Editing Talk:Zelda (SSBU)

== 2D games representation ==

I believe it'd be interesting to add a trivia referencing that this is the first time a "Imprisoning War"-era design has ever been dedicated a default costume status in Super Smash Bros. Previously, the series has only referenced 3D titles past OoT, with OoT sources in Melee, TP and WW sources in Brawl and Skyward Sword sources in SSB4. Zelda in particular has only seen OoT and TP-based designs.
Although some alternate colors and costumes reference to older 2D Zelda games, such some Toon Link or even Zelda colors, this new Maiden-outfit Zelda still marks the first time a Zelda character slot is directly related to the 2D games o old and new, including A Link Between Worlds.

Addendum: If A Link Between Worlds's Hyrule Castle or any other form of stage based on the 2D series end up appearing as new stages, this would also mark the first time one of the top-down games is ever represented as a stage.

[[User:Drezus|Drezus]] ([[User talk:Drezus|talk]]) 10:30, 13 June 2018 (EDT)
:Not exactly, Temple is based of Zelda II after all. [[User:Guybrush20X6|Guybrush20X6]] ([[User talk:Guybrush20X6|talk]]) 10:46, 13 June 2018 (EDT)

::I mean top-down games specifically, including Zelda 1, A Link to the Past, Oracles, Minish Cap and Four Swords. Also, here's some more [https://i.imgur.com/gdpt9LE.jpg analytical proof] that SSBU Zelda is actually based on her SNES design! I've already edited the main article to reflect this. [[User:Drezus|Drezus]] ([[User talk:Drezus|talk]]) 09:16, 14 June 2018 (EDT)

== Potential translation error ==

According to [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187696098800828416/456975844573708298/unknown.png this image], Zelda's design is actually inspired from A Link to the Past, not A Link Between Worlds like the localized Direct said. This is likely a translation error from Nintendo's part, but I thought it'd be worth sharing either way. '''~ ''[[User:SG9000|The Stoopid Unikorn]]'' ~''' // '''~ ''[[User talk:SG9000|If thou wish to speak to me...]]'' ~''' 20:31, 14 June 2018 (EDT)
:The design and coloring bare more of a resemblance with ALBW than LttP (even if LttP is outdated 90's coloring). The translation error is interesting, though. That said, it could simply be an amalgamation of the two - [[Fox (SSBB)|wouldn't be the first time design elements have been combined]]. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the College-Bound Rurouni'''</span>]] 20:41, 14 June 2018 (EDT)
::Also, if I may, I think I speak for all of us when I say that I'd like official confirmation rather than a fan-made image. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the College-Bound Rurouni'''</span>]] 20:45, 14 June 2018 (EDT)

What other official confirmation would you like beyond evidently official sources such as Nintendo's own official artwork and Japanese website statements?  [[User:Drezus|Drezus]] ([[User talk:Drezus|talk]]) 16:57, 15 June 2018 (EDT)

I'm inclined to believe this is starting to sound like a disputed statement [[User:Drezus|Drezus]] ([[User talk:Drezus|talk]]) 17:02, 15 June 2018 (EDT)

I think we should go primarily by ALBW with some mentioning of ALTTP being allowed. The point is that each character uses the most recent model for every smash game. Zelda's most recent appearance is BOTW, but they opted out of using her design there so they went by her appearance before that which was ALBW. But anyway, according to the official Japanese title, ALBW was intended to be a sequel to ALTTP hence why she uses the same model. [[:User:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|ZeldaStarfoxfan2164]] ([[User talk:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|talk]]) is a never lover boy  18:12, 16 June 2018 (EDT)

== Zelda from A Link to the Past vs. A Link Between Worlds ==

As discussed above and on various news sources like SourceGaming, it has come to light that Masahiro Sakurai cites ''A Link to the Past'' as the primary design reference for Zelda's new design in ''Ultimate''. Kononoe provided a nice, very detailed examination of her in Smash and highlighted the components of her design from ''A Link to the Past'', which you can see [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dfn3y1wUEAAVA7_.jpg:large here]. However, in looking back at here unveiling and watching live reactions, a lot of people saw her as the ''A Link Between Worlds'' design before Sakurai said anything on the subject, and I think there might be a reason why people felt this way and why the title may have been mistranslated by the Treehouse team. '''It's because there are legitimate design choices made with the character that explicitly match her appearance only in ''A Link Between Worlds''.''' It's not just arguable. Kononoe latter highlighted the components of her design from ''ALBW'' themselves.

Unlike in ''ALttP'', the Zelda in ''Ultimate'' and ''ALBW'' share bangs that cover her crown, the shape and color of the jewel in her crown, eyes of the same shape, a golden triforce on her dress, the same color palette, the same exact pattern on the pink part of her dress, a shorter cape, and the gold circles that hold the golden pieces around her waist. While ''A Link to the Past'' may be the primary source of inspiration, I think it's inaccurate to to say any connection to her ''ALBW'' design is subjective. This wouldn't be unprecedented, given lots of characters in ''Smash'' are amalgamations of there appearances in several games, such as Marth, Fox, Falco, Roy, Ridley, and Zero Suit Samus. Zelda's design components aren't "arguable" or subject to interpretation: they are real. [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 13:09, 21 June 2018 (EDT)

True, you're right. As with the bangs and jewel, there are some ALBW elements and some ALTTP ones, so it could be aswell categorized as another design amalgamation like Fox already has had once. Thanks for sharing! I'll edit my contribution and remove that part. [[User:Drezus|Drezus]] ([[User talk:Drezus|talk]]) 13:18, 21 June 2018 (EDT)

: It's worth nothing that ''A Link to the Past'' and ''A Link Between Worlds'' are called ''Triforce of the Gods'' and ''Triforce of the Gods 2'' in Japanese; it's considered a sub-series (like ''Wind Waker'', ''Phantom Hourglass'', and ''Spirit Tracks''). As Sakurai puts it, Zelda's design represents the ''Triforce of the Gods'' sub-series rather than one game or the other. [[User:DryKirby64|DryKirby64]] ([[User talk:DryKirby64|talk]]) 15:35, 21 June 2018 (EDT)

== Zelda's Buffs ==

I'm loving Zelda's buffs so far! As a Zelda main since Melee, it's great seeing all these changes they're giving her on Ultimate. I'm hoping they don't nerf her in the final version of the game, Zelda is a character that shouldn't even get nerfs, but if she does, I hope she doesn't get more than 3. And her new design is my favorite between all of Zelda's Smash appearances already! I also love how she smiles now, and has a more positive personality. [[User:SteffenSmasher|Steffen_Smasher]] ([[User talk:SteffenSmasher|talk]]) 23:19, 18 July 2018 (EDT)
:Hey, you might wanna check out [[SW:TALK]]. [[User:TheNuttyOne|TheNuttyOne]] 23:43, 18 July 2018 (EDT)
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@@ Line 32: / Line 32: @@
 : It's worth nothing that ''A Link to the Past'' and ''A Link Between Worlds'' are called ''Triforce of the Gods'' and ''Triforce of the Gods 2'' in Japanese; it's considered a sub-series (like ''Wind Waker'', ''Phantom Hourglass'', and ''Spirit Tracks''). As Sakurai puts it, Zelda's design represents the ''Triforce of the Gods'' sub-series rather than one game or the other. [[User:DryKirby64|DryKirby64]] ([[User talk:DryKirby64|talk]]) 15:35, 21 June 2018 (EDT)
-Something I noticed is that the white dress is technically a combination of both games, as it has both thin and thick stripes at the ends. The thin stripes being from ''A Link Between Worlds'' and the thick stripes being from ''A Link To The Past''. Both Dresses in both games having a single stripe at the bottom, whereas in ''Ultimate'' it has two at the bottom as a combination of Both. While ''A Link To the Past'' also has two stripes at the sleeves, it still has a single stripe at the bottom, while ''Ultimate'' has two stripes at the bottom. Long story short, The white dress in ''Ultimate'' technically isn't the same one as ''A Link To The Past'', as it has both thin and thick stripes as a combination of both games, as well as two stripes at the bottom in comparison to both games. Just wanted to point that out. [[User:Destinithompson|Destinithompson]]  16:19, 3 July 2024
 == Zelda's Buffs ==
@@ Line 40: / Line 37: @@
 I'm loving Zelda's buffs so far! As a Zelda main since Melee, it's great seeing all these changes they're giving her on Ultimate. I'm hoping they don't nerf her in the final version of the game, Zelda is a character that shouldn't even get nerfs, but if she does, I hope she doesn't get more than 3. And her new design is my favorite between all of Zelda's Smash appearances already! I also love how she smiles now, and has a more positive personality. [[User:SteffenSmasher|Steffen_Smasher]] ([[User talk:SteffenSmasher|talk]]) 23:19, 18 July 2018 (EDT)
 :Hey, you might wanna check out [[SW:TALK]]. [[User:TheNuttyOne|TheNuttyOne]] 23:43, 18 July 2018 (EDT)
-==Voice==
-I saw the ''World of light'' trailer, and now I'm thinking...Does this mean she'll have an English voice as well in the Game?
-[[User:Destinithompson|Destinithompson]]
-== Cristina Vee ==
-A [https://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/video-games/Super-Smash-Bros-Ultimate/cast/ number of users] on the "Behind the Voice Actor" site believe Zelda's English voice actor in the "World of Light" trailer sounds a lot like [https://twitter.com/CristinaVee?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor Cristina Vee], a well-known voice actor for anime and video games. She's also the voice of Shantae. I personally do not believe this to be true, but I do think it's worth while to ask her on Twitter. Some may say we should wait until the game is released, but several voice actors who contribute to ''Smash Bros.'' are uncredited because they are unionized. It is against Nintendo's company policy to hire voice actors who are part of unions. They do so sparingly under the obligation that the remain uncredited in the final release. Basically, what I'm saying is that there's no reason why would couldn't ask her now. I would do it myself, but I do not have a Twitter account. [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 13:07, 8 November 2018 (EST)
-:I just asked, and now I await a response. [[File:SonicSpeed48ThanksgivingSig4.png|17px]][[User:SonicSpeed48|<span style="color: gold;">'''Sonic'''</span>]], [[User talk:SonicSpeed48|<span style="color: brown;">'''the Thankful Speedster'''</span>]][[File:FallLovingTigger.png|17px]] 13:15, 8 November 2018 (EST)
-::I went ahead and [https://twitter.com/Ixbran/status/1064027856290963456 asked her my self] as well, I also hope to ask her some follow-up questions if she anwsers yes. Like if she only voices her in cutscenes or if she also does her voice in battle.<br>[[User:Ixbran|Ixbran]] ([[User talk:Ixbran|talk]]) 00:31, 18 November 2018 (EST)
-:::To me, it sounds more like she's being voiced by Cassandra Lee Morris or Stephanie Sheh.<br>[[User:Destinithompson|Destinithompson]]
-:::Playing from ear, I believe that Zelda is voiced by Mela Lee, using a voice similar to how she voiced Rin Tohsaka in Fate/Stay Night. This is because her voice for Tiki has her putting on Received Pronunciation like in Awakening and Heroes for the Adult Tiki, Child Tiki is her normal voice, which also closely resembles Zelda's voice in the game. --[[User:Tailikku|Tailikku]] ([[User talk:Tailikku|talk]]) 10:41, 15 December 2018 (EST)
-::::Sequel to this previous one I wrote, I checked the credits and Christina Vee is not in the game as a voice actor. Or at least not yet.--[[User:Tailikku|Tailikku]] ([[User talk:Tailikku|talk]]) 10:41, 15 December 2018 (EST)
-Personally I think it's most likely Wendee Lee, as she's credited in Ultimate's VA list but nobody's been able to ascertain who she voices; however, it's also possible that Lee's entry was an erroneous one relating to her role as Lyn in FE Heroes (the other two FE ATs use their Heroes voice clips). Regardless, until we know for sure, we shouldn't be claiming one way or another. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Verdana;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 21:05, 16 December 2018 (EST)
-== Some Questions About How Nerfs Are Presented ==
-So I have a couple things that I would like to address:
-As far as I'm aware, every character in the game received at least a few frames increase in the endlag of their grabs, and it also appears that their intangibility frames and startup/endlag on their roll dodges have also been made less safe at least marginally. Should this be presented as a Zelda specific nerf, even though its across the board to punish players who spam grabs and roll dodges?
-As well I have not really seen anything in the way of conclusively determining that the travel distance of Farore's Wind has been shortened. I would remove this (I am currently working on an edit of the entire changes from smash 4 section) but I don't have a way to compare or verify this (I ditched my Wii U a long time ago lol). During my usage of her since the game's release (11 total hours according to the game. Not sure if that counts training mode.) I have not felt like I was trying to accommodate for a shorter reach with the move and feel if anything it has better ledge grab potential than previously, without even discussing the improvements to how teleport moves slide along stage.
-[[User:Lavince|Devout Zelda fan #BanZelda &#91;ZELDA&#93;]] ([[User talk:Lavince|talk]]) 14:08, 19 January 2019 (EST)
-==Significantly vs Greatly buffed==
-To reiterate Draco's argument, significantly buffed is when a barely viable character becomes one of the best in the game. Zelda was barely viable in ''Smash 4'', and she is better in ''Ultimate'', but not to the extent of many other characters like Palutena or Roy, hence she was "greatly buffed". If you have any argument other than "but she was Bottom 5 before", then please state it. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 12:33, September 14, 2019 (EDT)
-:Not necessarily one of the best in the game, but in any case a character has gone from mediocrity to solid tournament representation (so like I said in my revert, at least high tier). Another example in ''Ultimate'' would be Pichu; it went from a low tier joke character to a very prominent character in tournaments prior to updates, and every top player considers it either top tier or high tier. Zelda has not been anywhere near that mark. [[File:034.png|20px]] '''<span style="font-family:Algerian">[[User:DracoRexKing|<font color="red">DracoRex,]]</font> [[User talk:DracoRexKing|<font color="olive">Creator of the Land]]</font></span>''' 16:12, September 14, 2019 (EDT)
-==Zelda's tier placement==
-Some people now think that Zelda will be a low tier again. I'm not sure about this. Her frame data is good, so she is hard to punish, almost all of her attacks can KO at high percentages, and her previously poor neutral game was improved thanks to the changes Phantom Slash. In my opinion, she is underrated and i personally put her in the mid-tier. Do you personally think Zelda is viable? <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:79.49.35.169|79.49.35.169]] ([[User talk:79.49.35.169|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/79.49.35.169|contribs]]) {{{2}}}</small>
-== Zelda's down tilt ==
-Hello, this may be a minor discussion. However, I want to know if this information about Zelda's down tilt animation is necessary to include in the article.
-In ''Smash 4'', Zelda does not face the screen when performing a down tilt. In ''Ultimate'', Zelda faces the screen when performing a down tilt. [[User:Derekblue1|Derekblue1]] ([[User talk:Derekblue1|talk]]) 10:53, October 24, 2019 (EDT)
-Oh, nevermind. Her animations are mirrored.
-== ALtek ==
-Discussion brought as requested. I believed their position as a notable player to be earned by wins over some top French players. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:ESaintx|ESaintx]] ([[User talk:ESaintx|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/ESaintx|contribs]]) 18:46, December 9, 2021 (EST)</small>
-:I'm personally not yet ready to support including ALtek. ALtek has the wins but the placements at majors aren't there for me yet. 97th at Temple and Ultimate 2 and 49th at Ultimate 3. I do expect that to change eventually though. [[User:Wiifitkid|Wiifitkid]] ([[User talk:Wiifitkid|talk]]) 11:11, December 13, 2021 (EST)
-::Got it! Understood, thank you for the consideration. [[User:ESaintx|ESaintx]] ([[User talk:ESaintx|talk]]) 17:45, December 13, 2021 (GMT)
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