Editing Template talk:Infobox Smasher
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== The Skill parameter, again == | == The Skill parameter, again == | ||
{{proposal | {{proposal}} | ||
Recently we changed our skill level terminology and introduced a new skill level between "top level and "high level" called "upper high level", to distinguish between the players that are truly a threat to win majors, and the rest of the top 100ish players, while drastically cutting down on the wiki's overuse of labelling players "top level" (or "top professional" as they were called before). However, where the line is drawn for "top level" has been controversial, with frequent edit wars over it and complaints from outside the wiki. With "skill level" being so subjective, there is no remotely universally agreeable answer for it, so no matter where we draw the line for our skill levels, trying to maintain them will continue to be a big headache, especially when people are so invested in seeing themselves, their friends, and their favorite players being called "top level" or whatever the most desirable skill level rating is. There is also the issue between "peak skill level" and "current skill level", where it's not immediately clear what the skill rating in the infobox is for, and trying to maintain them as separate infobox parameters would add another layer of complication with maintaining an already highly contentious infobox parameter. | Recently we changed our skill level terminology and introduced a new skill level between "top level and "high level" called "upper high level", to distinguish between the players that are truly a threat to win majors, and the rest of the top 100ish players, while drastically cutting down on the wiki's overuse of labelling players "top level" (or "top professional" as they were called before). However, where the line is drawn for "top level" has been controversial, with frequent edit wars over it and complaints from outside the wiki. With "skill level" being so subjective, there is no remotely universally agreeable answer for it, so no matter where we draw the line for our skill levels, trying to maintain them will continue to be a big headache, especially when people are so invested in seeing themselves, their friends, and their favorite players being called "top level" or whatever the most desirable skill level rating is. There is also the issue between "peak skill level" and "current skill level", where it's not immediately clear what the skill rating in the infobox is for, and trying to maintain them as separate infobox parameters would add another layer of complication with maintaining an already highly contentious infobox parameter. | ||
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:'''Oppose'''. I agree with what a lot of Tacho said about the skill level being a quick shorthand and I don't think the replacements would be nearly as useful or intuitive for readers, especially the "best tournament result" parameter. The vast majority of the debate right now is what is considered "Top level" and I think the parameter is useful enough that that we'd be better off attempting to change it's requirements to match the community's wider interpretation of the term rather than scrapping the whole thing. Something like a blanket top -number- on global PR = Top level I really don't see any issues with and is way easier to point to as objective. Could be top 50, 30, 10, 100, or whatever depending on the game, and could even change based on the year, ex. top 30 SSBBRank 2014 but only top 10 for 2023 -- the "backend" can be as convoluted as it needs to be so long as it makes the actual presentation good. The old requirement would still be used as a default if someone isn't ranked/hasn't been ranked yet. Only problem I could see with this is that the cutoff is arbitrary, but so is the term "top level" itself, and there has to be a cutoff somewhere. [[User:Levii|Levii]] ([[User talk:Levii|talk]]) 03:21, January 27, 2024 (EST) | :'''Oppose'''. I agree with what a lot of Tacho said about the skill level being a quick shorthand and I don't think the replacements would be nearly as useful or intuitive for readers, especially the "best tournament result" parameter. The vast majority of the debate right now is what is considered "Top level" and I think the parameter is useful enough that that we'd be better off attempting to change it's requirements to match the community's wider interpretation of the term rather than scrapping the whole thing. Something like a blanket top -number- on global PR = Top level I really don't see any issues with and is way easier to point to as objective. Could be top 50, 30, 10, 100, or whatever depending on the game, and could even change based on the year, ex. top 30 SSBBRank 2014 but only top 10 for 2023 -- the "backend" can be as convoluted as it needs to be so long as it makes the actual presentation good. The old requirement would still be used as a default if someone isn't ranked/hasn't been ranked yet. Only problem I could see with this is that the cutoff is arbitrary, but so is the term "top level" itself, and there has to be a cutoff somewhere. [[User:Levii|Levii]] ([[User talk:Levii|talk]]) 03:21, January 27, 2024 (EST) | ||
:'''Oppose'''. As much as the skill level parameter has been a headache, a controversial topic that causes multiple discourses I don't believe it should be completely axed. It is still somewhat a quick and easy indicator of sombody's skill at their peak. Is it possible for these new parameters to co-exist with the current skill one? Or maybe we should implement another new label "Botherline top level" to compromise anyone that's barely off but honestly idk at this point. [[File:Grand Dad.png|23x20px]] [[User:NaughtyPigMario|<span style="color: red;">'''NPM'''</span>]] [[User talk:NaughtyPigMario|''<span style="color: blue;">Morr!?</span>'']] [[File:NaughtyPigBoi.jpg|23x20px]] 06:21, January 27, 2024 (EST) | :'''Oppose'''. As much as the skill level parameter has been a headache, a controversial topic that causes multiple discourses I don't believe it should be completely axed. It is still somewhat a quick and easy indicator of sombody's skill at their peak. Is it possible for these new parameters to co-exist with the current skill one? Or maybe we should implement another new label "Botherline top level" to compromise anyone that's barely off but honestly idk at this point. [[File:Grand Dad.png|23x20px]] [[User:NaughtyPigMario|<span style="color: red;">'''NPM'''</span>]] [[User talk:NaughtyPigMario|''<span style="color: blue;">Morr!?</span>'']] [[File:NaughtyPigBoi.jpg|23x20px]] 06:21, January 27, 2024 (EST) | ||
::@Tacho: | ::@Tacho: | ||
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::::This is just introducing inconsistency that is completely unacceptable, and it still is not going to solve the issue of people constantly trying to edit war over who should be labelled "top level" (or even "upper high level" or "high level" for players that were never globally ranked but still want their skill listing to present them as good as possible). <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[File: TyranitarMS.png ]] 19:58, January 28, 2024 (EST) | ::::This is just introducing inconsistency that is completely unacceptable, and it still is not going to solve the issue of people constantly trying to edit war over who should be labelled "top level" (or even "upper high level" or "high level" for players that were never globally ranked but still want their skill listing to present them as good as possible). <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[File: TyranitarMS.png ]] 19:58, January 28, 2024 (EST) | ||
I believe our main issue right now is how to define "top level", and really I think the way the wiki looks at it is different than what the larger ''Smash'' community sees it. | I believe our main issue right now is how to define "top level", and really I think the way the wiki looks at it is different than what the larger ''Smash'' community sees it. | ||
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'''Support''' While I'm not sold on replacing the parameters with new ones, I think it's an improvement and I'm full supportive of removing the skill parameter. [[User:Wiifitkid|Wiifitkid]] ([[User talk:Wiifitkid|talk]]) 12:33, January 28, 2024 (EST) | '''Support''' While I'm not sold on replacing the parameters with new ones, I think it's an improvement and I'm full supportive of removing the skill parameter. [[User:Wiifitkid|Wiifitkid]] ([[User talk:Wiifitkid|talk]]) 12:33, January 28, 2024 (EST) | ||