Editing Talk:Ryu (SSB4)

I'll ask it here for lack of a better place. The discussion I'm seeing around the leaked videos (and the absence of any other gameplay footage of Roy and Ryu) suggests that the characters themselves aren't in the released-early-by-mistake 1.0.8, only these videos (as the music files were in 1.0.6 on 3DS). Can we get any confirmation of this? [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 05:39, 13 June 2015 (EDT)

:I can't say for sure, but the discussion [http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1443536&p=47945203&viewfull=1#post47945203 here] and [https://twitter.com/RandomTBush the Twitter account of one of its participants] makes it clear that the leak consists of a lot more than just the videos and at least includes crowd chants, announcer calls and Kirby voices as well.  He's probably the guy to ask for confirmation of how much actual character data is in there. --[[Special:Contributions/124.176.24.183|124.176.24.183]] 06:20, 13 June 2015 (EDT)
::Well those audio clips sure as hell sound legitimate as well. Hopefully RTB backs himself up with more evidence on the other things he's posting on his twitter. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 06:25, 13 June 2015 (EDT)

:::[http://kykiske.tumblr.com/post/121417210755/x here's some stuff] [[Special:Contributions/99.241.174.148|99.241.174.148]] 06:46, 13 June 2015 (EDT)

::::Final Smash is '''Shin Shoryuken'''. <span style="border:3px solid #black; background: black; border-radius:1em 1em 1em 1em;">[[File:Amiibae signature image.png|20px]][[User:Amiibae|<span style="color: #fff">Luke</span>]] <span style="color: #fff">•</span> [[User talk:Amiibae|<span style="color: #fff">Talk</span>]]<span style="color: black>:::</span></span> 07:11, 13 June 2015 (EDT)
:::::See my talk page. If it's RTB's info backed up by audio or image, that's legitimate. If he posts one of those to confirm this, I'll add it. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 07:15, 13 June 2015 (EDT)

:::::Kirby has a voice clip saying "Hadouken", so I think we can confirm Ryu's Neutral B. --[[User:ComJacker|ComJay]] ([[User talk:ComJacker|talk]]) 09:11, 13 June 2015 (EDT)

== Taunt? ==

In the next-to-last clip of the Classic/All-Star clear video (counting the still image as a clip), Ryu seems to do a taunt with Link and Little Mac where he outstretches his fist. [[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: lime">'''Nyargle'''</span><span style="color: orange">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Nyargleblargle|Talk]]) 12:26, 13 June 2015 (EDT)
:I was linked to a bunch of sound clips for both Roy and Ryu; one of them definitely sounds fitting for that thing you're talking about. [[File:Aidanzapunksignature.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Master of Speed and Aura'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 12:28, 13 June 2015 (EDT)

==Trivia==

Just by eyeballing his Classic trophy and his render, one could easily imagine spinning it 75 to 90 degrees clockwise and matching it to the pose in Ryu's select art in Street Fighter IV. [[Special:Contributions/124.170.4.51|124.170.4.51]] 13:46, 13 June 2015 (EDT)

== Ryu's Final Smash ==

Apparently, Ryu has (technically speaking) two Final Smashes; it just varies depending on how far away Ryu is. Which would explain why there's two different voice clips for his Final Smash: one is for Shinku Shoryuken, and the others are for Shin Shoryuken. [[File:Aidanzapunksignature.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Master of Speed and Aura'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 16:45, 13 June 2015 (EDT)
:Yeah, I was just about to make a note about this. I'm trying to figure out what to do with the page name for Ryu's FS for now. If it were going to be longer than one day until we found out officially, I would say we should go for the generic "Ryu's Final Smash" title, but at this point all the evidence says we can just get the Wii U FS trophy in <24 hours so I'm not gonna worry about that too much. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 16:48, 13 June 2015 (EDT)
::If this wiki wasn't so critical about accuracy, I'd personally go with Shinko Hadouken, because most of the time, it's going to do that. [[File:Aidanzapunksignature.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Master of Speed and Aura'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 16:50, 13 June 2015 (EDT)
:::Subjective, that assumes players are usually playing matches with a lot of open space between them and opponents. People tend to forget that some game design decisions are made at least in part with 8-player FFas with items on in mind. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 16:52, 13 June 2015 (EDT)
::::Here's what I would do: the Wii U trophy will have the definitive name, but the other name should at least be made into a redirect. [[File:Aidanzapunksignature.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Master of Speed and Aura'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 16:53, 13 June 2015 (EDT)
:::::Absolutely. The Wii U trophy name will determine the page name, but the other will be a redirect and the page will discuss both. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 16:55, 13 June 2015 (EDT)
::::::His Final Smash trophy shows Shin Shoryuken. [[User:Awesomelink234|Awes]]o[[User_talk:Awesomelink234|melink234]] PK FLASHBOMB! 22:32, 13 June 2015 (EDT)
::::::: Shut up everyone! Add 2 unique Final Smash slots because Ryu has two Final Smashes!!! [[User:The Smash Brotha|The Smash Brotha]] ([[User talk:The Smash Brotha|talk]]) 12:06, 15 June 2015 (EDT)
:::::::: That's not what we're talking about. [[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: lime">'''Nyargle'''</span><span style="color: orange">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Nyargleblargle|Talk]]) 12:21, 15 June 2015 (EDT)

== Livestream from Ryu, Roy and Lucas ==

Available here: http://www.twitch.tv/crediar --[[User:Wolfy76700|Wolfy76700]] ([[User talk:Wolfy76700|talk]]) 17:37, 13 June 2015 (EDT)

== Colors and Music Arrangement ==
All of Ryus Colors Originate from the classic SF2 games (Specifically Super Turbo). As for the Music it takes cues from Hyper Street Fighter 2 (a game that let you pit ANY SF2 iteration of a character against one another) having CPS 1, 2, and Remixed Music Options for stages.--[[User:ToastyDMY|ToastyDMY]] ([[User talk:ToastyDMY|talk]]) 22:22, 13 June 2015 (EDT)

== So... ==

I found [http://shoryuken.com/2015/06/14/traditional-street-fighter-inputs-alter-ryus-moves-in-super-smash-bros-4/ this], but I don't know how to put it into the page...anyone wanna take a crack at it? [[File:Aidanzapunksignature.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Master of Speed and Aura'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 10:13, 14 June 2015 (EDT)

== Voice Actor ==

Should we add that his Voice Actor is Kyle Hebert? We mention voice actors on other pages, and since the page is semi-protected I can't add it as of right now. [[User:Gpev96|Gpev96 (SHAZAM!)]] ([[User talk:Gpev96|talk]]) 11:30, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
:The first person to screenshot the credits showing him (and Fukuyama for Roy) for DLC voice credits wins 10 wikipoints. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 11:37, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
::Going for them points[[User:Gpev96|Gpev96 (SHAZAM!)]] ([[User talk:Gpev96|talk]]) 12:00, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
:::I don't know how to screen cap it, but I know for a fact I saw Kyle Hebert pass by on the DLC thing. I didn't download Roy, though, because I honestly don't care for him. [[File:Aidanzapunksignature.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Master of Speed and Aura'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 15:46, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
:::Roy is a lot better than I thought he would be, he's very fun to play, and he really feels a good bit different from Marth this time around [[User:Gpev96|Gpev96 (SHAZAM!)]] ([[User talk:Gpev96|talk]]) 13:07, 16 June 2015 (EDT)

== Air Friction ==

I've noticed that Ryu doesn't slow down in the air when you release left or right after reaching maximum air speed. I suppose this could be in reference to the fact that jumping in the Street Fighter games retains the jump arc, or something. Is this worth mentioning on the page? [[User:FirstaLasto|<font color="pink">♡</font>'''Firsta'''Lasto<font color="pink">♥</font>]] 01:46, 15 June 2015 (EDT)

== Punch-Out and the fighting genre ==

Punch-Out being a conceptual game about fighting doesn't make it a fighting game. From a game design perspective, it is very different from the common definition of a fighting game.

Traits of a fighting game:
* Characters fight each other one on one
* Goal is to deplete the other person's HP
* After each round, the battle starts over again. Round ends when HP is depleted.
* Characters can move freely along an axis
* Emphasis on precision, different move types and multiple button combinations,
* Characters are intricate and have a wide variety of different moves and other such options, leading to a rich metagame. AI opponents are very complex.

Punch-Out:
* Player controls one, pre-determined character
* Single-player only (except Wii game which does have a two-player mode, although bound to the restrictions below)
* Structure is meant to simulate a boxing match (e.g. intermission once time runs out, TKOs, knockouts).
* Except for a TKO, victory is random as opponents may or may not get up when they are knocked out
* Linear in nature
* Little Mac has five moves: high punch (right/left), low punch (right/left), star punch. Also cannot jump, and motion is limited entirely to blocks and dodges.
* AI is simple, contains only a few preset patterns. Moves are telegraphed with the expectation that the player picks up the patterns and can time themselves properly. Because of that, it can actually be argued that Punch-Out is a puzzle or even a rhythm game. Once an opponent's moves are memorized, they can be defeated easily with simple timing. Typical fighting games are nowhere near as predictable.

Smash Bros. too is different from Street Fighter, Tekken, et all, but its focus on rounds, combos, and free movement makes it clear that it's just a spin on the formula. Metroid contains shooting, but it's not a shooting game. Zelda is sometimes argued to be a role-playing game, but its overall playstyle is too different to lump it with Dragon Quest or Phantasy Star. A game's genre is not determined by its concept, but by its design, and by design, Punch-Out is far removed from other fighting games. At the very least, I have to ask was it really too much to say Ryu is the first character from a traditional 2D fighting game game? The problem I have is that Punch-Out's status as a fighting game is debateable, whereas Ryu's status as the first character from a 2D fighter isn't. --[[User:NinjaCoachZ|NinjaCoachZ]] ([[User talk:NinjaCoachZ|talk]]) 20:42, 16 June 2015 (EDT)
:We aren't presenting it by how it's designed; we're presenting it as ''a game about fighting'', which Punch-Out!! is, no matter how different it is from normal fighting games. We never called it part of the "fighting genre", because it isn't. But it ''is'' a fighting game. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:Nutta Butta|Nutta.]] </small>  20:53, 16 June 2015 (EDT)
::If we were saying, "Little Mac is the first Smash Bros. character from a game about physical combat", I wouldn't have a problem with that. The problem is that calling it a "fighting game" in those exact terms is misleading and creates the insinuation that the wiki is treating it as part of the fighting genre. --[[User:NinjaCoachZ|NinjaCoachZ]] ([[User talk:NinjaCoachZ|talk]]) 21:04, 16 June 2015 (EDT)
:::It's been there basically since Little Mac was confirmed (well, obviously not on Ryu's page, but on Mac's), so clearly you're basically the only person who thinks it's such a big deal. I never once felt misled, and still don't. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:Nutta Butta|Nutta.]] </small>  21:07, 16 June 2015 (EDT)
::::I'm trying to bring up a genuine concern in the article and it's honestly a bit discouraging to be dismissed just because nobody else mentioned it before me. How do you know there aren't other readers who were confused by it? --[[User:NinjaCoachZ|NinjaCoachZ]] ([[User talk:NinjaCoachZ|talk]]) 21:13, 16 June 2015 (EDT)

== Button Press Detection ==

The tapped/held execution scheme is based off of Super Street Fighter II Turbo Revival, released on October 30, 2001 for the Game Boy Advanced. Mentioning this fact, it did give me pause to pose this question: how does SSB4 determine between a tapped and a held? Is there a script in the game that handles the difference in button press length between a tapped execution and a held execution. The strength and damage of a neutrally executed Hadoken (press B/Special button only), for example, is determined by how long the button is pressed. In theory, if you hold the button long enough, you will make the Hadoken move faster. The question is, how long does the button have to be held for the held action to supersede the tapped action. [[User:No1wammy|No1wammy]] ([[User talk:No1wammy|talk]]) 02:55, 19 June 2015 (EDT)
::The detection script possibly has some sort of border value, which is likely to be measured in milliseconds. Tapped meaning lower than this value and held meaning higher. I guess it's a bit difficult to measure it precisely without the proper tools, since it's quite shorter than most people are used to. And actually, this method is way older than SSFII Turbo Revival. Traditional fighting games for the original Game Boy and Game Gear, like Street Fighter and Fatal Fury, already had this implemented, to make up for the lack of button input. [[User:Wrilliam|Wrilliam]] ([[User talk:Wrilliam|talk]]) 21:13, 19 June 2015 (EDT)
::::I did not know that. I was reading the Trivia section and noticed that tidbit, so just to be sure, I skimmed at an archived FAQ at GameFaqs.com. Yep, it's confirmed. It would be a good idea to look into Ryu's button mechanics a little closer. Is there a chance an article may be written on this unique technique?
::::Another thing to look into is button buffering. It works akin to the Shadow Moves execution in Killer Instinct: charge any button, perform the motion, release after you complete the motion. This was a practice seen starting in Street Fighter II, and then "exploited," if you will, on the SFII's Rainbow hack (arcade only release). Could it be possible to charge the attack or special button, execute the desired motion, then release to perform a buffered Hadoken, Shakunetsu Hadoken, Shoryuken or Tatsumaki Senpuu Kyaku? [[User:No1wammy|No1wammy]] ([[User talk:No1wammy|talk]]) 22:11, 19 June 2015 (EDT)

== Japanese translation of his quotes ==

Here are Ryu's quotes from the Japanese version.

Taunts
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! English !! Japanese
|-
| "Come on!" || "{{ja|かかってこい！|Kakattekoi!}}", "''Come on!''"
|-
| "Talk is cheap!" || "{{ja|拳で語り合おう！|Kobushi de katariaou!}}", "''Let your fists talk.''"
|}

Victory poses
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! English !! Japanese
|-
| "The journey has just begun." || "{{ja|旅はまだ 始まったばかりだ|Tabi wa mada hajimatta bakari da.}}", "''The journey has just begun.''"
|-
| "Give it your all!" || "{{ja|必殺のタイミングを計れ！|Hissatsu no taimingu wo hakare!}}", "''Measure the timing of your special moves!''"
|-
| "Your range is one fist short." || "{{ja|その間合いじゃ 拳半分届かない！|Sono maai ja kobushi hanbun todokanai!}}", "''That range doesn't reach half a fist!''"
|} [[User:Wrilliam|Wrilliam]] ([[User talk:Wrilliam|talk]]) 09:33, 19 June 2015 (EDT)

== Ryu not having a green palette ==

I recently added that Ryu was among Pac-Man and Shulk for not having a green palette on both of their trivia pages, only to have them undone on both accounts. I think it's yellow (albeit a dark yellow), and the palette indicator for Ryu's seventh color also indicates this. Nonetheless, I must ask, what do you all think? Is it yellow or is it green? [[User:15DollarsWentSouth|15DollarsWentSouth]] ([[User talk:15DollarsWentSouth|talk]]) 01:00, 31 August 2015 (EDT)
:Well, I'd like to think that it's yellow, but since there are people that are undoing it constantly, I wonder if Shulk and Pac-Man should have this tidbit excluded from their trivia pages also. [[Special:Contributions/206.131.130.134|206.131.130.134]] 09:48, 28 October 2015 (EDT)
::Yes, it is a dark yellow, Aidan checked using pxlr. However, it is not notable. [[file:INoMedssig.png|20px]] <span style="text-shadow:0px 0px 3px red"><font face="Times New Roman">[[User:INoMed|<font color="red">'''INoMed'''</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:INoMed|<font color="red">'''''(Talk • '''''</font>]][[User:INoMed/Contribs|<font color="red">'''''Contribs)'''''</font>]]</sup></font></span> 09:50, 28 October 2015 (EDT)
:::The color comes out as #d9d95b, according to Pixlr (which, also according to Pixlr, is a shade of yellow). [[File:Aidanzapunksignature.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: black;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: orange">'''Master of Speed and Aura'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 09:52, 28 October 2015 (EDT)
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 ::Yes, it is a dark yellow, Aidan checked using pxlr. However, it is not notable. [[file:INoMedssig.png|20px]] <span style="text-shadow:0px 0px 3px red"><font face="Times New Roman">[[User:INoMed|<font color="red">'''INoMed'''</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:INoMed|<font color="red">'''''(Talk • '''''</font>]][[User:INoMed/Contribs|<font color="red">'''''Contribs)'''''</font>]]</sup></font></span> 09:50, 28 October 2015 (EDT)
 :::The color comes out as #d9d95b, according to Pixlr (which, also according to Pixlr, is a shade of yellow). [[File:Aidanzapunksignature.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: black;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: orange">'''Master of Speed and Aura'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 09:52, 28 October 2015 (EDT)
-::::And as I know hex quite well, R+G=Y. R+Y=O. R+B=P. [[file:INoMedssig.png|20px]] <span style="text-shadow:0px 0px 3px red"><font face="Times New Roman">[[User:INoMed|<font color="red">'''INoMed'''</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:INoMed|<font color="red">'''''(Talk • '''''</font>]][[User:INoMed/Contribs|<font color="red">'''''Contribs)'''''</font>]]</sup></font></span> 09:55, 28 October 2015 (EDT)
-:I made a point [[User_talk:DekZek#Ryu's yellow-green costume|here]] that people should read. We can settle this without turning it into a problem, I think. <b>[[User:john3637881|<span style="color: black;">John</span>]]</b> [[File:John3637881 Signature.png|20px]] <b>[[User talk:John3637881|<span style="color: red;">PK SMAAAASH!!</span>]]</b> 10:46, 28 October 2015 (EDT)
-== Contradiction ==
-So the trivia states that the website uses "{{ja|参戦！！}}" for a newcomer normally. However, [[:File:HERE COMES A NEW CHALLENGER!.png|the image shown says otherwise]]. Sooooo... [[File:AidanzapunkSig1.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Wandering Space Warrior'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSig2.png|20px]] 08:55, 2 February 2016 (EST)
-:Appears to be correct, actually. The first two Japanese characters in the image are Roy's name. [[File:Zyrac sig.png]] <font face="Lucida Console">[[User:Zyrac|<font color="green">'''Zyrac'''</font>]]<small>([[User talk:Zyrac|<font color="green">talk</font>]]•[[Special:Contributions/Zyrac|<font color="green">contribs</font>]])</small></font> 09:02, 2 February 2016 (EST)
-::Ah. ...Silly me. [[File:AidanzapunkSig1.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Wandering Space Warrior'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSig2.png|20px]] 09:03, 2 February 2016 (EST)
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