Editing Template talk:ArticleIcons

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:If that's what you want to do, fine, but personally I don't think it's necessary at this stage. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] Da Bomb 11:58, 14 June 2011 (EDT)
:If that's what you want to do, fine, but personally I don't think it's necessary at this stage. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] Da Bomb 11:58, 14 June 2011 (EDT)


What is featured article?[[User:Lucasthefourth|<span style="color:red">'''Lucas-IV- ''']]</span> [[User talk:Lucasthefourth| <span style="color:yellow">'''Paper '''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Lucasthefourth|'''Tosser''']][[Image:Lucas_kirby.jpg |30px]] 05:12, 19 June 2011 (EDT)
What is featured article?[[User:Lucasthefourth|<span style="color:red">'''Lucas-IV- ''']]</span> [[User talk:Lucasthefourth| <span style="color:yellow">'''Paper '''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Lucasthefourth|'''Tosser''']][[Image:Lucas_kirby.jpg‎ |30px]] 05:12, 19 June 2011 (EDT)


==Category==
==Category==
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:While I don't see this as necessary, I see no good reason to oppose it, and it would make protected pages more identifiable to non experienced users. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 00:11, 6 October 2011 (EDT)
:While I don't see this as necessary, I see no good reason to oppose it, and it would make protected pages more identifiable to non experienced users. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 00:11, 6 October 2011 (EDT)


==Um...==
==<s>Um...==
I'm assuming the Articleicon template is different? Just asking so no screw-up happens when we start using the icons, whenever that will be. <font face="Forte">[[User:BlindColours|<font color="#FFA500">Blin</font>]][[User talk:BlindColours|<font color="#00FFFF">dCol</font>]][[Special:Contributions/BlindColours|<font color="#00FF00">ours</font>]]</font> ''FALCON...'' 19:18, 6 October 2011 (EDT)</s>
I'm assuming the Articleicon template is different? Just asking so no screw-up happens when we start using the icons, whenever that will be. <font face="Forte">[[User:BlindColours|<font color="#FFA500">Blin</font>]][[User talk:BlindColours|<font color="#00FFFF">dCol</font>]][[Special:Contributions/BlindColours|<font color="#00FF00">ours</font>]]</font> ''FALCON...'' 19:18, 6 October 2011 (EDT)</s>


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I noticed in a couple of sections above that there was some talk about removing the allgames parameter and having relevant articles list all four icons individually, and that there was some support for this idea. Having just spent a lot of time organizing the Techniques category and dealing with a very similar issue recently, allow me to just put out there that I would heavily '''oppose''' any removal.
I noticed in a couple of sections above that there was some talk about removing the allgames parameter and having relevant articles list all four icons individually, and that there was some support for this idea. Having just spent a lot of time organizing the Techniques category and dealing with a very similar issue recently, allow me to just put out there that I would heavily '''oppose''' any removal.


In general, whenever a new game comes out, the number of elements carried over from previous games (e.g. [[short hop]], most characters) is '''''much''''' greater than the number of elements that are lost (e.g. [[edge-hogging]], cut characters). With the allgames parameter, only the latter significantly smaller number of articles need to be gone back to and changed, while without it, every single article that had all the games listed would have to be changed. Additionally, it's easier to identify and enumerate all the articles that need removal, compared to all the articles that need updating to include the new game. Why pick the option that both increases the clutter at the top of a page source (only ~22 bytes, but still) and causes a greater number of articles to be outdated/inaccurate for a longer time? (For a side example, see some of my recent edits - there are loads of pages here whose explanations still imply that Brawl is the most recent game. It's the difference between manually specifying everything and using more general terms, such as "In ''Melee'' and ''Brawl''" compared to "From ''Melee'' onward".) [[User:Zowayix|Zowayix]] ([[User talk:Zowayix|talk]]) 04:45, 25 December 2015 (EST)
In general, whenever a new game comes out, the number of elements carried over from previous games (e.g. [[short hop]], most characters) is '''''much''''' greater than the number of elements that are lost (e.g. [[edge-hogging]], cut characters). With the allgames parameter, only the latter significantly smaller number of articles need to be gone back to and changed, while without it, every single article that had all the games listed would have to be changed. Additionally, it's easier to identify/enumerate all the articles that need removal compared to all the articles that need updating to include the new game. Why pick the option that both increases the clutter at the top of a page source (only ~22 bytes, but still) and causes a greater number of articles to be outdated/inaccurate for a longer time? (For a side example, see some of my recent edits - there are loads of pages here whose explanations still imply that Brawl is the most recent game. It's the difference between manually specifying everything and using more general terms, such as "In ''Melee'' and ''Brawl''" compared to "From ''Melee'' onward".) [[User:Zowayix|Zowayix]] ([[User talk:Zowayix|talk]]) 04:45, 25 December 2015 (EST)
:'''Oppose''' removal because some mechanics are core to the series and probably will never be removed (like knockback). [[File:Nyargleblargle.png|16px]][[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color:#090">'''Nyargle</span>]][[User talk:Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: #f00;">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|Contribs]]) 10:27, 25 December 2015 (EST)
:'''Oppose''' removal because some mechanics are core to the series and probably will never be removed (like knockback). [[File:Nyargleblargle.png|16px]][[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color:#090">'''Nyargle</span>]][[User talk:Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: #f00;">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|Contribs]]) 10:27, 25 December 2015 (EST)
::That's what the "series" icon is for though. "allgames" is for characters and items and such. Because of this, I say that it should be removed, as it just majorly increases our workload, whereas if we abolish it, we save a lot of time and work initially as we can just add the new game icon as things are revealed. I ''support'' removing it entirely. [[User:Laikue|Laikue]] ([[User talk:Laikue|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Laikue|contribs]]) 10:56, 25 December 2015 (EST)
::That's what the series icon is for though. "allgames" is for characters and items and such. Because of this, I say that it should be removed, as it just majorly increases our workload, whereas if we abolish it, we save a lot of time and work initially as we can just add the new game icon as things are revealed. [[User:Laikue|Laikue]] ([[User talk:Laikue|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Laikue|contribs]]) 10:56, 25 December 2015 (EST)
 
:::I'm fully aware of the difference between allgames and series. My exact argument is that removing the allgames parameter will cause ''more'' workload than keeping it. Just using the techniques page as an example, there's ''loads'' of techniques and countless other pages that are naturally carried over from previous games, like the aforementioned short hopping. Who's going to remember every one of them, and go back to manually add the hypothetical Smash 5 icon to each individual article one by one? That's going to leave a large number of articles outdated for an indeterminate amount of time, and it's certainly not the case that everything can be covered just by adding things as they are revealed. (As I mentioned earlier, even now you can find a bunch of articles with sections that still imply ''Brawl'' is the latest game.) The list of things that are cut as opposed to carried over is much shorter. Would you rather have to manually remember to stick the Smash 5 icon on everything from [[Training Mode]], [[CPU mode]], [[List of voice actors]], [http://www.ssbwiki.com/index.php?title=Freeze_frame&diff=580700&oldid=523735 Freeze frame], [[How to Play]], [[Team Battle]], [[teeter]]ing, and so on, or remember to revert pages like [[Target Smash]]? My argument is that it's ''much'' easier to remember everything that's been removed, compared to everything that's still there.
:::I will state that there's a case for avoiding the allgames parameter for ''specific'' article types that are specifically easy to enumerate, such as characters, stages, and items. But removing allgames entirely from all pages would be a very bad idea. [[User:Zowayix|Zowayix]] ([[User talk:Zowayix|talk]]) 21:22, 25 December 2015 (EST)
 
::::Whoops, my bad. I still '''oppose''' per Zowayix. [[File:Nyargleblargle.png|16px]][[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color:#090">'''Nyargle</span>]][[User talk:Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: #f00;">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|Contribs]]) 21:37, 25 December 2015 (EST)
:::::'''Oppose''': Seems like a lot of unnecessary work. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:12pt">[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">'''Serpent'''</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;">'''King'''</span></span>]] 07:44, 4 January 2016 (EST)
 
== List instead of table for performance ==
 
I've got a rewrite of this template as a list instead of table. Using a list with sitewide CSS instead of a table with inline styles cuts the HTML output on a typical use case <code><nowiki>{{ArticleIcons|allgames=y}}</nowiki></code> by 137 bytes. Not huge, but the template is common enough that it'll add up.
 
Proposed changes:
* [[User:Rigel Kent/ArticleIcons draft]] to [[Template:ArticleIcons]]
* [[User:Rigel Kent/monobook.css]] to [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]]
* [[User:Rigel Kent/vector.css]] to [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]]
* [[User:Rigel Kent/minerva.css]] to [[MediaWiki:Mobile.css]]
 
I took out the "Click for more information" tooltip, but can put it back in if people think the tip is needed. Also fixes some skin-specific issues, positioning the icons in Vector, and hiding the list while the mobile skin has the article hidden for menus or search. Monobook users should see no visual changes other than the "Click for" tooltip. For testing, please see [[User:Rigel Kent/ArticleIcons tests]] with the CSS installed to personal CSS, [[Special:MyPage/monobook.css]] etc. [[User:Rigel Kent|<ruby lang="ja">ライケン<rp>&nbsp;</rp><rt lang="en">Rigel Kent</rt></ruby>]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Rigel Kent|talk]]) 20:35, 17 August 2016 (EDT)
:I understand the need for cutting load times...but I don't really think such is an issue on SmashWiki. Loading never really takes that long. In this case, I would say that we should prioritize simplicity over a little shave off load time. Same goes with the other templates. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:12pt">'''[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px #0b7">Serpent</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px #fd0">King</span>]]'''</span> 20:54, 17 August 2016 (EDT)
::I agree simplicity is good. And a list is simpler than a table. [[User:Rigel Kent|<ruby lang="ja">ライケン<rp>&nbsp;</rp><rt lang="en">Rigel Kent</rt></ruby>]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Rigel Kent|talk]]) 23:39, 17 August 2016 (EDT)
 
== include Ultimate in "allgames" ==
 
We'll have to do it eventually, and removing it from articles where it does not work anymore will probably take a certain amount of time, so should we just get started, or is there any reason to wait? [[User:Ponyshment|<span style="color:Purple; text-shadow: 1px 1px 6px purple">'''Ponyshment'''</span>]]  [[File:PonyshmentSignature.png|20px|link=User_talk:Ponyshment]]  13:49, 16 November 2018 (EST)
:I would tend to agree, but the template info does state "the allgames parameter will show icons for all ''released'' games." In any event, I don't think many articles currently using allgames will need to be manually adjusted, since it's primarily used for original 12 characters and other broad subjects that will serve source material for all Smash games in the foreseeable future, like {{b|Mushroom Kingdom|location}}. [[User:SuperFalconBros|SuperFalconBros]] ([[User talk:SuperFalconBros|talk]]) 14:07, 16 November 2018 (EST)
Bump. ''Ultimate'' has already released for a good while now. [[File:NokiiSigC.png|link=User_talk:Nokii]] '''[[User:Nokii|{{color|#a00|Nokii}}]]''' —  10:51, 26 December 2018 (EST)

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