Editing Talk:Zelda (SSB4)

==Palette Swaps==
Can someone please write a section on Zelda's confirmed alternate colors (I don't know how)?  I'm not sure exactly what they look like, but I believe there's her normal purple/white costume, red/gold, blue, and dark purple with blonde hair.  Thanks!! [[User:RedZelda|RedZelda]] ([[User talk:RedZelda|talk]]) 14:19, 25 July 2014 (EDT)RedZelda

Sorry,I don't know how to do that. But here's a picture:http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140625124547/ssb/images/2/27/Zelda-0.jpg [[User:Hue hue|Hue hue]] ([[User talk:Hue hue|talk]]) 19:04, 25 July 2014 (EDT)


Thanks so much! [[User:RedZelda|RedZelda]] ([[User talk:RedZelda|talk]]) 20:07, 26 July 2014 (EDT)

You're welcome! Oh,and I love Zelda too,she's one of my smash mains. [[User:Hue hue|Hue hue]] ([[User talk:Hue hue|talk]]) 22:51, 26 July 2014 (EDT)

==Phantom Armor==
Where was it stated that it's specifically a new move of Zelda and not an Assist Trophy or something? <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 10:55, 26 December 2013 (EST)
:It isn't. It was removed before but someone put it back, removing again. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Brass 10:56, 26 December 2013 (EST)
::I think its worth noting that the armor is the same as Zelda Phantom from Spirit Tracks (note the shields unique design, only Zelda had that shield). That makes it less likely an assist trophy and more likely unique to her. Not that we need to note it in the atricle, just think its worth discussing. [[Special:Contributions/174.6.89.112|174.6.89.112]]


==Where did they come from?==
I noticed a lot of new Zelda pictures, but they were not on Miiverse. Where did they come from? (Un-User)
:Please, just type the four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) at the end of your post to sign it. [[User:Scr7|<span style="color:#0000FF"">S</span><span style="color:#7F7FFF">c</span><span style="color:#00FFFF">r</span><span style="color:#FF7F00">7</span>]][[File:Scr7 sig.png|link=]]([[User talk:Scr7|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Scr7|contribs]]) 14:05, 20 January 2014 (EST)
::But where did they come from? (Un-User)[[Special:Contributions/72.105.6.250|72.105.6.250]] 14:27, 26 January 2014 (EST)
:::I found them in a NeoGAF thread linked to by GoNintendo; I believe they were posted on a Nintendo Facebook somewhere. Don't recall the link though. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Non-Toxic 17:59, 26 January 2014 (EST)
::::First time i noticed them, they were in a slide show on a youtube video. So i took screen shots of the youtube video then uploaded them. But then I found high quality versions of those screen shots, then uploaded them over the originals. Needless to say, I am very happy that my favorite Nintendo character has so many screen shots. Shes so fabulous~<3<br>[[User:Ixbran|Ixbran]] ([[User talk:Ixbran|talk]]) 20:51, 28 January 2014 (EST)

They're from here: https://www.facebook.com/WiiU.co.uk/photos_stream --[[User:ZestyLemon|ZestyLemon]] ([[User talk:ZestyLemon|talk]]) 00:58, 11 May 2014 (EDT)

== Zelda's D-Throw & U-Tilt  ==

Her down throw has perhaps recieved one of the most changes in the game: Her d-throw now has fire graphics, send opponents at a vertical angle which gives zelda even more combo options (considerably improving her combo game) and is now a K.O. move at 200%.
I don't know why her up tilt being slightly weaker is considered as a nerf, because it has now drastically more combo potential which (with her d-throw) drastically improves her combo game. But her u-tilt retain his K.O. power. 184.160.78.203 12:07, 9 November 2014 (EST) 12:06, 09- November 2014 (EST) 173.178.107.92

Her down throw isn't a K.O. move at 200%, it deals the same amount of knockback; and more the percentage of the opponent is high, more higher will be the angle until at 100% where the angle will be purely vertical. Furthermore, her up tilt has been drastically weakened to the point that it can no longer K.O. reliably until 180%. It makes an excellent combo move into other moves and into itself until it gains K.O. potential, however. [[User:YoshiKong|YoshiKong]] ([[User talk:YoshiKong|talk]]) 10:11, 22 November 2014 (EST)

== Zelda's Forward Tilt  ==

What was the "combo potential" that Zelda lost in her forward tilt because it no longer send opponents backwards? Because i've looked every page of Zelda's metagame in SSBM and SSBB and there isn't any sign of a combo potential in this move when it send opponents backwards. If you find it, can you respond me? [[User:YoshiKong|YoshiKong]] ([[User talk:YoshiKong|talk]]) 11:23, 21 November 2014 (EST)
:Short hop bair? {{s|user|PikaSamus}} ([[User talk:PikaSamus|talk]]) [[File:PikaSamusSig.png|12px|link=Special:Contributions/PikaSamus|PikaSamus]] 11:28, 21 November 2014 (EST)

It make sense, because it's the same combo that her down throw is capable to do; but if the sweetspot send opponents at the Sakurai angle, this improves it's K.O. potential. [[User:YoshiKong|YoshiKong]] ([[User talk:YoshiKong|talk]]) 11:32, 21 November 2014 (EST)

== Up aerial deals 1% more damage. ==

This isn't a buff! [[User:YoshiKong|YoshiKong]] ([[User talk:YoshiKong|talk]]) 11:41, 21 November 2014 (EST)
==You're all idiots==
Whoever created that MESS of a "Changes from Brawl" list needs to perhaps consider getting SOMETHING right.

Pretty much EVERY SINGLE THING is incorrect. [[User:Aerodrome|Aerodrome]] ([[User talk:Aerodrome|talk]]) 06:56, 23 December 2014 (EST)
:Please read [[SW:TALK]], as well as [[SW:NPA]]. <font face="Marker Felt">[[User:Rtzxy|<span style="color:red;">Rtzxy</span>]] [[File:Reflect.jpg|20x20px]] [[User talk:Rtzxy|<span style="color:green;">''Reflect!''</span>]]</font> 16:16, 24 December 2014 (EST)
:: OK. [[User:Aerodrome|Aerodrome]] ([[User talk:Aerodrome|talk]]) 17:28, 24 December 2014 (EST)

== Lightning Kicks ==

The Lightning Kicks are stronger, not weaker and the sweetspots are easier to land. [[User:YoshiKong|YoshiKong]] ([[User talk:YoshiKong|talk]]) 12:50, 4 January 2015 (EST)

:Stronger yes. But no the sweetspots are much harder to land because the hitboxes are smaller. I recommend you play Melee. The kick is so easy to land in that game.--<span style="background-color:#6d84e1;border:3px solid silver">[[User:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:silver">'''Brian'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:black">Don't try me!</span>]]</sup>[[File:Falco.gif|link=|27px]]</span> 14:13, 4 January 2015 (EST)

Firstly, i have Melee it's been a long, long time and lastly, i'm saying this because in Brawl, they were incredibly tiny, yes, but the animation was tweaked so i think the kicks's sweetspots are almost as easy to land as in Melee. [[User:YoshiKong|YoshiKong]] ([[User talk:YoshiKong|talk]]) 18:51, 4 January 2015 (EST)

==Nerfs==
Her forward tilt and her lightning kicks seem to actually have been buffed from Brawl and not nerfed. At least for me, they KO much easier. [[User:Hue hue|Hue hue]] ([[User talk:Hue hue|talk]]) 13:13, 10 January 2015 (EST)
:I have to disagree. You might be in maximum rage mode at high percentage, where Lightning Kicks and forward tilt kills 25% sooner. Did you look at the Zelda discussion on Smash 4 in Smashboard? Aerodrome and other knowledgeable Smashboard users proved it wrong about lightning kick and forward tilt. Forward tilt has less hitbox size. Landing the sweetspotted lightning kicks, are much harder to land because the hitboxes are smaller like in Brawl.

:Compared to Brawl fair (40b/95g) and bair (44b/96g), Smash 4 fair and bair is: 
{{cquote|
Fair:
Frame  9- 9:   20%         24b/95g (KO@  85%) 361° 1.5-Hitlag 0.0-SDI Magic

Frame  9-13:    4%          5b/96g (KO@ 426%) 361°

Frame  9-13:    4%          5b/80g (KO@ 513%) 361°

Max Damage:   20%

Enables transition to Fair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 4

Cancels transition to Fair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 50

Bair:

Frame  6- 6:   20%         28b/96g (KO@  81%) 361° 1.5-Hitlag 0.0-SDI Magic 

Frame  6- 9:    4%          5b/96g (KO@ 426%) 361°

Frame  6- 9:    4%          5b/80g (KO@ 513%) 361°

Max Damage:   20%

Enables transition to Bair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 3

Cancels transition to Bair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 52
|cite=http://smashboards.com/guides/zelda-guide-lightning-looks-good-on-you.115/}} 
:[[Special:Contributions/98.220.74.197|98.220.74.197]] 13:38, 10 January 2015 (EST)

Well,but just hitbox sizes doesn't make the move weaker. It doesn't seem nerfed to me. It might have a smaller hitbox but I Ko a lot with Zelda's side tilt now(and not on "rage mode")and it Koes easier than in Brawl. Same for her lightning kick. Just because they have smaller hitboxes, doesn't mean it KOes less or that it's less powerful. [[User:Hue hue|Hue hue]] ([[User talk:Hue hue|talk]]) 14:41, 10 January 2015 (EST)

:Yes, they are still good attack. Forward tilt's knockback was unchanged from Brawl outside of the hitbox and damage and Lightning kicks can still KO under 100%. When you said that it can KO easier than in Brawl, you must be playing against an opponent who has bad DI. 

For side tilt, it still has a 
{{cquote|
Frame 12-13:   12%         50b/88g (KO@ 137%) 361° Slash

Frame 12-13:   10%         50b/88g (KO@ 164%) 361° Slash

Max Damage:   12%}}

:[[Special:Contributions/98.220.74.197|98.220.74.197]] 15:14, 10 January 2015 (EST)

Honestly, i absolutely think that Hue Hue is right, i mean, the Lightning Kicks are not weaker, they are stronger, they last for longer (i could be wrong with this one) and they are much easier to land, almost like in Melee for me (because the animation was tweaked) and i find that forward tilt is easier to K.O. with because it no longer send opponents backwards. [[User:YoshiKong|YoshiKong]] ([[User talk:YoshiKong|talk]]) 18:08, 10 January 2015 (EST)
:Um, the data presented here proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that they're weaker in base knockback, and because the damage is the same, they therefore deal less knockback overall. If it KOs easier than in Brawl, it's because you can't attack/airdodge out of knockback, because the attack itself is clearly weaker. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Quiet 19:00, 10 January 2015 (EST)
The ability to act out of hitstun in ''Brawl'' was removed. [[User:YoshiKong|YoshiKong]] ([[User talk:YoshiKong|talk]]) 16:58, 13 January 2015 (EST)

== "Significantly" Nerfed? This seems wrong to me. ==

I know the debate of whether Zelda was nerfed or buffed from Brawl is highly subjective to most people due to the many changes she incurred, but labeling her "significantly nerfed" while she has a lot more added buffs to make up for most nerfs just seems incredibly wrong to me. It's not like Marth where he lost nearly everything and gained almost nothing in return. I feel like "slightly nerfed with a few good buffs" or even "slightly buffed with a few nerfs" would make more sense here.
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@@ Line 37: / Line 37: @@
 It make sense, because it's the same combo that her down throw is capable to do; but if the sweetspot send opponents at the Sakurai angle, this improves it's K.O. potential. [[User:YoshiKong|YoshiKong]] ([[User talk:YoshiKong|talk]]) 11:32, 21 November 2014 (EST)
-I agree, her forward tilt had much too much lag to combo, and since her down throw covers that up, its sort of unnecessary to be labeled as a nerf. Sorry about the signature stuff if it's done wrong, I'm not great at it. [[User:hyruliantower]]
 == Up aerial deals 1% more damage. ==
@@ Line 113: / Line 111: @@
 == "Significantly" Nerfed? This seems wrong to me. ==
-I know the debate of whether Zelda was nerfed or buffed from Brawl is highly subjective to most people due to the many changes she incurred, but labeling her "significantly nerfed" while she has a lot more added buffs to make up for most nerfs just seems incredibly wrong to me. It's not like Marth where he lost nearly everything and gained almost nothing in return. I feel like "slightly nerfed with a few good buffs" or even "slightly buffed with a few nerfs" would make more sense here. Pure data only tells you so much.
+I know the debate of whether Zelda was nerfed or buffed from Brawl is highly subjective to most people due to the many changes she incurred, but labeling her "significantly nerfed" while she has a lot more added buffs to make up for most nerfs just seems incredibly wrong to me. It's not like Marth where he lost nearly everything and gained almost nothing in return. I feel like "slightly nerfed with a few good buffs" or even "slightly buffed with a few nerfs" would make more sense here.
-:At the time of the above unsigned comment, the Mewtwo patch (Version 1.0.6) had not been released. Prior to 1.0.6, the Zelda of the 3DS version was in fact drastically worse than her Brawl counterpart. ''(The 3DS version is considered first as it has been rebalanced more often than the Wii U version.)''
-:However, in the Mewtwo patch, Zelda has received more than a few buffs to her moves and is now a more viable fighter.
-Most people, casual and competitive alike, all seem to agree that Zelda may be THE worst character in Smash 4. Her tournaments results are extremely low (even Nairo barely touches her), she got some bad nerfs transitioning from Brawl, which makes little sense seeing as how poorly she did as Brawl's metagame evolved. For those of you who remember, Zelda was initially thought to be a great character when Brawl first came out. But when Smash 4 came out, EVERYONE who plays smash immediately noticed that she was lacking. She really was drastically nerfed.
-:Any comments on whether the character is significantly changed are playing on the current online-legal version of the game (at the time). While they are subject to change, we also ''attempt'' to be as objective and honest as we can. Yes, it is fleeting and obsolete by the time of the next balance patch, but worthwhile for quick comparison. [[User:Blackbrass|Blackbrass]] ([[User talk:Blackbrass|talk]]) 18:59, 21 May 2015 (EDT)
-I personally don't agree at all that she is the worst character. In my opinion she's near the top of the low-tiers. Mewtwo, Mii-Gunner, Palutena (without Customs), Samus, and Ganondorf all seem worse to me. Not to mention she's been buffed during updates. She was definitely not "significantly nerfed" I think she was slightly buffed. I just don't agree with that statement at all, and other characters have had worst results than her. It's too early to ppick a worst character as there isn't even a defined tier list yet.[[User:Chliu|Chliu]] ([[User talk:Chliu|talk]]) 09:53, 21 November 2015 (EST)
-== Midair Farore's Wind ==
-Can it still go straight down when used in midair in SSB4? Whenever I try to do it I end up going down and really far left or right and down. [[Special:Contributions/99.248.24.212|99.248.24.212]] 01:00, 21 June 2015 (EDT)
-:Yes. It gets me too even when not in midair (as I use the 3DS version). All I can recommend is that you be careful. [[User:Blackbrass|Blackbrass]] ([[User talk:Blackbrass|talk]]) 13:45, 23 June 2015 (EDT)
-== Do Zelda really struggle to land the KO? ==
-In the Changes from Brawl section, it is said that Zelda has trouble landing the KO, but I don't think so. She has good kill set ups, like Dtilt to Uair, Dthrow to Uair, Din's Fire frame trap to whatever kill move or Elevator OOS. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:TalTal8|TalTal8]] ([[User talk:TalTal8|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TalTal8|contribs]]) 8:04 9 August 2015 (EDT)</small>
-:I'm not sure if Zelda struggle to land the KO. Some characters like her have some options for a KO set ups. Elevator OOS is a risky and difficult KO set up, because a good player can DI the first hit to avoid the second hit, unless you adjust to the DI. I found KO set ups from her down throw reliable to KO. That could be a safe KO setup option, like some of characters' throws that is a KO set up. Dtilt to uair is also a good KO set ups as well. I'm not sure about Din's Fire, since it takes more skill to use properly and it is situational. [[User:Luigi540|Luigi540]] ([[User talk:Luigi540|talk]]) 10:33, 9 August 2015 (EDT)
-== Worst Character? ==
-It's too early to pick a worst character. I don't get why people think Zelda is the worst character with her Farore's Wind which kills Midweights At >70% and with Rage 60%.Her f-smash is unpunishable she has combos (and a combo throw), her Lightning kicks, a good recovery, a decent pummel and kill throw. I do feel she is the upper low tiers.[[User:Chliu|Chliu]] ([[User talk:Chliu|talk]]) 18:33, 21 November 2015 (EST)
-:"''It's too early to pick a worst character.''"
-:The game has been out for over a year, with a large and very active competitive scene, and things as a whole have been stabilizing. We have a solid idea now on who the best and worst characters are. Sure a character could very well potentially be over/underrated and end up actually being worse/better than they were percieved before, in fact probably a large amount of Smash 4's cast could undergo significant viability perceptions even without patches significantly changing them. But the wiki reports on the present and what has happened, and as it is Zelda has been considered near-unanimously to be one of the worst characters in the game since release even after all the buffing patches, with nothing in sight showing Zelda to have some hidden potential.
-:Also remember to sign your comments on talk pages with four tildes <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 10:21, 21 November 2015 (EST)
-::Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that consensus was split between Zelda and Samus. [[File:Nyargleblargle.png|16px]][[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color:maroon;text-shadow:0px 0px 2px #ffa500">'''Nyargle</span><span style="color: orange;text-shadow:0px 0px 2px #800000;">blargle'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Nyargleblargle|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|Contribs]]) 10:56, 21 November 2015 (EST)
-With constant updates there hasn't even been an official tier list. Honestly I think either Mewtwo or Miigunner is the worst, then Samus and Palutena, then ganondorf zelda and jigglypuff/dr.mario. Zelda has quite a lot of things going for her, especially her ridiculously powerful teleport. [[User:Chliu|Chliu]] ([[User talk:Chliu|talk]]) 18:33, 21 November 2015 (EST)
-== Zelda's guaranteed kill set-ups ==
-.56.92.44, Zelda's down throw to up-air and up-b are not guaranteed. Test it out, it's not a true combo. I use her, and her best kill option is her up-b, which cannot be comboed into 100%. Her combo throw is also not amazing and doesn't connect reliably at higher percents. However, she is definitely not the worst character as some people would suggest. How is she worse than ganondorf, mewtwo, mii gunner, and mii swordfighter? I do not want to be at risk of violating a policy [[User:Chliu|Chliu]] ([[User talk:Chliu|talk]]) 22:51, 11 December 2015 (EST)
-== About the last edit ==
-[[User:Shadow|Shadow]], I'd really like to undo your edit... but I can't undo it without general consensus. While it is true Zelda is bottom tier according to the first offcial tier list, that tier list, will soon be obsolete in one and a half days. So I'll not undo it. --[[File:BeepYouSignature.png|50px]] <font color="Black">'''The 70's called. They said'''</font> [[User:BeepYou|<font color="Black">'''BeepYou was here :v'''</font>]] [[User talk:BeepYou|<font color="Black">'''(talk)'''</font>]] 23:19, 1 February 2016 (EST)
-== Just going through and checking for inconsistencies since patches have been released. ==
-I would like to remove the sentence from her Attributes section about Nayru's Love Jump, since it got patched out (I don't remember which patch it was). I'm just unsure if that section refers to pre-patch Zelda, where it was possible, or current Zelda, before I remove it.
-== Potential 1.1.5 Buffs (!!!) ==
-Looks like:
-Nair: Final (5th) hitbox damage 3 > 5
-Jab: Final (3rd) hitbox damage 3 > 5
-Uair: Damage 15 > 17
-http://smashboards.com/threads/1-1-5-patch-notes.433162/
-^^ is where I found the first two, the Uair change I tested out myself.
-BOTTOM TIER NO MORE #BanZelda <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Lavince|Lavince]] ([[User talk:Lavince|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lavince|contribs]]) </small>
-:If it's on the official smashboards patch notes, then it's verifiable. Go ahead and add it if you like. [[User: RobSir_zx|<span style="color:orange">Rob</span><span style="color:blue">'''Sir '''</span>]] [[File:RobSir-sig.jpg|16px|link=http://www.ssbwiki.com/images/8/8d/G%26WTheme.ogg]] [[Special:Contributions/RobSir zx|<span style="color:red">zx</span>]] 00:25, 16 March 2016 (EDT)
-The up air buff hasn't been confirmed yet on the site though.  I'll add these and format tomorrow when I have time.
-[[User:Lavince|I suppose I am a verifier of patch notes? (or would it be discreditor of patch notes?) &#91;ZELDA&#93;]] ([[User talk:Lavince|talk]]) 00:43, 16 March 2016 (EDT)
-== Zelda Up Air Changes? ==
-It says Zelda up Air kbg was changed from 110-84 from Brawl. Even with the increased damage brawl's up air would KO earlier. Is it confirmed the kbg was 110 and originally nerfed to 90 in ssb4? [[User:Chliu|Chliu]] ([[User talk:Chliu|talk]]) 10:32, 17 June 2016 (EDT)
-:''"Even with the increased damage brawl's up air would KO earlier."''
-:''"Zelda up Air kbg was changed from 110-84 from Brawl"''
-:Didn't you just solve your dilemma right there? <span style="font-family:Orbitron">[[User:Megatron1|<span style="color:maroon">Mega</span>]][[User talk:Megatron1|<span style="color:silver">Tron1</span>]]</span>[[File:Decepticon.png|19px]] 14:34, 17 June 2016 (EDT)
-:Increased damage means more knockback, unless the knockback is compensated. [[User:Luigi540|Luigi540]] ([[User talk:Luigi540|talk]]) 17:07, 17 June 2016 (EDT)
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