Editing Talk:Sheik (SSB4)

==Recovery Nerf==

I'd say that this is a notable nerf, considering that from what I've seen Sheik can't use her chain to grab ledges anymore. I don't know why it'd be removed. (Even if Bouncing Fish helps a bit with recovering, it seems to be gimpable by simply touching her while she uses it) [[User:Laikue|Laikue]] ([[User talk:Laikue|talk]]) 12:33, 21 July 2014 (EDT)
:Tether recoveries are bad in Brawl because you can edgehog them. The new down B isn't as good as the Captain Jack recovery (transforming into Zelda for a higher double jump and to up B) but I think it's better than a tether.--<span style="background-color:#6d84e1;border:3px solid silver">[[User:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:silver">'''Brian'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:black">Don't try me!</span>]]</sup>[[File:Falco.gif|link=|27px]]</span> 14:11, 21 July 2014 (EDT)
::But, that's the point, Sheik's current recovery options are worse than her old ones, so shouldn't it be listed as a nerf on the page? Also due to the new edge mechanics a tether would help her recovery. [[User:Laikue|Laikue]] ([[User talk:Laikue|talk]]) 14:56, 21 July 2014 (EDT)
::Also, it seems I completely forgot to mention the recovery nerf I was initially complaining about was the removal of Zelda's Teleport. I'm just thought I typed that part out, but obviously I didn't.... [[User:Laikue|Laikue]] ([[User talk:Laikue|talk]]) 14:58, 21 July 2014 (EDT)

== Notable players ==

While I have contributed to the Sheik list for roughly 36% of the players on here, looking at the list now, this seems disproportionately huge for a game that hasn't even been out in North America for a full month. To put it in perspective, '''[[Meta_Knight_%28SSBB%29#Notable_players|this list is already more than half the size of the Meta Knight list from Brawl]]''', as well as being '''[[Fox_%28SSBM%29#Notable_players|roughly 41% of the size of the Fox list from Melee, including both active and inactive players]]'''. My suggestion would be to wait until after at least [[Apex 2015]] before having these sections on the character pages, regardless of whether Japan continues to get 150+ players for 3DS tournaments. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 15:27, 27 October 2014 (EDT)
:'''Oppose'''. There's no reason to wait; the players main the characters, and it's unlikely that they're going to change mains (in a major way; safe for a few players) by Apex 2015. Most smashers will, most likely, main the same characters at Apex 2015 as what they main now. <font face="AmericanTypewriter">[[User: Rtzxy|<span style="color:darkorange;">Rtzxy</span>]] [[File:SmashSig.jpeg]] [[User talk:Rtzxy|<span style="color:blue;">Smashing!</span>]]</font> 15:31, 27 October 2014 (EDT)
::Players like {{Sm|9B}} and {{Sm|RAIN}} have already switched their mains within this short time period. The metagame will also likely change when the Wii U version drops as well (better controls mean a lot), and I can guarantee you that there will be pro players that will switch mains due to this. In the end, players are still experimenting on the 3DS version. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 15:35, 27 October 2014 (EDT)
:::All right, good point. I'm now '''neutral, but leaning towards oppose'''. The pro-lists are going to be about the same sizes anyways by Apex 2015, some larger than others, and we can always just change the lists if a smasher changes mains, can't we? <font face="AmericanTypewriter">[[User: Rtzxy|<span style="color:darkorange;">Rtzxy</span>]] [[File:SmashSig.jpeg]] [[User talk:Rtzxy|<span style="color:blue;">Smashing!</span>]]</font> 15:49, 27 October 2014 (EDT)

:I intended to add preliminary lists that would obviously change up a lot in the future. Out of all the SSB4 notable players lists added so far, the only one that may be bloated is the one on Sheik's page, and only four others have five or more players listed (Rosalina, Diddy Kong, Greninja, Duck Hunt). Some of them may need to be trimmed down, but I don't see why they should be removed entirely. [[User:Scr7|<span style="color:#0000FF"">S</span><span style="color:#7F7FFF">c</span><span style="color:#00FFFF">r</span><span style="color:#FF7F00">7</span>]][[File:Scr7 sig.png|link=]]([[User talk:Scr7|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Scr7|contribs]]) 16:00, 27 October 2014 (EDT)
::While I'm not inherently saying that the players on the Sheik list aren't notable (although {{Sm|KoreanDJ}} is probably the most suspect person on there), like you said, the list is pretty bloated right now. Maybe instead of removing the lists entirely, though, we could hide them for now. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 16:08, 27 October 2014 (EDT)
:::The only thing we should wait until Apex 2015 for is a tier list. I say we keep them. Japan or not, it's still a tournament, nonetheless. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]] [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Gamer'''</span>]] 18:32, 27 October 2014 (EDT)
::::The problem with this is that we are still very early in the metagame, and for the most part, it seems as if we're searching for people to add to the lists. My current proposal now isn't necessarily to get rid of the lists, but to hide them for the time being. [http://nintendodojo.com/blogpost.aspx?id=157696 We've definitely hit some controversy on other sites] (OT also listed his thoughts on this as well, for what that's worth) about whether or not this is "too early" to have, and the Wii U version (or the "real version", as some people like to call it) of the game isn't even out yet. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 19:02, 27 October 2014 (EDT)

'''Completely wipe these sections for Smash 4 characters''': What is the purpose of the "notable players" sections? '''To show the players that made ''historic contributions'' to that character's metagame'''. Down the road, would ''any'' of these players be considered historically important just for a few 3DS tournies they enter immediately after launch? '''No'''. Did you all adding to these sections not even consider the fact that the Wii U version isn't out yet? You know, the version '''Smash 4 competitive play will be entirely centered around?''' Also did you consider the fact that '''half of these players or more will end up dropping these characters soon'''? Hell, even the '''''players themselves'' are baffled that they're being added to these sections already'''. 

At least wait until after Apex and Smash U is in full swing to start making these sections for Smash 4 characters. Calling players historically notable for a few 3DS tournies less than a month after launch is absolutely ridiculous and waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy jumping the gun. These sections can remain empty for now, they are '''absolutely not to be filled just for the sake of being full'''. Many times I had to yell at people to stop adding big name players who sandbagged with the character once and some barely-known-in-his-own-region players to these sections of low tier characters just to "fill them". The same thing applies here. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 02:11, 28 October 2014 (EDT)

== Changes from ''Brawl'' ==

How come in the changes from Brawl section, it says the changes ''after'' the game updates? See this:
*{{nerf|All aerials (except [[neutral aerial]]'s sourspot) deal less damage (Neutral aerial 13%/10% → 8%/7%, forward aerial 9% → 5%/4.3%, back aerial 12%/11% → 8%/7%, up aerial 11% → 7%, and down aerial 10% → 8%).}}
Fair's damage should say 6.8/6%, U-air's 8%, Bair isn't even nerfed until patches (I'm not sure), Nair and Dair are correct (they aren't changed in updates). 
After looking at pages I noticed many other pages do this.

[[Diddy Kong (SSB4)|Diddy's page]] doesn't do this correctly. Is this correct and is how it is to be displayed on SmashWiki or is it not to display the changes after the patches? -- [[User:Ethan7|Ethan7]] ([[User talk:Ethan7|talk]]) 12:56, 3 December 2015 (EST)
:I don't quite understand all of what you're saying, but if you're saying if there are patch changes in the standalone release changes section, then yes, someone needs to move those notes into the proper part of the article. [[User:15DollarsWentSouth|15DollarsWentSouth]] ([[User talk:15DollarsWentSouth|talk]]) 11:58, 4 December 2015 (EST)
::Okay, so we '''do''' show the changes between Brawl (or Melee and even the difference between a clone in some cases) and the release of SSB4 and '''not''' between Brawl and the latest revision of SSB4. Thanks! -- [[User:Ethan7|Ethan7]] ([[User talk:Ethan7|talk]]) 12:27, 4 December 2015 (EST)

==Sheik is not canonically a girl==
...and what are we to care what the Smash game's in-game descriptors say on a character's ambiguous gender? If the Smash games were to tell us Bayonetta and Peach identify as males we might still reject that because of how blatantly obvious it is. I myself think Sheik is a male but because this isn't (presumably) a retrogressive wiki that insists their characters' have a gender I changed the pronouns to neutral. It's better than going off of what the localizers tell us. The gender has to change to neutral descriptors to fit cannon. —[[User: Tiers_nonexistent|<font color="Magenta">S+ Tier</font>]] ([[User talk: Tiers_nonexistent|<font color="Purple">List</font>]]) <font color="Aqua">|</font> [[File:Isohunt.jpg|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Tiers_nonexistent|Look what I've done!!!]] 23:41, 7 May 2017 (EDT)
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 ==Sheik is not canonically a girl==
-...and what are we to care what the Smash game's in-game descriptors say on a character's ambiguous gender? If the Smash games were to tell us Bayonetta and Peach identify as males we might still reject that because of how blatantly false that is. I myself think Sheik is a male but because this isn't (presumably) a retrogressive wiki that insists their characters' have a gender I changed the pronouns to neutral. It's better than going off of what the localizers tell us. The gender has to change to neutral descriptors to fit cannon. —[[User: Tiers_nonexistent|<font color="Magenta">S+ Tier</font>]] ([[User talk: Tiers_nonexistent|<font color="Purple">List</font>]]) <font color="Aqua">|</font> [[File:Isohunt.jpg|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Tiers_nonexistent|Look what I've done!!!]] 23:41, 7 May 2017 (EDT)
+...and what are we to care what the Smash game's in-game descriptors say on a character's ambiguous gender? If the Smash games were to tell us Bayonetta and Peach identify as males we might still reject that because of how blatantly obvious it is. I myself think Sheik is a male but because this isn't (presumably) a retrogressive wiki that insists their characters' have a gender I changed the pronouns to neutral. It's better than going off of what the localizers tell us. The gender has to change to neutral descriptors to fit cannon. —[[User: Tiers_nonexistent|<font color="Magenta">S+ Tier</font>]] ([[User talk: Tiers_nonexistent|<font color="Purple">List</font>]]) <font color="Aqua">|</font> [[File:Isohunt.jpg|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Tiers_nonexistent|Look what I've done!!!]] 23:41, 7 May 2017 (EDT)
-:Read your talk page. --[[File:BeepYouSignature.png|40px]] [[User:BeepYou|<font color="Black">'''Beep'''</font>]] [[User talk:BeepYou|<font color="Black">'''(talk)'''</font>]] 23:47, 7 May 2017 (EDT)
-== Does this still need to be protected? ==
-Since the user is blocked, and it was blocked for edit wars, can the protection be removed? [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 01:47, 8 May 2017 (EDT)
-:Thank you Disaster Flare. [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 01:53, 8 May 2017 (EDT)
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