Editing Talk:Rufio

I do believe that this combo is well used with Meta Knight but if it doesn't have a proper name, we could mention it on his character pages or in his moveset subpages. [[User:Dots|<font color="red">'''D'''</font><font color="green">'''o'''</font><font color="blue">'''t'''</font><font color="purple">'''s'''</font>]] ([[User talk:Dots|talk]]) [[File:Mega Man X SNES sprite.png|19px]] The Jiggly 14:17, 26 December 2015 (EST)
:[https://youtu.be/Yq7GAhaoK4k?t=9m16s Found one.] [[User:Drill Blaster Mark 2|<font color="Brown">'''Drill Blaster'''</font> <font color="Pink">'''Mark'''</font> <font color="Silver">'''2'''</font>]] ''[[User talk:Drill Blaster Mark 2|<font color="Purple">(talk)</font>]]'' 14:31, 26 December 2015 (EST)
::<s>Bump, and '''''Strong Support''''' for deletion. It doesn't need this much detail. </s>[[Special:Contributions/98.157.202.185|98.157.202.185]] 15:05, 30 December 2015 (EST)
:::<s>'''Support''' Definitely deserves a mention on MK's pages, but I don't think it's notable enough to warrant its own page.</s> [[User:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:Green; text-shadow: 0px 0px 3px green">'''Disaster'''</span> <span style="color:Blue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px blue">'''Flare'''</span>]] [[File:Disaster Flare signature image.png|20px]] ''[[User talk:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:SkyBlue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px skyblue">(talk)</span>]]'' 15:07, 30 December 2015 (EST)
::::'''Slight opposition''' I definitely agree with DF and anon, but let's not forget [[Greenhouse|these]] [[Stairway to Heaven|two]]. Yes, I know they're ''Smash 64'', but just because this one's ''Brawl'' doesn't make it any less important. [[User:Drill Blaster Mark 2|<font color="Brown">'''Drill Blaster'''</font> <font color="Pink">'''Mark'''</font> <font color="Silver">'''2'''</font>]] ''[[User talk:Drill Blaster Mark 2|<font color="Purple">(talk)</font>]]'' 15:19, 30 December 2015 (EST)
:::::The problem is unlike the two you mentioned, I've never even heard of this combo, which unfamiliarity in itself kinda hurts credibility. [[User:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:Green; text-shadow: 0px 0px 3px green">'''Disaster'''</span> <span style="color:Blue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px blue">'''Flare'''</span>]] [[File:Disaster Flare signature image.png|20px]] ''[[User talk:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:SkyBlue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px skyblue">(talk)</span>]]'' 15:20, 30 December 2015 (EST)
::::::Smashboards didn't have a lot on this subject as well. I'll stick to my opinion, but I'm aware it's only a matter before the page gets deleted. [[User:Drill Blaster Mark 2|<font color="Brown">'''Drill Blaster'''</font> <font color="Pink">'''Mark'''</font> <font color="Silver">'''2'''</font>]] ''[[User talk:Drill Blaster Mark 2|<font color="Purple">(talk)</font>]]'' 16:54, 30 December 2015 (EST)
:::::::'''Strong opposition''' This term is widely used between top players like ZeRo, Seibrik and Mew2King and this combo is very relevant in both games, as it's a core of Meta Knight's gameplay. Never hearing about the term is not a reason for deletion, actually Wiki pages are for people to learn things, like this term. There's absolutely no reason for deleting this page. [[User:Joaco|Joaco]] ([[User talk:Joaco|talk]]) 03:55, 31 December 2015 (EST)

I '''oppose''' per Joaco. Not knowing about something does not, in itself, warrant it's deletion. I was unaware of what this was, and after reading the article, I now know. It has a purpose and it should stay. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:12pt">[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">'''Serpent'''</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;">'''King'''</span></span>]] 04:07, 31 December 2015 (EST)
:'''Oppose''' per SK and Joaco. [[File:Nyargleblargle.png|16px]][[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color:LawnGreen">'''Nyargle</span>]][[User talk:Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: orange;">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|Contribs]]) 09:05, 31 December 2015 (EST)
'''Oppose''' I heard this term before in Brawl, when I watched the stream in the past. It does exist in Smash 4. Like Joaco, never hearing about this term does not mean deletion. [[User:Luigi540|Luigi540]] ([[User talk:Luigi540|talk]]) 12:56, 31 December 2015 (EST)

'''oppose''' yeah i heard of this combo before [[User:Nintendofan1653|<font color="red">'''Nintendofan1653'''</font>]] ''([[User talk:Nintendofan1653#top|<font color="blue">talk</font>]])'' the true north strong and free 13:26, 31 December 2015 (EST)

'''Oppose'''. The combo itself is still a fairly notable thing, regardless of its name. <b>[[User:john3637881|<span style="color: black;">John</span>]]</b> [[File:John3637881 Signature.png|20px]] <b>[[User talk:John3637881|<span style="color: red;">PK SMAAAASH!!</span>]]</b> 13:31, 31 December 2015 (EST)

'''Oppose''' Don't know if my response is appropriate since I created the page. Like Joaco said, wiki pages are for readers to learn things. This combo is central to Meta Knight's play style in both games; almost every notable Smash 4 Meta Knight main has pulled off the combo, including Ito, Leo, and Abadango, and others. Since it's arguably one of the more iconic combos, it deserves a page that details it.  <b>[[User:Dhiaalhanai|<span style="color: black;">Dhia</span>]]</b> 12:58 AM, 1 January 2016
:Changing my opinion to '''oppose'''. I still honestly think compared to other combos like the Greenhouse, it's not notable enough for a page, but the current results in itself prove that people want to keep it for a reason. [[User:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:Green; text-shadow: 0px 0px 3px green">'''Disaster'''</span> <span style="color:Blue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px blue">'''Flare'''</span>]] [[File:Disaster Flare signature image.png|20px]] ''[[User talk:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:SkyBlue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px skyblue">(talk)</span>]]'' 14:58, 1 January 2016 (EST)
:: I change to '''''Oppose''''' per DF. [[Special:Contributions/98.157.202.185|98.157.202.185]] 15:13, 1 January 2016 (EST)

== Discussion about the article's tone, name, and scope ==

Why is this article written in a way that hypes up MK's ladder combos in Brawl while downplaying them in Smash 4, when it was nearly MK's entire meta in 4 and we all know how minor non-chain grab combos were in Brawl, it looks like the writer saw "oh his Smash 4 uair is nerfed so his combos must be worse" without actually knowing anything about the context of the games. Watch some MK sets between the two games, and you'll rarely see MK actually pull off a successful ladder death combo in Brawl (I don't even think I got "rufio'd" before in my entire Brawl career), while you'll probably see it nearly every set in 4. I'll probably rewrite this myself at some point, but if someone else is up for it, I'll let them handle it.

Also needs information for Ult too, where it's about as important for MK as it was in 4, though they're more varied as often he'll end up "bridging" you to the sides and KOing you horizontally instead. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 19:18, February 24, 2021 (EST)

Also I'm not keen on calling this the "rufio", it's a term I seen before but it's not really all that common in the modern era, I see people just call MK's combos "ladders" and "bridges" a lot more often. In fact instead of making an article just for MK's ladders, maybe make an article that encompasses ladder combos in general, like Falco in Melee, Zamus in Smash 4, and Mario in both Smash 4 and Ultimate are pretty infamous for ladder combos too. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 19:27, February 24, 2021 (EST)
:I can't even say I've heard "bridge" before, only ladder. But it is weird that this would be downplayed for Smash 4, a game it's arguably more famous in. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: red;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: pink;">'''the Lovely Rurouni'''</span>]] 19:35, February 24, 2021 (EST)
::"Bridge" is a more recent term for the variant that KOs horizontally, but anyway I searched each term in the MK Discord, and "Rufio" only had 16 results (and "Roofio" got only 2), whereas "Ladder" gets 9560 results, "Ladder combo" gets 753, "Bridge" gets 2767, and "Bridge combo" gets 215. In any case, "Rufio" is definitely not the most prominent term here. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 20:20, February 24, 2021 (EST)

On moving the page, there is also another page dedicated to another specific ladder combo, Captain Falcon's [[Stairway to Heaven]]. While I support having a page for the general concept of ladder combos, it's not necessarily a bad idea to keep this page as is. --[[User:Rdrfc|Rdrfc]] ([[User talk:Rdrfc|talk]]) 07:02, February 25, 2021 (EST)
:I think that one too should be merged into a general ladder combo page, there's nothing really separating it from the rest other than a fancy name. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 08:48, February 25, 2021 (EST)

Bump. Also in case anyone thinks those search results for "ladder" and "bridge" in the MK discord were mostly false positives from being generic words, here are the results for them in some other random discords I checked for popular characters not known for ladder and bridge combos:

*Bowser: 462 for "ladder", 83 for "bridge"
*Joker: 434 for "ladder", 293 for "bridge"
*Link: 344 for "ladder", 297 for "bridge"
*Palutena: 823 for "ladder", 295 for "bridge"
*Snake: 325 for "ladder", 111 for "bridge"
*Marcina: 999 for "ladder", 488 for "bridge"
*Pikachu: 393 for "ladder", 2344 for "bridge" (as a character known for bridge combos but not ladders)
*Zero Suit Samus: 3851 for "ladder", 198 for "bridge" (as a character known for ladder combos but not bridges)

For these results, I think it's clear that it isn't a ton of false positives in the MK discord for those terms, and thus it's clear they are the dominant terms over "Rufio". <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 21:09, February 25, 2021 (EST)
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 For these results, I think it's clear that it isn't a ton of false positives in the MK discord for those terms, and thus it's clear they are the dominant terms over "Rufio". <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 21:09, February 25, 2021 (EST)
-Yet another bump. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 21:05, March 30, 2021 (EDT)
-Yeah, I'm late to the party, but since this still isn't resolved Imma throw my support in moving and revamping this page. I never heard the term "rufio" before, the article straight up mentions even the orgin  is unknown, but I hear "ladder combo" often. Most people will be able to figure out what "ladder combo" means while most who hear rufio will go what the heck.
-Also would be really helpful to have a page covering ladder combos in general, to make it easier to find and read up on ladder combos for characters besides MK. [[File:Ness EB Sprite.png|20px]] '''[[User:Omega Toad|<font color="blue">Omega Toad,</font>]] [[User talk:Omega Toad|<font color="gold">the EarthBoundian.</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Omega Toad|<font color="red">(Fuzzy pickles!)</font>]]''' 20:47, June 26, 2022 (EDT)
-Bumping this with a '''support'''. I agree with the idea of making a generic ladder combo page, and think much of these famous combos could be merged into it. This page as it stands basically repeats the same summary of information over and over again, it's kind of weird. --[[File:PlagueSigImage.png|20px]][[User:Plague von Karma|<span style="color: #e68;">'''Plague'''</span>]][[User talk:Plague von Karma|<span style="color: #e68;">''' von Karma'''</span>]][[File:PlagueSigImage.png|20px]] 19:13, July 26, 2023 (EDT)
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