Editing User talk:Cookies and Creme
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:This is completely on me because what I meant to say is that some of the characters that define the current metagame have tools that abuses Ness's worst weaknesses while they can also deal with Ness's projectile game, one of his best strengths. I'll try to give more context to this in future revisions. That being said, taking sets off a character does not necessarily mean the character is a good matchup. For example, Gackt's lifetime record against KEN is 3-17, and while a lot definitely is with Sephiroth, if we take the sets from before Sephiroth (or at least before 2022) it's even worse, at 1-12. | :This is completely on me because what I meant to say is that some of the characters that define the current metagame have tools that abuses Ness's worst weaknesses while they can also deal with Ness's projectile game, one of his best strengths. I'll try to give more context to this in future revisions. That being said, taking sets off a character does not necessarily mean the character is a good matchup. For example, Gackt's lifetime record against KEN is 3-17, and while a lot definitely is with Sephiroth, if we take the sets from before Sephiroth (or at least before 2022) it's even worse, at 1-12. | ||
::"I think it's important to provide context for LumiRank's tier list. It's only one tier list, and it was heavily criticized by top players on social media." | ::"I think it's important to provide context for LumiRank's tier list. It's only one tier list, and it was heavily criticized by top players on social media." | ||
:All tier lists have their fair share of criticism, like if I remember correctly the fourth Smash 4 tier list was blasted for some of its inaccuracies, but that's what comes with tier lists. As such, it's kind of pointless to say how the tier list was heavily criticized because all tier lists are heavily criticized to a certain degree, especially for a game like Ultimate where you have to rank 82 characters and have opinions from the entire world. In addition, I have seen a lot of the online criticism but some of it is rooted in misconceptions (like the belief that the one score that had Incineroar as 5th was counted where it was actually removed) so I do wonder whether they are valid criticisms or just uninformed, and top players can be very much uninformed (examples being Leo and Aaron not knowing who Yoshidora is and MVD still thinking Japan had a multiplier going into 2024 when the major Japanese regions haven't had one since 2020). | :All tier lists have their fair share of criticism, like if I remember correctly the fourth Smash 4 tier list was blasted for some of its inaccuracies, but that's what comes with tier lists. As such, it's kind of pointless to say how the tier list was heavily criticized because all tier lists are heavily criticized to a certain degree, especially for a game like Ultimate where you have to rank 82 characters and have opinions from the entire world. In addition, I have seen a lot of the online criticism but some of it is rooted in misconceptions (like the belief that the one score that had Incineroar as 5th was counted where it was actually removed) so I do wonder whether they are valid criticisms or just uninformed, and top players can be very much uninformed (examples being Leo and Aaron not knowing who Yoshidora is and MVD still thinking Japan had a multiplier going into 2024 when the major Japanese regions haven't had one since 2020). Questions like this is why the wiki should [[SW:NPOV|try to have a more neutral point of view]] on a subject like this especially when this is the only tier list we can really accept: the other alternatives either have dubious sources (such as Game8 or EventHubs, if the latter is still a thing) or are just personal tier lists. At least LumiRank has a fully explained algorithm and was done by people with actual credentials, and if there are any super major criticisms (on the level of people criticising Smash 4's first tier list as being too early, which led to many abstaining their vote), it should be mentioned on the tier list's own page. | ||
This about sums up why I made my edits. I do admit there are going to be things that you can improve in what I wrote, but I don't believe fully reverting it is a better alternative, especially since there should still be context as to why Ness fell from 40th to 47th between the two tier lists, which is still a decently large drop. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 17:06, February 23, 2024 (EST) | This about sums up why I made my edits. I do admit there are going to be things that you can improve in what I wrote, but I don't believe fully reverting it is a better alternative, especially since there should still be context as to why Ness fell from 40th to 47th between the two tier lists, which is still a decently large drop. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 17:06, February 23, 2024 (EST) | ||
