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| :If that's what you want to do, fine, but personally I don't think it's necessary at this stage. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] Da Bomb 11:58, 14 June 2011 (EDT) | | :If that's what you want to do, fine, but personally I don't think it's necessary at this stage. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] Da Bomb 11:58, 14 June 2011 (EDT) |
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| What is featured article?[[User:Lucasthefourth|<span style="color:red">'''Lucas-IV- ''']]</span> [[User talk:Lucasthefourth| <span style="color:yellow">'''Paper '''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Lucasthefourth|'''Tosser''']][[Image:Lucas_kirby.jpg |30px]] 05:12, 19 June 2011 (EDT) | | What is featured article?[[User:Lucasthefourth|<span style="color:red">'''Lucas-IV- ''']]</span> [[User talk:Lucasthefourth| <span style="color:yellow">'''Paper '''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Lucasthefourth|'''Tosser''']][[Image:Lucas_kirby.jpg |30px]] 05:12, 19 June 2011 (EDT) |
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| ==Category== | | ==Category== |
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| :While I don't see this as necessary, I see no good reason to oppose it, and it would make protected pages more identifiable to non experienced users. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 00:11, 6 October 2011 (EDT) | | :While I don't see this as necessary, I see no good reason to oppose it, and it would make protected pages more identifiable to non experienced users. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 00:11, 6 October 2011 (EDT) |
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| ==Um...== | | ==<s>Um...== |
| I'm assuming the Articleicon template is different? Just asking so no screw-up happens when we start using the icons, whenever that will be. <font face="Forte">[[User:BlindColours|<font color="#FFA500">Blin</font>]][[User talk:BlindColours|<font color="#00FFFF">dCol</font>]][[Special:Contributions/BlindColours|<font color="#00FF00">ours</font>]]</font> ''FALCON...'' 19:18, 6 October 2011 (EDT)</s> | | I'm assuming the Articleicon template is different? Just asking so no screw-up happens when we start using the icons, whenever that will be. <font face="Forte">[[User:BlindColours|<font color="#FFA500">Blin</font>]][[User talk:BlindColours|<font color="#00FFFF">dCol</font>]][[Special:Contributions/BlindColours|<font color="#00FF00">ours</font>]]</font> ''FALCON...'' 19:18, 6 October 2011 (EDT)</s> |
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| SSE on the other hand '''eclipses''' Classic and All-Star if not the entire rest of the Solo section combined, and was a ''huge'' portion of ''Brawl''{{'}}s total content and a huge chunk of the SSE stuff is SSE-specific. Unlike the few original characters in campaigns past, SSE created a fully fleshed-out ''Smash'' universe with its own aesthetic, locations, concepts, and a whole slew of new characters in service of an actual storyline, to the point that there are ''dozens'' of pages on the wiki just to document it all. But the important thing is that it's almost completely self-contained from the rest of ''Brawl''. Pretty much none of the thematic stuff shows up anywhere else in ''Brawl'' aside from the Boss Battles fights or files on it in the vault, and even mechanically: it has its own save files, the characters have been modified from how they play in the rest of the game, there's the whole sticker equip business, the cutscenes, the world map and all the levels, and it even switches to its own title screen and menu system when you click the SSE icon on the ''Brawl'' menus. | | SSE on the other hand '''eclipses''' Classic and All-Star if not the entire rest of the Solo section combined, and was a ''huge'' portion of ''Brawl''{{'}}s total content and a huge chunk of the SSE stuff is SSE-specific. Unlike the few original characters in campaigns past, SSE created a fully fleshed-out ''Smash'' universe with its own aesthetic, locations, concepts, and a whole slew of new characters in service of an actual storyline, to the point that there are ''dozens'' of pages on the wiki just to document it all. But the important thing is that it's almost completely self-contained from the rest of ''Brawl''. Pretty much none of the thematic stuff shows up anywhere else in ''Brawl'' aside from the Boss Battles fights or files on it in the vault, and even mechanically: it has its own save files, the characters have been modified from how they play in the rest of the game, there's the whole sticker equip business, the cutscenes, the world map and all the levels, and it even switches to its own title screen and menu system when you click the SSE icon on the ''Brawl'' menus. |
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| Again - it's almost like a whole other game crammed onto the disc rather than just another ''Brawl'' mode, and that's why I feel it needs its own icon. If you're up for making it, Toomai, I already gave you that suggestion for how it should look on your talk page. [[Image:VinSymbol.png|16px|link=User:VinLAURiA]][[User:VinLAURiA|VinLAURiA]] ([[User talk:VinLAURiA|talk]]) 04:01, 27 July 2014 (EDT) | | Again - it's almost like a whole other game crammed onto the disc rather than just another ''Brawl'' mode, and that's why I feel it needs its own icon. If you're up for making the icon, Toomai, I already gave you that suggestion for how it should look on your talk page. [[Image:VinSymbol.png|16px|link=User:VinLAURiA]][[User:VinLAURiA|VinLAURiA]] ([[User talk:VinLAURiA|talk]]) 04:01, 27 July 2014 (EDT) |
| :I'm opposed to this, for a couple of reasons.
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| :#While the SSE has some differences from the rest of Brawl in terms of structure and gameplay, most of it overlaps. It has the same playable characters with the same movesets, the same items, and even a good chunk of its music. The gameplay tweaks in terms of physics, while present, are relatively minor.
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| :#Things in the SSE aren't SSE-only, even within the context of Brawl. Stickers are both a category of collectibles outside the SSE and powerups within it, for example, and SSE-related trophies and music can appear in other game modes as well, [[Sample Stages#Sample S: Hole|even before the SSE is first played]].
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| :#SSE content is freely intermixed with non-SSE content in both Brawl's Boss Battles and Smash Run.
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| :Overall, I think it's fair to say that the SSE, while a notable part of Brawl, hardly deserves equal footing with the full games of the series. It should be thought of more as an expansion of how previous games used Battlefield and Final Destination in their single-player modes (original locations to fight original enemies), rather than a game of its own. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 04:18, 27 July 2014 (EDT)
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| ::I'd counter that what happens in ''Smash 4'' shouldn't necessarily affect how something is categorized in respect to Brawl (for example, the [[Poppant]] page would be listed as {{symbol|subspace|16px}}{{gameIcon|3DS}} rather than {{gameIcon|brawl}}{{gameIcon|3DS}}), and that something that is also significant in the rest of ''Brawl'' such as stickers or Boss Battles would be just given the overall {{gameIcon|brawl}} icon, with {{symbol|subspace|16px}} relating to something that is primarily only seen in SSE. Here's how I'd say to think of it: if {{gameIcon|brawl}} is equivalent to {{gameIcon|4}} as an overall game, then {{symbol|subspace|16px}} would be equivalent to {{gameIcon|3DS}} or {{gameIcon|wiiu}}. The latter would still imply the former, just as a subcategory. Note that I'm just using the Subspace universe symbol as a placeholder; what I've [[User_talk:Toomai#Can_we_get_a_Subspace_Emissary_game_icon.3F|suggested to Toomai]] is a modified {{gameIcon|Brawl}} for the SSE article icon that would still clearly denote it as a part of Brawl. [[Image:VinSymbol.png|16px|link=User:VinLAURiA]][[User:VinLAURiA|VinLAURiA]] ([[User talk:VinLAURiA|talk]]) 04:40, 27 July 2014 (EDT)
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| :::I'm not convinced. The SSB4 icons are split because you have to actually buy a different physical game to get stuff of the opposite side; the PM icon exists because the hack is so comprehensive it makes little sense to leave it undifferentiated (and the userbase voted to have one). I don't see how it's useful to use icons to differentiate what's fundamentally just a story mode. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Xanthic 10:31, 27 July 2014 (EDT)
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| ::::Would you consider it any less significant than the [[image:Competitive.png|16px]] icon? [[Image:VinSymbol.png|16px|link=User:VinLAURiA]][[User:VinLAURiA|VinLAURiA]] ([[User talk:VinLAURiA|talk]]) 16:16, 27 July 2014 (EDT)
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| :::::Very very very much so. In my opinion, this template's main purpose is to quickly answer the question "in what game is this?" Each game icon says "In this game." The competitive icon says "In the out-of-game construct that is tournament play." The series icon says "In every game by definition." (or similar) A Subspace Emissary icon would just be too specific. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Xanthic 17:03, 27 July 2014 (EDT)
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| ::::::And your [[File:Data.png|16px]] proposal above I'd assume shares a similar purpose, being a competitive reference? Out of curiosity, what's the reason for that having a separate icon from the basic [[File:Competitive.png|16px]], then? [[Image:VinSymbol.png|16px|link=User:VinLAURiA]][[User:VinLAURiA|VinLAURiA]] ([[User talk:VinLAURiA|talk]]) 20:26, 27 July 2014 (EDT)
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| :::::::I think the idea was similar to that of the unofficial lingo or featured article icons - they tell you something about the article itself (in this case, that it's focused on technical data) rather than its content. I dropped the idea though, because it's probably a good idea to try and keep the number of icons as low as possible, and am considering a template at the bottom of such pages, like how Bulbapedia has several "this page is part of project X" notices. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Incomprehensible 23:18, 27 July 2014 (EDT)
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| =="Allgames" usage==
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| I think it shouldn't be used, I didn't mind it originally, but then another user reverted some edits I made with them saying "What if for some odd reason he (Captain Falcon) was removed? Best to avoid allgames on fighter characters.", and it got me to thinking, what's stopping '''anything''' from being removed? Every time we get a new game we're going to have to remove the template from every single page it's on until they're confirmed for the game. (Which is going to be a lot of low-brow edits) So I ask, what's the point? It clears up about 22 bytes from the page, but will give more heartache later when we get a new game announcement. There will never be a good time to use it, I mean, what if we get a spin-off of Smash (say a Pokemon or Mario Character based spin-off) that'll affect it as well. And if there is a good use for it (i.e. A Button, or something, but still the A button could be removed for some odd reason), it should be mentioned in this article. But overall I think we should just stop using it. [[User:Laikue|Laikue]] ([[User talk:Laikue|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Laikue|contribs]]) 18:37, 8 September 2014 (EDT)
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| :Yeah, it seems pretty redundant. I don't think we should have it either; if there's something that applies to Smash as a whole, we already have the 'series' symbol for that. [[Image:VinSymbol.png|16px|link=User:VinLAURiA]][[User:VinLAURiA|VinLAURiA]] ([[User talk:VinLAURiA|talk]]) 04:34, 1 November 2014 (EDT)
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| ==Not using Project M outside of Project M-only articles==
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| I don't understand why we are not allowed to use the Project M icon if the article doesn't apply solely to Project M. Project M is one of the most popular Smash games ever, if that's the reasoning. I have been very impressed so far by the recognition Project M has seen on here lately. [[User:Vegerot|Vegerot]] ([[User talk:Vegerot|talk]]) 14:25, 20 September 2015 (EDT)
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| :We made the decision not to a couple of years ago, I believe. I'm personally against it, as it's highly likely that anything that applies to Melee applies to Project M as well. [[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: LawnGreen">'''Nyargle'''</span><span style="color: orange">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Nyargleblargle|Talk]]<span style="font-weight:bold;"> ·</span> [[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|Contribs]]) 15:20, 20 September 2015 (EDT)
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| == The "allgames" removal debate ==
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| I noticed in a couple of sections above that there was some talk about removing the allgames parameter and having relevant articles list all four icons individually, and that there was some support for this idea. Having just spent a lot of time organizing the Techniques category and dealing with a very similar issue recently, allow me to just put out there that I would heavily '''oppose''' any removal.
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| In general, whenever a new game comes out, the number of elements carried over from previous games (e.g. [[short hop]], most characters) is '''''much''''' greater than the number of elements that are lost (e.g. [[edge-hogging]], cut characters). With the allgames parameter, only the latter significantly smaller number of articles need to be gone back to and changed, while without it, every single article that had all the games listed would have to be changed. Additionally, it's easier to identify and enumerate all the articles that need removal, compared to all the articles that need updating to include the new game. Why pick the option that both increases the clutter at the top of a page source (only ~22 bytes, but still) and causes a greater number of articles to be outdated/inaccurate for a longer time? (For a side example, see some of my recent edits - there are loads of pages here whose explanations still imply that Brawl is the most recent game. It's the difference between manually specifying everything and using more general terms, such as "In ''Melee'' and ''Brawl''" compared to "From ''Melee'' onward".) [[User:Zowayix|Zowayix]] ([[User talk:Zowayix|talk]]) 04:45, 25 December 2015 (EST)
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| :'''Oppose''' removal because some mechanics are core to the series and probably will never be removed (like knockback). [[File:Nyargleblargle.png|16px]][[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color:#090">'''Nyargle</span>]][[User talk:Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: #f00;">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|Contribs]]) 10:27, 25 December 2015 (EST)
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| ::That's what the "series" icon is for though. "allgames" is for characters and items and such. Because of this, I say that it should be removed, as it just majorly increases our workload, whereas if we abolish it, we save a lot of time and work initially as we can just add the new game icon as things are revealed. I ''support'' removing it entirely. [[User:Laikue|Laikue]] ([[User talk:Laikue|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Laikue|contribs]]) 10:56, 25 December 2015 (EST)
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| :::I'm fully aware of the difference between allgames and series. My exact argument is that removing the allgames parameter will cause ''more'' workload than keeping it. Just using the techniques page as an example, there's ''loads'' of techniques and countless other pages that are naturally carried over from previous games, like the aforementioned short hopping. Who's going to remember every one of them, and go back to manually add the hypothetical Smash 5 icon to each individual article one by one? That's going to leave a large number of articles outdated for an indeterminate amount of time, and it's certainly not the case that everything can be covered just by adding things as they are revealed. (As I mentioned earlier, even now you can find a bunch of articles with sections that still imply ''Brawl'' is the latest game.) The list of things that are cut as opposed to carried over is much shorter. Would you rather have to manually remember to stick the Smash 5 icon on everything from [[Training Mode]], [[CPU mode]], [[List of voice actors]], [http://www.ssbwiki.com/index.php?title=Freeze_frame&diff=580700&oldid=523735 Freeze frame], [[How to Play]], [[Team Battle]], [[teeter]]ing, and so on, or remember to revert pages like [[Target Smash]]? My argument is that it's ''much'' easier to remember everything that's been removed, compared to everything that's still there.
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| :::I will state that there's a case for avoiding the allgames parameter for ''specific'' article types that are specifically easy to enumerate, such as characters, stages, and items. But removing allgames entirely from all pages would be a very bad idea. [[User:Zowayix|Zowayix]] ([[User talk:Zowayix|talk]]) 21:22, 25 December 2015 (EST)
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| ::::Whoops, my bad. I still '''oppose''' per Zowayix. [[File:Nyargleblargle.png|16px]][[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color:#090">'''Nyargle</span>]][[User talk:Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: #f00;">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|Contribs]]) 21:37, 25 December 2015 (EST)
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| :::::'''Oppose''': Seems like a lot of unnecessary work. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:12pt">[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">'''Serpent'''</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;">'''King'''</span></span>]] 07:44, 4 January 2016 (EST)
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| == List instead of table for performance ==
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| I've got a rewrite of this template as a list instead of table. Using a list with sitewide CSS instead of a table with inline styles cuts the HTML output on a typical use case <code><nowiki>{{ArticleIcons|allgames=y}}</nowiki></code> by 137 bytes. Not huge, but the template is common enough that it'll add up.
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| Proposed changes:
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| * [[User:Rigel Kent/ArticleIcons draft]] to [[Template:ArticleIcons]]
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| * [[User:Rigel Kent/monobook.css]] to [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]]
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| * [[User:Rigel Kent/vector.css]] to [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]]
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| * [[User:Rigel Kent/minerva.css]] to [[MediaWiki:Mobile.css]]
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| I took out the "Click for more information" tooltip, but can put it back in if people think the tip is needed. Also fixes some skin-specific issues, positioning the icons in Vector, and hiding the list while the mobile skin has the article hidden for menus or search. Monobook users should see no visual changes other than the "Click for" tooltip. For testing, please see [[User:Rigel Kent/ArticleIcons tests]] with the CSS installed to personal CSS, [[Special:MyPage/monobook.css]] etc. [[User:Rigel Kent|<ruby lang="ja">ライケン<rp> </rp><rt lang="en">Rigel Kent</rt></ruby>]] ([[User talk:Rigel Kent|talk]]) 20:35, 17 August 2016 (EDT)
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| :I understand the need for cutting load times...but I don't really think such is an issue on SmashWiki. Loading never really takes that long. In this case, I would say that we should prioritize simplicity over a little shave off load time. Same goes with the other templates. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:12pt">'''[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px #0b7">Serpent</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px #fd0">King</span>]]'''</span> 20:54, 17 August 2016 (EDT)
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| ::I agree simplicity is good. And a list is simpler than a table. [[User:Rigel Kent|<ruby lang="ja">ライケン<rp> </rp><rt lang="en">Rigel Kent</rt></ruby>]] ([[User talk:Rigel Kent|talk]]) 23:39, 17 August 2016 (EDT)
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| == include Ultimate in "allgames" ==
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| We'll have to do it eventually, and removing it from articles where it does not work anymore will probably take a certain amount of time, so should we just get started, or is there any reason to wait? [[User:Ponyshment|<span style="color:Purple; text-shadow: 1px 1px 6px purple">'''Ponyshment'''</span>]] [[File:PonyshmentSignature.png|20px|link=User_talk:Ponyshment]] 13:49, 16 November 2018 (EST)
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| :I would tend to agree, but the template info does state "the allgames parameter will show icons for all ''released'' games." In any event, I don't think many articles currently using allgames will need to be manually adjusted, since it's primarily used for original 12 characters and other broad subjects that will serve source material for all Smash games in the foreseeable future, like {{b|Mushroom Kingdom|location}}. [[User:SuperFalconBros|SuperFalconBros]] ([[User talk:SuperFalconBros|talk]]) 14:07, 16 November 2018 (EST)
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| Bump. ''Ultimate'' has already released for a good while now. [[File:NokiiSigC.png|link=User_talk:Nokii]] '''[[User:Nokii|{{color|#a00|Nokii}}]]''' — 10:51, 26 December 2018 (EST)
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