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| While more basic, tripping is the much more common term used among the Smash community, so I '''support''' the move. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 02:35, 13 July 2011 (EDT) | | While more basic, tripping is the much more common term used among the Smash community, so I '''support''' the move. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 02:35, 13 July 2011 (EDT) |
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| Not really necessary, the redirect from "Tripping" is already in place, and the official term IS "Prat Falling". Unless anyone has a good reason why this is important, i am '''against'''. [[User:Pokémonultimate|<font color="red">'''Pokémon'''</font>]][[User talk:Pokémonultimate|<font color="blue">'''ultimate'''</font>]] [[File:PokemonTrainerHeadSSBB.png|20px]] 19:43, 5 December 2011 (EST) | | Not really necessary, the redirect from "Tripping" is already in place, and the official term IS "Prat Falling". Unless anyone has a good reason why this is important, i am '''against'''. [[User:Pokémonultimate|<font color="red">'''Pokémon'''</font>]][[User talk:Pokémonultimate|<font color="blue">'''ultimate'''</font>]] [[File:PTHeadSSBB.png|20px]] 19:43, 5 December 2011 (EST) |
| :[[SmashWiki is not official]] | | :[[SmashWiki is not official]] |
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| ::If they'd never heard the term ''Tripping'' before, they'd struggle to get here in the first place. Learning the name ''Tripping'' is not trivial, whereas ''Prat Falling'' is, because it's a nugget of official information which people may not have known before. [[User:ToastUltimatum|<font color="darkorange">'''Toast'''</font>]] [[File:Wii U Logo Transparent.png|17px|link=Special:Contributions/ToastUltimatum]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|<font color="seablue">'''ltimatum'''</font>]][[File:Transparent Swadloon.png|26px]] 07:54, 9 December 2011 (EST) | | ::If they'd never heard the term ''Tripping'' before, they'd struggle to get here in the first place. Learning the name ''Tripping'' is not trivial, whereas ''Prat Falling'' is, because it's a nugget of official information which people may not have known before. [[User:ToastUltimatum|<font color="darkorange">'''Toast'''</font>]] [[File:Wii U Logo Transparent.png|17px|link=Special:Contributions/ToastUltimatum]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|<font color="seablue">'''ltimatum'''</font>]][[File:Transparent Swadloon.png|26px]] 07:54, 9 December 2011 (EST) |
| :::Toast, just bealcause you do not agree with the policy does not change the fact that it is a policy. [[User:Mr. Anon|<font color="grey">'''Mr. '''</font><font color="midnightblue">'''Anon'''</font>]][[File:MatchupUnknown.png|23px|link=Special:Random]][[User talk:Mr. Anon|''<span style="color: black;">talk</span>'']] 17:03, 9 December 2011 (EST) | | :::Toast, just bealcause you do not agree with the policy does not change the fact that it is a policy. [[User:Mr. Anon|<font color="grey">'''Mr. '''</font><font color="midnightblue">'''Anon'''</font>]][[File:MatchupUnknown.png|23px|link=Special:Random]][[User talk:Mr. Anon|''<span style="color: black;">talk</span>'']] 17:03, 9 December 2011 (EST) |
| :::''Having the term ''Prat Falling'' in the same esque as Ukemi isn't too noticable, and if someone was skimming through the page, say to learn the occurance criteria, they could miss the information.''
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| :::As I told you before Toast, them missing what the official term is is not our problem, and in that case, the user doesn't care about the official term anyway. And it's not like them missing what the official term is is going to deprive them of vital information about Smash.
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| :::''If they'd never heard the term ''Tripping'' before, they'd struggle to get here in the first place. Learning the name ''Tripping'' is not trivial, whereas ''Prat Falling'' is, because it's a nugget of official information which people may not have known before.''
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| :::That first sentence is just silly, as we pointed out before, tripping is the much wider used and intuitive term, and can be applied moreso to prat falling than tripping. And again, them not knowing the term prat falling is not going to deprive them of vital/useful information. Plus, as we told you before, prat falling will '''still be mentioned on the page as being the official term'''. '''It does not need to be the title for users to get this information you seem to think is so damn important'''.
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| :::Now Toast, this is the last time I'm telling you. Come up with an argument that '''does not involve prat falling being the official term''', or stop posting here. It being the official term has zero weight here, and if you don't stop going on about it, I'll completely ignore you and only respond with a link to [[SmashWiki is not official]]. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 09:17, 10 December 2011 (EST)
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| ::::A line from [[SW:OFFICIAL]] - ''SmashWiki is a branch of NIWA and as such, is held accountable only to the standards and practices set by NIWA, as well as any additional standards and practices '''agreed upon by the users.''''' That is all I have to say. Once one side gains enough support, go with it. But as things stand, not enough users agree, because the ratio is 5:3, so therefore, nothing can be done right now. [[User:ToastUltimatum|<font color="darkorange">'''Toast'''</font>]] [[File:Wii U Logo Transparent.png|17px|link=Special:Contributions/ToastUltimatum]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|<font color="seablue">'''ltimatum'''</font>]][[File:Transparent Swadloon.png|26px]] 09:27, 10 December 2011 (EST)
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| :::::And you conveniently ignore the rest. You know what the "standards and practices agreed upon by the users" on this Wiki is? That being the official term is meaningless in deciding the page title if there's another much wider used term among the community, hence the creation and passing of that policy. Read the whole policy, and don't strawman it like that to make it seem it supports you.
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| :::::''But as things stand, not enough users agree, because the ratio is 5:3, so therefore, nothing can be done right now.''
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| :::::You do realise discussions like these are not a straight vote count? And with all three opposes relying on the terribad argument of prat falling being the official term, which is completely invalidated by [[SW:OFFICIAL]], this is going to be moved to tripping unless you guys can come up with a legitimate argument on how prat falling is more used and notable throughout the community (not to mention 5 to 3 in a straight vote count that completely ignores what the users posted would be enough to move this page anyway). <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 09:38, 10 December 2011 (EST)
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| ::::::Fine, I'll get more obscure with my reasoning. One example could be that SSB4 might have more emphasis on prat falling. Any of the following could happen;
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| ::::::#An instructional video might say "be careful not to change direction too sharply, or you might prat fall!"
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| ::::::#A trophy could mention it, e.g "Luigi has a slightly higher chance of prat falling than all of the other characters"
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| ::::::#Tripping could become the name of an attack. Say if Giygas was a boss, he could have an attack called "tripping"
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| ::::::#The DOJO could have more usage of the word.
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| ::::::#A difference could be clarified. For example, something like the DOJO or a trophy could say "But Lucas isn't under the conditions of prat falling with this taunt, he's just tripping over"
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| ::::::[[User:ToastUltimatum|<font color="darkorange">'''Toast'''</font>]] [[File:Wii U Logo Transparent.png|17px|link=Special:Contributions/ToastUltimatum]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|<font color="seablue">'''ltimatum'''</font>]][[File:Transparent Swadloon.png|26px]] 10:21, 10 December 2011 (EST)
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| :::::::We're supposed to keep the title here based entirely on speculation of what is to come in Smash 4? And we're somehow unable to move the page back here in the future in the case prat falling usurps tripping as the common term?
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| :::::::You'll need a different argument. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 10:36, 10 December 2011 (EST)
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| ::::::::Rather than counter-arguing against the same two points further, I'd like to see another significant reason supportive of the move, because frankly, [[SW:OFFICIAL]], nor a name being more well-known is changing my mind. And even if your points outweigh mine, I can still choose to oppose, just as things work in politics. A party can give a very impressive pitch, but still not get votes, i.e. the UK Liberal Democrats. Even though I'm highly unliable to personally change my mind (the only thing that would do so for definite would be Tripping becoming the official name in SSB4), I'd still like to hear some more perspectives. [[User:ToastUltimatum|<font color="darkorange">'''Toast'''</font>]] [[File:Wii U Logo Transparent.png|17px|link=Special:Contributions/ToastUltimatum]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|<font color="seablue">'''ltimatum'''</font>]][[File:Transparent Swadloon.png|26px]] 12:00, 10 December 2011 (EST)
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| :::::::::And as I told you, an oppose based entirely on prat falling being the official term, such as yours, will be ignored. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 14:29, 10 December 2011 (EST)
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| ::::::::::Once again, Toast, [[SW:OFFICIAL]] is SmashWiki policy. I don't care whether you disagree with it; if you do, put up a proposal on its talk page. not here. [[User:Mr. Anon|<font color="grey">'''Mr. '''</font><font color="midnightblue">'''Anon'''</font>]][[File:MatchupUnknown.png|23px|link=Special:Random]][[User talk:Mr. Anon|''<span style="color: black;">talk</span>'']] 14:43, 10 December 2011 (EST)
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| <small>(Reset Indent)</small>'''Support:''' I agree with the other "approvals". --{{User:Hornet Ontario/Sig}} 19:06, 9 December 2011 (EST)
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| == Tripping controversy ==
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| As in the edit summary, show some actual people that like it, not the editors saying they like it.
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| Also Toomai, it can't be "skill balancing" when it affects weaker players just as much as stronger players. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 22:09, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
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| I'll also point out that the definition of universal is "Common to all members of a group or class". When the amount of people who dislike is easily at least 10 to 1 (and I'm willing to bet it's more, as I've never came across anyone who likes tripping), universal is definitely the appropriate term, not "many". <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 22:14, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
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| :If the wording's that important, then use "vast majority", because I'm pretty sure the average person will read "universal" as "absolutely everyone" - and if we're going to be pedantic, someone must have liked it for it to pass developer mustard, and with over 10 million sales it's basically statistically certain that many random casuals we'll never hear of think it's hilarious.
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| :And okay maybe my term of "skill-balancing" was a bit misused. I meant something like "It provides players of less skill an opportunity to defeat, or at least come close to, those of more skill". In casual circles close games are generally more fun than steamrolls and tripping has the opportunity to result in that (yes it can work backwards, but the point is it makes skill slightly less important). [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Interspacial 22:23, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
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| ::I've thought of a compromise; use "universal" when referring to competitive players (we can all agree no one who plays competitively approves of tripping), and then we can stick to "many" when referring to casuals.
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| ::As for the over 10 million sales, as disliked as tripping is, it's still a very minor part of the game that alone cannot change sales (and we can be certain the majority of people who bought the game weren't aware of tripping beforehand, so it's not like it could realistically affect sales anyway).
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| ::As for giving lesser skilled players an opportunity to win, items achieve that a lot better, and are completely optional to have on :p <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 04:42, 29 September 2012 (EDT)
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| :::I still disagree with some of your arguments (e.g. I wasn't implying that tripping was affecting sales) but will accept the compromise instead of continuing to argue. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Indescribable 10:16, 29 September 2012 (EDT)
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| == Tripping attacks ==
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| I think the following attacks might have a chance of tripping
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| *Wolf's down tilt
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| *Falco's late-hitting down aerial on a grounded opponent
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| Dunno the chance percentages though. [[User:Scr7|<span style="color:#0000FF"">S</span><span style="color:#7F7FFF">c</span><span style="color:#00FFFF">r</span><span style="color:#FF7F00">7</span>]][[File:Scr7 sig.png|link=]]([[User talk:Scr7|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Scr7|contribs]]) 09:56, 2 November 2013 (EDT)
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| :Checking and adding. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Incomperable 10:31, 2 November 2013 (EDT)
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| I think I've found another attack that trips.
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| --Ganondorf's reverse up-air weak hitbox.
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| --I could also not get his down tilt to trip after numerous tries as it seems to bring the opponent off the ground. I think this might be a mistake.
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| :It isn't. Just add this info yourself, there's nothing stopping you. And please remember to '''sign your comments''' using four tildes (~). [[User:Iron Warrior|<span style="color: red;">'''Iron Reggie,'''</span>]] [[User talk:Iron Warrior|<span style="color: yellow;">'''the Easter Bunny Warrior'''</span>]] 23:13, 29 March 2018 (EDT)
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| I added the data, and I'm fairly certain that Ganon down-tilt does not trip. It states that attacks that knock the target into the air can't trip, and Ganon's down tilt seems to knock the opponent into the air even at 0%.
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| :It's because of the angle. However, it does have a trip chance programmed into it. [[User:Iron Warrior|<span style="color: black;">'''Foolish Reggie,'''</span>]] [[User talk:Iron Warrior|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Prankster Warrior'''</span>]] 23:38, 29 March 2018 (EDT)
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| Btw, you still aren't signing your comments. Have a read of the [[Help:Talk page|talk page policy]] before responding to this. [[User:Iron Warrior|<span style="color: black;">'''Foolish Reggie,'''</span>]] [[User talk:Iron Warrior|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Prankster Warrior'''</span>]] 01:23, 30 March 2018 (EDT)
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| == Did anyone else do this? ==
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| Hey guys, I've been testing some rather overlooked features in Brawl, and I happened to "stumble" across a new discovery. Well, apparently when you move the control stick in either direction while random tripping, you can actually nullify the second portion of tripping. I call it the "scorpion" because it just looks like that funny pose.
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| Now, I'm just wondering, did any one of you notice this? If not, go test it and see for yourselves. [[User:Requiem of Ice|Requiem of Ice]] ([[User talk:Requiem of Ice|talk]]) 16:59, 2 March 2014 (EST)
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| == Pratfalling ==
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| A bonus in Melee is called "Pratfalling". Does this refer to the state of helplessness after using an up special move, or something else? I'm wondering if pratfalling may not mean tripping in Brawl, then. {{s|user|Red}} ([[User talk:Red|talk]]) [[File:RedSig.png|12px|link=Special:Contributions/Red|Red]] 10:23, 21 May 2014 (EDT)
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| :As said on the [[list of bonuses]] page, it refers to landing face up after tumbling. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Eggster 10:48, 21 May 2014 (EDT)
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| == Tripping is official now ==
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| In one of the tips about Diddy's banana peels in Smash 3DS, it says "Have a nice trip!". Should the unofficial icon be removed? {{s|user|PikaSamus}} ([[User talk:PikaSamus|talk]]) [[File:PikaSamusSig.png|12px|link=Special:Contributions/PikaSamus|PikaSamus]] 10:41, 19 September 2014 (EDT)
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| :It's a common joke, so I don't think it carries the weight of "official term status". [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Celeritous 10:42, 19 September 2014 (EDT)
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| ::That makes sense. {{s|user|PikaSamus}} ([[User talk:PikaSamus|talk]]) [[File:PikaSamusSig.png|12px|link=Special:Contributions/PikaSamus|PikaSamus]] 10:45, 19 September 2014 (EDT)
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| == an actual trip chance value for attacks ==
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| I'd like to bring up the possibility of adding an actual % chance for tripping instead of using vague notions like '2%-25%' or '2%-12%'. KuroganeHammer a while ago brought up the idea that the game chose between those values randomly, but it's not exactly right. There are a few reasons why using the average of those two values is not only easier to think about, but correct. From a statistical standpoint, if there's a 50/50 scenario for two random variables measuring the same outcome (let's say the chances are A and B), then the overall chance for the event to occur is exactly 0.5A+0.5B = (A+B)/2, which is their average. In Brawl, this would mean that the trip chance would be (0.25+0.02)/2 = 0.135, and in Smash 4 it would be 0.07. But let's say you were concerned with representing how the game actually calculates the chance that you trip. Since these are floats, we can set them to be less than 0 or more than 1, which no longer makes sense in a statistical context, but it's still computable. If you set the numbers to 2 and 0, the result is that a move that applies the base trip chance will always trip. If the game chose either value randomly, then it would have a 50% to trip instead. If it chose a random number between 0 and 2 for trip chance, then the trip chance would be 75% (equal to the area under the probability distribution/length). To rule out the possibility that using a number > 1 messes with calculations, you can set the values 1.5 and 0, and it will trip 75% of the time (I tested this in both Brawl and Smash 4). Lastly, I even checked the asm code within Brawl to figure out where it calculates trip chance, and I found that it literally takes the two trip chance values and does the computation (0.25-0.02)*0.5+0.02, and the resulting value [0.135 + bonus trip chance (if any)] is compared to a random float (not sure of the range here, but I think it's just a float in between 0 and 1) to tell whether you trip.
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| Basically I'm saying that it would be better to use the values 13.5% (Brawl) and 7% (Smash 4) than to use a non-specific range for a statistical chance (lol). It still doesn't make sense that they would use 2 values, but I have yet to see any evidence that the game does anything different in any scenario. I will probably make the change soon enough--[[User:Ben Hall|Ben Hall]] ([[User talk:Ben Hall|talk]]) 22:57, 30 September 2017 (EDT)
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| == trip chance value in Brawl for dashing and dash-turning (remark about edit) ==
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| I don't know how to address a specific user here, but for Serpent King, I literally analyzed the assembler code that calculates trip chance and I identified all values controlling the rate when starting a dash or running-turnaround. The game takes the average of the IC-Basic values (0.02) and (0) to calculate the 0.01 trip rate for dashing and it takes the average of (0.025) and (0) to calculate the 1.25% chance of trips. These values are IC-Basic[3209] through IC-Basic[3212], which you can find now labeled on the [http://opensa.dantarion.com/wiki/IC-MemoryMap#Float_IC-Basics OpenSA floating point IC map]. If you care to analyze the ASM for the function that calculates the trip chance, you can find the function located at code address 8089e820. Additionally one edit I forgot to add was that there is a minimum time of 10 seconds in between random trips due to dashing or running-turnarounds. This value is located on the same page in the Int IC-Basics category, IC-Basic[23059]. All of this can be modded and confirmed.--[[User:Ben Hall|Ben Hall]] ([[User talk:Ben Hall|talk]]) 22:41, 30 October 2017 (EDT)
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| EDIT: [https://imgur.com/a/7LshE Here's a couple photos of the assembler code that computes this value.]--[[User:Ben Hall|Ben Hall]] ([[User talk:Ben Hall|talk]]) 23:06, 30 October 2017 (EDT)
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| :Alright fair enough. Uh...for future's sake, if you want to address me directly, you should use my [[User talk:Serpent King|talk page]], but this worked out fine in the end too. Also in the future, simply summarizing that in the edit summary would have saved the confusion. If you can back up your findings as you just have, that's great, but too many people find inaccurate information out there (or indeed just "playtest" it and make assumptions and guesses) and try to put it on SmashWiki, which is why I called it out. Thanks, though for your explanation. <span style="font-family:Chiller;font-size:18px;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px #000">'''[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#d50">Serpent</span>]] [[File:SKSigHalloween.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#d50">King</span>]]'''</span> 23:36, 30 October 2017 (EDT)
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| ::I'll try to be better about making the sources clear and following the etiquette in the future, as I am new to Wiki editing. Thank you for understanding--[[User:Ben Hall|Ben Hall]] ([[User talk:Ben Hall|talk]]) 23:57, 30 October 2017 (EDT)
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