunit, instead of being a split trying to act like they play something completely different from each other, and just hurting the Smash community as a whole. Seriously, moving on to a new entry in the series doesn't mark the absolute end, your community is fucking living on in the new entry, along with all your experiences and work. You're not moving on to a completely different game series where you truly start anew with completely different people and completely erase everything that ever happened, you're just playing the next entry '''''in the same series you have been playing this whole time'''''. Stop thinking in terms of "Melee", and start thinking in terms of "Smash". <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 20:29, 30 April 2014 (EDT)
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| This discussion is serving no purpose. I suggest it be broken off before I have to break it off. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Glow 21:04, 30 April 2014 (EDT)
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| :I pretty much said all that there can be said, so I have no interest of continuing it on. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 21:10, 30 April 2014 (EDT)
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| :::You've been working off the assumption that people play Melee because it's just another game in the Smash Bros series. The point of my essay was to tell you '''that is wrong'''. Melee has this indescribable, special, and timeless thrill to it. I play Melee for that thrill, not because of the smash bros engine. Yes, brawl almost killed Melee, but remember people moved onto brawl under the assumption it would have that same magic touch as Melee. But it didn't. Sure I'll play Smash 4. It may be fun or it may not be. But I'm confident it won't have Melee's special feel to it. Melee players really fucking love to play Melee. The scenario I think will happen is that Smash 4 turns out like PM. PM in its beginning was well received by the majority of both communities. It had this air of freshness that temporarily drew people (me included) away from Melee. It was fun for awhile. I had my Melee Marth, I had Melee mechanics, and yes I was able to adapt to a few of the new matchups, but still the game always felt a little awkward and eventually I got bored and realized I still had more fun with regular Melee.
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| :::Dr. PP described it best in his AMAs. "P:M confuses me. It doesn't feel like Melee and they take away some things I really enjoy about Melee like dumb Fox shine invincibility lol. P:M is a good idea that frustrates me sometimes but I also don't fully understand it or where it's going haha." That was the answer I couldn't quite put in words: PM doesn't feel like Melee. It too lacks that special thrill we're looking for. I'll also note that each subsequent build of PM past 2.5b felt less and less like Melee and became a game built on gimmicks as opposed to well designed characters like the Melee top tiers. So yes, that does add credibility to the possibility that Melee would have had a strong tournament scene without Brawl being as bad as it was.
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| :::I'll conclude by reiterating my statement that the Melee Community keeps playing Melee because that special feel the other games lack. I suppose you'll never understand though since you won't play Melee like I do. I don't know if you actually analyzed my essay, but within the hyperbole I tried to communicate Melee's uniqueness with, I actually did address your points in the response above my essays. Within a cast you deem shitty there are 7 well designed characters 2 of which I tried to demonstrate. And I'll say it again, Melee has a timeless feel that keeps it's community glued together. They won't get bored soon. Melee really is the life and blood of the community. It's our identity. You can't replace that with Smash 4. (BTW #OneUnit is NorCal's trademark for doubles synergy. It was stolen without permission).--<span style="background-color:#6d84e1;border:3px solid silver">[[User:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:silver">'''Brian'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:black">Don't try me!</span>]]</sup>[[File:Falco.gif|link=|27px]]</span> 21:49, 30 April 2014 (EDT)
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| ::::I wouldn't buy and enjoy SSB4 if it was just Super Smash Bros. Melee: Expansion Pack. Just saying. If you were trying to get at anything besides that, the topic is clearly going nowhere. <span style="font-family:Forte">[[User:Megatron1|<span style="color:maroon">Mega</span>]][[User talk:Megatron1|<span style="color:silver">Tron1</span>]][[User:Megatron1/Laughology|<span style="color:blue">XD</span>]]</span>[[File:Decepticon.png|19px]] 23:08, 30 April 2014 (EDT)
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