Editing Template talk:Characters

==Playable/Non-playable==

Is there going to be a non-playable section added to this? If not, why does it say "playable" and if so, is it possible to have multiple show/hide controls on different parts of a template table? --<font color="000023">'''[[User:Randall00|RJM]]'''</font> <sup>''[[User talk:Randall00|Talk]]''</sup> 17:55, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

== R.O.B. ==

The current link in the template leads to Robotic Operating Buddy. Maybe the link should be changed to [[R.O.B. (SSBB)]] so as to link to the fighter in Smash Bros. [[User:Manga Maniac|Manga Maniac]] ([[User talk:Manga Maniac|talk]]) 18:59, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

== All chars at ABC ==
I've set ALL chars at the ABC. This was simple to find them, I thought. Do you agree? <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:86.92.255.223|86.92.255.223]] ([[User talk:86.92.255.223|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/86.92.255.223|contribs]]) 10:15, 26 January 2014 (EST)</small>
:It's certainly better that whatever non-order they were in before. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Sphere 10:20, 26 January 2014 (EST)

==Koopalings and Alph==
I think since they're considered separate characters, they should each get their names on here in parenthesis or put a / between them. [[User:Ma321|Ma321]] ([[User talk:Ma321|talk]]) 20:33, 3 October 2014 (EST)

Perhaps an "Alternate Costume Characters" or a similarly-named Category could help out here. [[User:UltraBubbles|UltraBubbles]] ([[User talk:UltraBubbles|talk]]) 03:21, 15 October 2014 (EDT)

Speaking of Alph, I'm not sure about his current positioning since he didn't debut in Brawl with Olimar. Thoughts? --[[User:Menshay|Menshay]] ([[User talk:Menshay|talk]]) 16:27, 19 June 2015 (EDT)
:I think it's fine. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:Nutta Butta|Nutta.]] </small>  16:28, 19 June 2015 (EDT)
:It's better than having him float weirdly on his own in parentheses on the SSB4 line. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 16:43, 19 June 2015 (EDT)
:I think that UltraBubble's suggestion would be the best option. Maybe "Alternate Costumes in SSB4" would work? [[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: lime">'''Nyargle'''</span><span style="color: orange">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Nyargleblargle|Talk]]) 16:47, 19 June 2015 (EDT)
::I would consider supporting an "alts" line if there were more than two. As it stands though, that's not really needed. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 16:50, 19 June 2015 (EDT)
:I agree with nutta. This is fine. [[User:Serpent_King|<span style="color:#008833; text-shadow:-1px -1px #00bb77;">'''Serpent King'''</span>]] [[User talk:Serpent_King|(<span style="color: blue;">talk</span>)]] 16:49, 19 June 2015 (EDT)
::Technically speaking there are nine. You could also include female Robin, male WFT, and each individual Villager (since they are all different characters in their home game), which brings us up to 18. Then we also have Polari and the Luma character, which is 20 total.
::Is that too much of a stretch though? <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:Nutta Butta|Nutta.]] </small>  16:56, 19 June 2015 (EDT)
:::I think we should stick to the idea of not giving alt. costume characters their own pages unless the announced calls them separately. The male/female alts. don't meet that criteria outside of dubs in gendered languages. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 17:01, 19 June 2015 (EDT)
:Does anyone think that the Koopalings and Alph should receive some sort of recognition on the "characters" page? Or at least a mention possibly with Bowser Jr. and Olimar respectively to coincide with the directory? [[User:UltraBubbles|UltraBubbles]] ([[User talk:UltraBubbles|talk]]) 02:19, 23 June 2015 (EDT)

== Mii Fighter Variants and Alph ==

Why were they removed? Are they not playable characters? Also, Alph didn't debut in Brawl [[User:Smore|Smore]] ([[User talk:Smore|talk]]) 15:19, 15 February 2016 (EST)
:Idk about the Fighter variants, but Alph and the Koopalings were removed because they're merely costumes - just like Male WFT, Witch With No Memories Bayonetta, or Wario-colored Mario. And also the weirdness of having Alph either falsely listed as a Brawl character, or being separate from Olimar. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|<font color="magenta">cupid♥</font>]]. Or maybe [[User:DatNuttyKid|DatNuttyKid]].</small>  15:21, 15 February 2016 (EST)
::Alph and the Koopalings have their own whole pages though, and are identified as a distinct category of "playable character as a costume with announcer call, unique model etc.". This is something quite different from "color scheme based on __" or "opposite gender version of character". Also, Miis shouldn't link to the "types" on this template because this template is for the non-game-specific pages, which is all covered on [[Mii]]. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Verdana;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 15:40, 15 February 2016 (EST)
:::I can go with that. If that's the case, then we should change the Mii Fighter shortcut to link to the Mii page instead of the Mii Fighter page. [[User:Smore|Smore]] ([[User talk:Smore|talk]]) 15:45, 15 February 2016 (EST)
::::That's how it was before you changed it. I was just waiting to resolve the issue of Alph and the Koopalings before editing the template again. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Verdana;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 15:49, 15 February 2016 (EST)
:::::If we're just listing character pages, then I see no problem with separating Alph and the Koopalings from Olimar and Junior. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|<font color="magenta">cupid♥</font>]]. Or maybe [[User:DatNuttyKid|DatNuttyKid]].</small>  15:53, 15 February 2016 (EST)
::::::And probably Charizard, Squirtle, and Ivysaur should be separate from the Trainer too. (Particularly since Charizard comes back.) <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|<font color="magenta">cupid♥</font>]]. Or maybe [[User:DatNuttyKid|DatNuttyKid]].</small>  15:54, 15 February 2016 (EST)
:::::It wasn't like that before I changed it. The Mii Fighter shortcut never linked to the Mii page. It has always linked specifically to the Mii Fighter Smash 4 page. [[User:Smore|Smore]] ([[User talk:Smore|talk]]) 16:00, 15 February 2016 (EST)
::::::@Nutty: I could accept that, although given that 2/3 only exist attached to PT as opposed to a 50/50 split like Sheik or ZSS, it's a little tougher to decide.
::::::@Smore: [http://www.ssbwiki.com/index.php?title=Template:Characters&oldid=826054 See here]; the text of the link says "Mii Fighter" but it linked to [[Mii]]. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Verdana;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 16:06, 15 February 2016 (EST)
:::::::Shoot, I just copied over the formatting from the SSB4 character template page. My B. I thought I was looking at this template when I was actually looking at the other one. : / [[User:Smore|Smore]] ([[User talk:Smore|talk]]) 16:14, 15 February 2016 (EST)

Wait wait wait. So Alternate costumes are ok but PLAYABLE FIGHTERS (Mii fighters) aren't? What? <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:12pt">[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">'''Serpent'''</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;">'''King'''</span></span>]] 16:34, 15 February 2016 (EST)
:This is a template for the characters, not the fighters. Mii Swordfighter/Gunner/Brawler aren't characters, just fighters.
:erm I suck at phrasing but it makes sense in my head I promise <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|<font color="magenta">cupid♥</font>]]. Or maybe [[User:DatNuttyKid|DatNuttyKid]].</small>  16:36, 15 February 2016 (EST)
::Look at it this way: This is a navigation template, intended solely for navigation and not for information. Mii Swordfighter/Gunner/Brawler do not have pages to be navigated to (besides the shared "[[Mii]]" page which is listed). Alph and the Koopalings do. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|<font color="magenta">cupid♥</font>]]. Or maybe [[User:DatNuttyKid|DatNuttyKid]].</small>  16:40, 15 February 2016 (EST)
:::Then I suppose we should add Princess Daisy too? <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:12pt">[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">'''Serpent'''</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;">'''King'''</span></span>]] 16:42, 15 February 2016 (EST)

== No Mii Fighter Variants or Pokemon Trainer Pokemon ==

It's perfect! [[User:Smore|Smore]] ([[User talk:Smore|talk]]) 16:36, 15 February 2016 (EST)
:....besides the inclusion of Alph. If we do that, Koopalings should be added back. [[User:Smore|Smore]] ([[User talk:Smore|talk]]) 16:39, 15 February 2016 (EST)
==Pokemon trainer Female in ultimate==
Alright so I think it's unnecessary because it's only a costume and not a new charecter. That would be like putting all new mii costumes as new characters, they just aren't. <span style="background:#ea244a;border:outset #906 5px">'''[[User:Xtra3678|Xtra]][[File:Xtra_headpng.png|20px]][[User talk:Xtra3678|<span style="color:Lime">Talk</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Xtra3678|<span style="color: Gold">Edits</span>]]'''</span> 23:57, May 1, 2019 (EDT)
:By that logic, Alph and the Koopalings are also unnecessary. And before you say that they have different names, Pokémon Trainer has different names depending on the gender in gender-dependent languages like french or spanish. I know that the wiki is in english, but she’s in the exact same vein as Alph and the Koopalings. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 00:05, May 2, 2019 (EDT)
::I mean they kind of are unnecessary but they actually have their own pages, and Pokemon trainer doesn't, as well as the fact that leaf is just a gender difference, while those are actually different charecters, and this is a chart for the charecter pages. However even alph and the koopalings are kinda unnecessary but they at least have their own page.<span style="background:#ea244a;border:outset #906 5px">'''[[User:Xtra3678|Xtra]][[File:Xtra_headpng.png|20px]][[User talk:Xtra3678|<span style="color:Lime">Talk</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Xtra3678|<span style="color: Gold">Edits</span>]]'''</span> 06:53, May 2, 2019 (EDT)
:::Leaf isn't referred to "Leaf" in the game, but "Pokémon Trainer," which makes me believe it's more like the other male-female alternates. [[User:SugarCookie420|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman"><span style="color: red;">SugarCookie</span></span>]] [[User talk:SugarCookie420|<span style="font-family:Impact"><span style="color: green;">420</span></span>]] 07:27, May 2, 2019 (EDT)
::::I'm agree, Pokémon Trainer is a profession name, so he represents profession, not individual. just as we don't count Pikachu Libre as a stand-alone character, because Pikachu represent the race. Moreover Pokémon Trainer's appearance comes from ''Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen'', they are the same character in this game.--[[User:Capstalker|Capstalker]] ([[User talk:Capstalker|talk]]) 09:18, May 2, 2019 (EDT)
<small>(Reset indent) </small> It's entirely unnecessary to mention the female trainer. We don't mention male Inkling, female Villager, male Wii Fit Trainer, female Robin, or female Corrin. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 11:59, May 2, 2019 (EDT)

==Including Arsene and Madama Butterfly in parentheses in this table==
Do we really need it? We did have Pikmin on there, but I’m pretty sure part of that was because Olimars japanese name was Pikmin & Olimar. While Madama Butterfly and Arsene are vital parts of Bayonetta’s movesets, neither one of them is mentioned in the character’s title. Otherwise, we’ll have to add [[Ghosts]] for Pac-Man, Petey Piranha for Piranha Plant, Koopa Clown Car for Bowser Jr., all of the phantom thieves for Joker, put Chrom and Palutena in parentheses for Robin and Pit, Toad for Peach, etc. It’ll become excessive. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 15:19, July 1, 2019 (EDT)
:Arsene, like the Pikmin, is a vital part of Joker's moveset. Appearing in a single move or just smash attacks isn't the same thing as the entire moveset. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 16:02, July 1, 2019 (EDT)
::So we should keep Arsene and remove Madama Butterfly? [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 16:19, July 1, 2019 (EDT)
:::[https://www.ssbwiki.com/index.php?title=Template:Characters&curid=433&diff=1255109&oldid=1255046 Isn't that exactly what I just did?] [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 16:32, July 1, 2019 (EDT)

== Formatting of Pyra and Mythra ==

There's been some discussion in the Discord how to handle this pair of characters, mostly whether they should be listed separately (like with Zelda and Sheik) or grouped with a slash (because unlike Z/S they have no independent appearances). While I think we might have to wait until we see what the game does, my opinion is '''separate'''. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[File:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Multifaceted 23:13, February 17, 2021 (EST)
:'''Separate'''. According to Toomai on Discord, they've always been separate, even before Smash 4, so I don't see a reason why Pyra and Mythra should be any different. [[User:Awesomelink234|<span style="font-size:10pt;background:#00FF20;border:outset #083 2px;padding:1px 3px;color:#050DF7">Awesomelink234, the Super Cool Gamer</span>]] ([[User talk:Awesomelink234|talk]]) 23:16, February 17, 2021 (EST)
::'''Separate'''. Pyra and Mythra are no different than Zelda and Sheik. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: red;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: pink;">'''the Lovely Rurouni'''</span>]] 23:18, February 17, 2021 (EST)
:To sum up the discussion points I made in the Discord, I would prefer to '''group them'''. The formatting that's seen on the official website is "Pyra / Mythra", and that's what I believe the game will likely go with. Although it looks kind of strange in the infobox, the point made that they have no standalone appearances is notable; despite having multiple fighter numbers, they share the same slot, and it would look more odd to separate them. The clarity that they're meant to be a two-in-one fighter is more important to me than the consistency of listing them separately. (And although Zelda and Sheik have been historically separate, I honestly think they should be grouped together, too.) ~ [[User:StrawberryChan|<span style="color: #e68;">'''StrawberryChan'''</span>]] ([[User talk:StrawberryChan|talk]]) 23:20, February 17, 2021 (EST)
:::<small>(edit conflict)</small>'''Separate''', but I think (opinion subject to change) that we should keep their final smashes together, as per the discussion I started [[Talk:Burning Sword / Sacred Arrow|here]]. [[User:Black Vulpine|<span style="color: black;">'''Black Vulpine'''</span>]] of the [[User talk:Black Vulpine|🦊'''Furry Nation'''🐺]]. [[Special:Contributions/Black Vulpine|<span style="color: #CC5500">'''Furries make the internets go! :3'''</span>]] 23:22, February 17, 2021 (EST)
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