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| == Special Moves == | | == Special Moves == |
| How does SMN effect special moves? Does the move itself use one staleness or is the aerial version seperate? If so, if a move is the same in both the air and on the ground, is it still seperate? Depending on the answers, this might be worth noting in the article (if anyone knows the answers). [[User:FirstaLasto|<font color="pink">♡</font>'''Firsta'''Lasto<font color="pink">♥</font>]] 15:31, 2 March 2014 (EST) | | How does SMN effect special moves? Does the move itself use one staleness or is the aerial version seperate? If so, if a move is the same in both the air and on the ground, is it still seperate? Depending on the answers, this might be worth noting in the article (if anyone knows the answers). [[User:FirstaLasto|<font color="pink">♡</font>'''Firsta'''Lasto<font color="pink">♥</font>]] 15:31, 2 March 2014 (EST) |
| :Any variations of the same special move share the same staleness slot. I guess it can be worth noting. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] Da Bess 15:35, 2 March 2014 (EST)
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| :[[Shulk_(SSB4)|Shulk]]'s [[Vision]] is a good example of stale-move negation on special moves: Initially, it has a longest counter window in the game when it's fresh and unused but the counter window becomes shorter if Vision is used frequently. [[Bayonetta_(SSB4)|Bayonetta]]'s Down+B Special, [[Witch Time]], is also subject to stale-move negation as the slowdown duration becomes shorter if it's used repeatedly.--[[User:Arima|Arima]] ([[User talk:Arima|talk]]) 05:20, 11 January 2016 (EST)
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| == Demo: ==
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| In the early access demo of the game, I came across this chunk of text in tips:
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| "Other: Repetition Effect - Using the same attack constantly will decrease its power. Add a little variety to your fighting and spice up your game!" Score[[Special:Contributions/ScoreCounter|C]]o[[User:ScoreCounter|u]]n[[User Talk:ScoreCounter|t]]er 06:47, 13 September 2014 (EDT)
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| ::Can we test and see if the game still uses a 9-slot system, and perhaps how much it changes for each slot?
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| ::[[User:Liggliluff|Liggliluff]] ([[User talk:Liggliluff|talk]]) 19:48, 22 September 2014 (EDT)
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| == Damage Multiplier ==
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| A table that shows the actual damage multiplier for each game makes far more sense than only showing how much the attack is being reduced by. No one is going to want to do the calculations by themselves, especially for ''Smash 4'' where the numbers are accurate to 5 decimal places. Leave it if you want, just know that I absolutely loathe how it looked before. [[User:Smashgold347238|<span style="color:#D4AF37">Gold</span>]] [[file:Goldsig.png|20px|link=User talk:Smashgold347238]] 17:56, 13 June 2016 (EDT)
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| :The "actual damage multiplier"s that you inserted only function when considering the very specific case of "using the same move repeatedly with no other moves in between". If someone wants to know how weak a move would be in cases like "used move A ten times, then move B five times, and now move A", or "alternating between moves A and B", those numbers don't work. I agree it's not ideal, but as long as we have an example and the max possible stale value in the text, I think it's fine. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Riotous 18:52, 13 June 2016 (EDT)
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| == Jabs affected differently? ==
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| So I was doing some testing (as always) and i found that the damage output of some Jabs appear to be reduced less than they should. I don't know how this works (as I can only test things, not inspect code), but it seems as though they are affected differently. Could someone maybe look into it? [[User:Alex Parpotta|Alex Parpotta]] ([[User talk:Alex Parpotta|talk]]) 17:07, 13 January 2017 (EST)
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| == Smash 4 formula - decimals or rounded fractions? ==
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| The Melee and Brawl formulas are straightforward enough, but I find it hard to believe that Sakurai and co. deliberately coded in values with four significant digits for Smash 4. It seems a lot more likely that the values are supposed to be fractions of some sort (e.g. 10/128, 9/128, 8/128, etc.) that were rounded when they were placed in the table. The page edit that added this row to the table doesn't cite a source either. Now that the game's been out for quite a while, can anyone back up Smash 4's numbers with datamined info or anything like that? (The above fractions are made-up examples and don't actually evaluate to anything in the table - but they're the sort of numbers I'd expect to have been the real ones programmed into the game.) [[User:Zowayix|Zowayix]] ([[User talk:Zowayix|talk]]) 22:02, 3 April 2017 (EDT)
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| :Also just found this SmashBoards page here (https://smashboards.com/threads/mechanics-techniques-discussion.368206/page-62#post-20693883) that lists different numbers for queue positions 2 - 9. Which set of numbers is the right one? [[User:Zowayix|Zowayix]] ([[User talk:Zowayix|talk]]) 22:09, 3 April 2017 (EDT)
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| The staleness queue reduction values are written using floating point values, so they are just decimals. The values listed on the article here are correct, and they can be found within fighter_param_etc.bin (group 3). There's a large online spreadsheet of the datamined values (the owner of the spreadsheet is the same person who posted that Smashboards post; surely when he wrote that, it was an estimation) located [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FgOsGYfTD4nQo4jFGJ22nz5baU1xihT5lreNinY5nNQ/edit?usp=sharing Here]. I might add this citation myself soon enough, but if anyone gets to it before me then by all means go ahead.--[[User:Ben Hall|Ben Hall]] ([[User talk:Ben Hall|talk]]) 15:53, 6 September 2017 (EDT)
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| == Broken links ==
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| We need to keep a look out for broken links to this page written as <nowiki>[[stale move]]s</nowiki>, as apparently the admin that removed the redirect page "Stale moves" didn't notice that "Stale move" is not a page. [[User:Alex Parpotta|Alex Parpotta]] ([[User talk:Alex Parpotta|talk]]) 16:27, 2 June 2017 (EDT)
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| :I've taken care of it. You can catch stuff like this by going to a page and clicking "what links here", even if the page has been deleted. [[File:Zyrac sig.png]] <font face="Lucida Console">[[User:Zyrac|<font color="green">'''Zyrac'''</font>]]<small>([[User talk:Zyrac|<font color="green">talk</font>]]•[[Special:Contributions/Zyrac|<font color="green">contribs</font>]])</small></font> 16:41, 2 June 2017 (EDT)
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| == Potential reasoning for the specific numbers in Sm4sh and Ultimate ==
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| I was initially looking for an easier way to remember the specific factors for ''Ultimate'' (...I don't know why anymore), so I calculated the differences between successive factors in the table (SSB4 is here for similarity):
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| {| class="wikitable"
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| ! Queue position !! 1 !! 2 !! 3 !! 4 !! 5 !! 6 !! 7 !! 8 !! 9 !! 1-9 diff.
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| | ''Ultimate'' || 0.09 || 0.08545 || 0.07635 || 0.0679 || 0.05945 || 0.05035 || 0.04255 || 0.03345 || 0.025 || 0.065
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| | ''Ultimate'' diffs. || 0.00455 || 0.0091 || 0.00845 || 0.00845 || 0.0091 || 0.0078 || 0.0091 || 0.00845 || -- || --
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| | ''SSB4'' || 0.08 || 0.07594 || 0.06782 || 0.06028 || 0.05274 || 0.04462 || 0.03766 || 0.02954 || 0.022 || 0.058
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| | ''SSB4'' diffs. || 0.00406 || 0.00812 || 0.00754 || 0.00754 || 0.00812 || 0.00696 || 0.00812 || 0.00754 || -- || --
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| |}
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| Now, it turns out that all of the differences are whole percentages of the difference between the 1st and 9th positions (I initially noticed this because 78, 91, and 455 are all somewhat common multiples (6, 7, and 35) of 13):
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| * 0.065 × 0.07 = 0.00455
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| * 0.058 × 0.07 = 0.00406
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| * 0.065 × 0.14 = 0.0091
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| * 0.058 × 0.14 = 0.00812
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| * 0.065 × 0.13 = 0.00845
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| * 0.058 × 0.13 = 0.00754
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| * 0.065 × 0.12 = 0.0078
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| * 0.058 × 0.12 = 0.00696
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| (The differences between the same positions are also the same percentages of the total in both ''SSB4'' and ''Ultimate''.) I have no idea if this can somehow be added to the article, or how it would be worded, but ... at the very least, it should probably be written here. At least it sort of makes sense why these very specific numbers were used now. [[User:Volleo6144|Volleo6144]] ([[User talk:Volleo6144|talk]]) 20:12, April 10, 2020 (EDT)
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