Editing Talk:Tough Guy

==Assistance==
Hello, everyone. As you all know, I have began the framework for the Tough Guy article. I am currently doing extensive research in regard to what moves Bowser can "tough out". If anybody has the time, any contributions and changes to the article would be appreciated.
[[User:Thecontributor22|Thecontributor22]] ([[User talk:Thecontributor22|talk]]) 17:05, April 21, 2019 (EDT)

== Tough Body ==

According to the Tips menu, Kazuya's ability is called Tough Body. [[User:0%Kamikazee|0%Kamikazee]] ([[User talk:0%Kamikazee|talk]]) 23:17, June 29, 2021 (EDT)

:Shouldn't we change the title of this article to "Tough Guy / Tough Body", then? [[User:CSR|CSR]] ([[User talk:CSR|talk]]) 01:41, July 2, 2021 (EDT)

Tough Guy and Tough Body are two different abilities. Kazuya's should have it's own page.

[[User:Little Warrior|<span style="background:#040; color:yellow; padding:2px 2px;font-size:12px;">A Little Warrior</span>]][[User talk:Little Warrior|<span style="background:#040; color:yellow; padding:2px 1px;font-size:12px;">Was Here</span>]] 11:58, July 4, 2021 (EDT)
:There's no difference besides the fact that Tough Guy resists 19 units and Tough Body resists 14. Even if my previous assumption that Kazuya resists hitstun turns out to be correct, they're not significantly different enough to warrant separate pages. [[Special:Contributions/68.4.176.97|68.4.176.97]] 14:02, July 4, 2021 (EDT)
::I'm all for "Tough Guy / Tough Body." There is definitely not enough different about the two mechanics to warrant separate pages; and any other obvious name that I can think of ("Tough Guy / Body," "Tough," or leaving it as just "Tough Guy") would feel awkward for varying reasons. Sincerely, [[User:SamtheBKBoss|Samuel]] the [[User talk:SamtheBKBoss|<span style="color: #0123A8">'''Banjo-'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/SamtheBKBoss|<span style="color: #FF1901">'''Kazooie'''</span>]] Boss. [[File:SamtheBKBossSIGN.png|16px]] 23:11, July 9, 2021 (EDT)

The official English subtitles for the Kazuya presentation refer to it as "continuous super armor", so clearly a more generic name is viable. I would personally suggest a page title of "Passive armor", analogous to how we renamed "Shield (Link)" to "Passive shield" when it became a mechanic available to someone who wasn't (a version of) Link. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Verdana;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 23:21, July 9, 2021 (EDT)
:I am seconding "Passive armor" or "Continuous armor" as possible generic titles. The latter is more "official", due to being used in a Sakurai presentation, but potentially less clear. Should be noted that this isn't "super armor" as we define it, so the full "official" name used by Sakurai is not viable. --[[User:Rdrfc|Rdrfc]] ([[User talk:Rdrfc|talk]]) 05:06, July 13, 2021 (EDT)
:'''Strong support for "passive armor"''', which is how the armor on Giga Bowser has been described on the armor lists for [[List of armored attacks (SSBB)|Brawl]] and [[List of armored attacks (SSB4)|Smash 4]]. On Smash 4 in particular, we also used it to describe the other transformation Final Smashes. Thus, it would also make the page more open-ended and allow us to cover more instances of the mechanic and explain their respective differences. There's a ton of benefits to this, as well as the fact "passive" is the most idiot-proof. --[[File:PlagueSigImage.png|20px]][[User:Plague von Karma|<span style="color: #e68;">'''Plague'''</span>]][[User talk:Plague von Karma|<span style="color: #e68;">''' von Karma'''</span>]][[File:PlagueSigImage.png|20px]] 16:24, July 28, 2021 (EDT)

I do think a more generic name would be better than the current name. However, I will also point out that this page doesn't really need to stand alone - there's nothing unique about it that requires it to be more than just a section (or even a bullet point) on the general "armour" page. The "what can Bowser eat" tables would go, but that'd be okay because the wiki generally does not list full post-calculation results like this for anything else (we list some examples and point to "full list"s elsewhere). [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[File:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Chilled 17:37, July 28, 2021 (EDT)
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@@ Line 14: / Line 14: @@
 :There's no difference besides the fact that Tough Guy resists 19 units and Tough Body resists 14. Even if my previous assumption that Kazuya resists hitstun turns out to be correct, they're not significantly different enough to warrant separate pages. [[Special:Contributions/68.4.176.97|68.4.176.97]] 14:02, July 4, 2021 (EDT)
 ::I'm all for "Tough Guy / Tough Body." There is definitely not enough different about the two mechanics to warrant separate pages; and any other obvious name that I can think of ("Tough Guy / Body," "Tough," or leaving it as just "Tough Guy") would feel awkward for varying reasons. Sincerely, [[User:SamtheBKBoss|Samuel]] the [[User talk:SamtheBKBoss|<span style="color: #0123A8">'''Banjo-'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/SamtheBKBoss|<span style="color: #FF1901">'''Kazooie'''</span>]] Boss. [[File:SamtheBKBossSIGN.png|16px]] 23:11, July 9, 2021 (EDT)
-:::Heck ''that'' opinion, I'm now all for "'''Passive Armour'''" (or "Passive ''Armor''" I guess for consistency...). Sincerely, [[User:SamtheBKBoss|Samuel]] the [[User talk:SamtheBKBoss|<span style="color: #0123A8">'''Banjo-'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/SamtheBKBoss|<span style="color: #FF1901">'''Kazooie'''</span>]] Boss. [[File:SamtheBKBossSIGN.png|16px]] 18:05, July 28, 2021 (EDT)
 The official English subtitles for the Kazuya presentation refer to it as "continuous super armor", so clearly a more generic name is viable. I would personally suggest a page title of "Passive armor", analogous to how we renamed "Shield (Link)" to "Passive shield" when it became a mechanic available to someone who wasn't (a version of) Link. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Verdana;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 23:21, July 9, 2021 (EDT)
@@ Line 21: / Line 20: @@
 I do think a more generic name would be better than the current name. However, I will also point out that this page doesn't really need to stand alone - there's nothing unique about it that requires it to be more than just a section (or even a bullet point) on the general "armour" page. The "what can Bowser eat" tables would go, but that'd be okay because the wiki generally does not list full post-calculation results like this for anything else (we list some examples and point to "full list"s elsewhere). [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[File:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Chilled 17:37, July 28, 2021 (EDT)
-:I strongly disagree on the subject of removing the table. The Bowser community actively uses this wiki's table as a resource all the time, and it has done nothing to harm the page bar "looking ugly", which isn't the fault of the data but the wiki in my opinion. Knockback scaling is extremely hard to visualise for the average smasher — I, myself, have issues despite constantly researching mechanics — and I can't see how a table doing this exhaustively is problematic. The wiki is meant to be a centralised place for knowledge on the game, and this is an amazing source of information. If anything, it should have its own page akin to the armor lists that can be used as a "see also" subject, but removing it feels like an awful proposal. That table is pretty much the only source for this info. --[[File:PlagueSigImage.png|20px]][[User:Plague von Karma|<span style="color: #e68;">'''Plague'''</span>]][[User talk:Plague von Karma|<span style="color: #e68;">''' von Karma'''</span>]][[File:PlagueSigImage.png|20px]] 17:59, July 28, 2021 (EDT)
-Me and Lattie have worked on a page that aims to be the new status quo once the move happens, so the name can be changed with confidance. We went with the term [[User:Plague von Karma/Passive armor|Passive armor]]. Thanks to the Wiki Discord for assisting along the way too. --[[File:PlagueSigImage.png|20px]][[User:Plague von Karma|<span style="color: #e68;">'''Plague'''</span>]][[User talk:Plague von Karma|<span style="color: #e68;">''' von Karma'''</span>]][[File:PlagueSigImage.png|20px]] 16:58, October 5, 2021 (EDT)
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