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| Which series should the soccer ball use? "Other" or "''Mario''"? The Soccer Ball is stated to be based on the one from ''Super Mario Strikers''. It is also listed as part of the ''Mario'' series in its trophies. Although the Viruses and Dr. Mario are listed as "Other" in ''Brawl'', they are listed as "''Mario''" as Spirits. Also, Pauline uses the ''Donkey Kong'' symbol and Kamek uses the ''Yoshi'' symbol because that is what their trophies were originally categorized as despite the series change with their Spirits. Yes, Kamek is a ''Mario'' character, but is(Wiki)/was(''Ultimate'') a Yoshi character in ''Smash''. If an element that appears in ''Smash'' originally used the "Others" symbol, shouldn't an actual series symbol take priority if it receives it, or is categorized at it, later? Wouldn't be like with Little Mac and Nintendog who were originally classified as "other" in ''Brawl'', but now use their own symbol? [[User:Wolff| Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 14:04, May 29, 2019 (EDT) | | Which series should the soccer ball use? "Other" or "''Mario''"? The Soccer Ball is stated to be based on the one from ''Super Mario Strikers''. It is also listed as part of the ''Mario'' series in its trophies. Although the Viruses and Dr. Mario are listed as "Other" in ''Brawl'', they are listed as "''Mario''" as Spirits. Also, Pauline uses the ''Donkey Kong'' symbol and Kamek uses the ''Yoshi'' symbol because that is what their trophies were originally categorized as despite the series change with their Spirits. Yes, Kamek is a ''Mario'' character, but is(Wiki)/was(''Ultimate'') a Yoshi character in ''Smash''. If an element that appears in ''Smash'' originally used the "Others" symbol, shouldn't an actual series symbol take priority if it receives it, or is categorized at it, later? Wouldn't be like with Little Mac and Nintendog who were originally classified as "other" in ''Brawl'', but now use their own symbol? [[User:Wolff| Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 14:04, May 29, 2019 (EDT) |
| :As you said, whether it's the trophy or something categorization is not standard in ''Smash'', they may change frequently, so I think use the origin universe is the most stable approach. I have no objection to using classification criteria of ''Smash'', but should be based on the same criterion. If we take the latest Smash as the criterion, Pauline and Kamek should belong to the Mario universe. If we take the origin universe as criterion, Soccer Ball should belong to other universes. --[[User:Capstalker|Capstalker]] ([[User talk:Capstalker|talk]]) 02:15, May 30, 2019 (EDT) | | :As you said, whether it's the trophy or something categorization is not standard in ''Smash'', they may change frequently, so I think use the origin universe is the most stable approach. I have no objection to using classification criteria of ''Smash'', but should be based on the same criterion. If we take the latest Smash as the criterion, Pauline and Kamek should belong to the Mario universe. If we take the origin universe as criterion, Soccer Ball should belong to other universes. --[[User:Capstalker|Capstalker]] ([[User talk:Capstalker|talk]]) 02:15, May 30, 2019 (EDT) |
| ::I thought they used the symbol from the series they came from is they came from one with a symbol? Isn’t others just ones that don’t have a symbol in any way shape or form? If it is considered part of the Mario series, why not use the Mario symbol? The other 2 characters sound like unique situations to me. What do you say about the Fly Swatter assistant trophy then? [[Special:Contributions/172.58.175.190|172.58.175.190]] 02:59, May 30, 2019 (EDT) | | ::I thought they used the symbol from the series they cane from is they came from one with a symbol? Isn’t others just ones that don’t have a symbol in any way shape or form? If it is considered part of the Mario series, why not use the Mario symbol? The other 2 characters sound like unique situations to me. What do you say about the Fly Swatter assistant trophy then? [[Special:Contributions/172.58.175.190|172.58.175.190]] 02:59, May 30, 2019 (EDT) |
| :::Since it’s listed as part of the Mario series in the trophy lists, I think we should keep the Mario symbol. Plus, we should use the other symbol as sparingly ad possible if we’re not going to use the official one. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 03:03, May 30, 2019 (EDT)
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| ::::Agreed[[Special:Contributions/172.58.175.190|172.58.175.190]] 03:08, May 30, 2019 (EDT)
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| :::::What we be discussing is which universe this item should be divided into, not which symbol is better. If you think it should be classified according to trophies or something, I've given the counterexample, so this standard won't convince me, unless these pages are changed or there are other uniform standards.--[[User:Capstalker|Capstalker]] ([[User talk:Capstalker|talk]]) 03:43, May 30, 2019 (EDT)
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| ::::::I don’t see the soccer ball listed as an “other” or a Smash-Universe spirit either. The only other thing to list it as is real-life. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 04:01, May 30, 2019 (EDT)
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| :::::::The problem is not this, the Soccer Ball trophy wrote two series: ''Soccer'' and ''Mario Strikers''. What we are discussing is which universe it should belong to and determine symbol, real-life is out of the scope of discussion.--[[User:Capstalker|Capstalker]] ([[User talk:Capstalker|talk]]) 04:18, May 30, 2019 (EDT)--[[User:Capstalker|Capstalker]] ([[User talk:Capstalker|talk]]) 04:18, May 30, 2019 (EDT)
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| ::::::::Oh that was the problem. My bad for not understanding it. If that’s the case, it really depends on which series it gets sorted into. I believe Brawl has an option where you can sort trophies by series. If the Soccer Ball is listed with the Mario trophies, then keep it listed as part of the Mario series. If not, list it as part of the sports series and we’ll make a new pahge for that. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 04:48, May 30, 2019 (EDT)
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| :Another question is whether the criteria should be based ''Smash'', some characters are not fixed in different games, such as Viruses is divided into Mario series in SSBM or SSBU and "Other" in SSBB or SSB4, and Pauline and Kamek. So I think the origin universe should be the criterion rather than the Smash, if we should be based ''Smash'', we should also decide which one to use. Anyway, this requires a unified standard.--[[User:Capstalker|Capstalker]] ([[User talk:Capstalker|talk]]) 05:57, May 30, 2019 (EDT)
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| ::Is it because the item in question is somewhat generic, being a soccer ball? I admit I had found it strange that it was listed as from ''Super Mario Strikers'' in ''Brawl''. But it makes sense when taking its function into account when introduced as an item in ''Smash 4''. I think ''Soccer'' is there because it was the oldest Nintendo game that used a soccer ball, while ''Super Mario Strikers'' was the recent. I don't think using the ''Smash'' symbol makes sense. Maybe it would have if ''Super Mario Strikers'' was not listed as one of its origins. The Hammer, the Golden Hammer, Cloaking Device, Flipper, Parasol, Rocket Belt, Spring, Steel Diver, Super Scope, and Unira, are commonly thought to be ''Smash'' original items, but come from series listed in their trophies. The Barrel is listed as from ''Smash'', and the Beastball is listed as ''Smash'' as it is an item that does not have a series listed due to not having a collectable of it. Each ''Smash'' original item that had a collectable prior to ''Ultimate'' is listed as originating from one of the first four ''Smash'' games. That's why it does not make sense for the Soccer Ball to use the ''Smash'' symbol. In the case for the Viruses, they were originally listed as part of the ''Mario'' series before in ''Melee'' like you said. Even if they weren't, we probably would have still used the ''Mario'' symbol for them. Same case for Pauline and Kamek, and a similar case with the Miis. Their Spirits are listed as part of ''Smash'', but we list the [[Mii]] page with the ''Mii'' symbol. Using the "Others" symbol also does not make sense as it is listed as part of a serires that has a symbol. So if the Soccer Ball is listed as part of the ''Mario'' series, we should use the ''Mario'' symbol, shouldn't we? Or is there a problem with using the ''Mario'' symbol that I am just not seeing? [[User:Wolff| Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 13:21, May 30, 2019 (EDT)
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| :::We shouldn't use different standards for different pages. 1. The origin universe; 2. The latest ''Smash''; 3. The earliest ''Smash''; 4.Others.--[[User:Capstalker|Capstalker]] ([[User talk:Capstalker|talk]]) 00:59, May 31, 2019 (EDT)
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| ::::Thinking about it, we really can't use other trophies as examples as Soccer Ball is a separate case from the others since its the only one with two series listed. All others that do are ''Mario'' sub-series, of which the soccer ball happens to fall under. It belongs to one series with a symbol, and one that doesn't. I agree with 172.58.175.190. Others is just that, ones that don't have a series with a symbol present in ''Smash''. The Soccer Ball should use the ''Mario'' symbol. [[User:Wolff| Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 01:09, May 31, 2019 (EDT)
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| :::::The symbols on other pages are the origin universe and not based on trophies or anything, this logic seems simple. I don't understand why this page is controversial, is there any reason why specialstage symbol cannot be used?--[[User:Capstalker|Capstalker]] ([[User talk:Capstalker|talk]]) 08:07, May 31, 2019 (EDT)
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| ::::::Part of it is because I’m still against using an unofficial, unrelated symbol for things like this. If we’re using an unofficial one, we should use it as sparingly as possible. If it belongs to two series, one with a symbol and one without, the one with the symbol should take priority. After all, ingame uses either the ellipsis (which according to the admins, looks like jumbled and misplaced text if we zoom out the page, so that’s unfortunately off the table), or no symbol at all. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 10:45, May 31, 2019 (EDT)
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| :::::::I don't think it has anything to do with the symbol itself, we decide the symbol through the universe, not the contrary. As for the symbol, I always think ellipsis is better, but it has nothing to do.--[[User:Capstalker|Capstalker]] ([[User talk:Capstalker|talk]]) 12:20, May 31, 2019 (EDT)
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| ::::::::The universe the Soccer Ball belongs to is ''Mario'', as it pops up in the ''Mario'' section in ''Brawl''. Most likely because ''Super Mario Strikers'' is listed as one of its games of origin. [[User:Wolff| Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 00:38, June 3, 2019 (EDT)
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