Editing Talk:Project M

This was also the name of the joint project between Nintendo, Team Ninja and D-Rockets to make Other M. Is that notable? --[[User:RoyboyX|<font color="red">'''Roy'''</font><font color="gray">'''boy'''</font><font color="darkred">'''X'''</font>]][[File:RoyHeadSSBM.png|20px]] [[User talk:RoyboyX|''<span style="color:brown;">'''Talk'''</span>'']] 08:05, 28 November 2011 (EST)
:I would say no, unless you can find proof the name of Project M was based off of that (which I find to be extremely unlikely). <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 12:11, 28 November 2011 (EST)

== Fighters ==

Can we get the list of the playable characters? [[User:King KirbyD|<font color="Gold">'''King'''</font>]] [[User talk:King KirbyD|<font color="Pink">'''Kirby'''</font>'''D''']] [[File:KingKirbyD.png|19px|link=Special:Contributions/King KirbyD]]  23:34, 22 April 2012 (EDT)
:[http://i.imgur.com/1o8uF.png Here]. [[User:Mousehunter321|<font face="Calibri">Mousehunter321</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Mousehunter321|<font face="Calibri">talk</font>]] · [[Special:Contributions/Mousehunter321|<font face="Calibri">contributions</font>]])</small> 23:37, 22 April 2012 (EDT)

== Updating the Article ==

Should we add pages for the Characters like with 64, Melee and Brawl?[[User:Nocturnal Dragon|Nocturnal Dragon]] ([[User talk:Nocturnal Dragon|talk]]) 23:53, 6 May 2012 (EDT)
:No. We only have character pages for the actual games. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Sharp 23:55, 6 May 2012 (EDT)
:Listing character changes on this article is fine though. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 23:56, 6 May 2012 (EDT)
::Since there is a growing competitive scene for PM, I think it's safe to assume the character changes in the current demo will remain relatively static. You guys think it would be fine to update the character changes especially to ones with major revisions such as Charizard and Ike.--<span style="background-color:#6d84e1;border:3px solid silver">[[User:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:silver">'''Brian'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:black">Don't try me!</span>]]</sup>[[File:Falco.gif|link=|27px]]</span> 23:37, 28 August 2012 (EDT)

== Finally finished the character changelist, what do you think? ==

Oh and before anyone asks, I did not include Ivysaur because he/she (the Project M character page states that Ivysaur is a girl, but I think its a boy) is not added yet. ([[User:GamerGuy09|GamerGuy09]] ([[User talk:GamerGuy09|talk]]) 22:38, 21 October 2012 (EDT))
:It's great, but ask {{S|User talk|Omega Tyrant}} if he is busy. If he isn't, then request a rewrite. <font face="Arial">[[User:ShupaRoeh|<font color="red">Shu</font><font color="green">pa]][[User Talk:ShupaRoeh|</font><font color="blue">Roeh</font></font>]][[File:TypicalGuy.png|19px|link=Special:Contributions/ShupaRoeh]] 23:01, 21 October 2012 (EDT)
::Can you explain why Omega Tyrant should be consulted here? [[User:Mr. Anon|<font color="grey">'''Mr. '''</font><font color="midnightblue">'''Anon'''</font>]][[File:Anon.png|23px|link=Special:Random]][[User talk:Mr. Anon|''<span style="color: black;">talk</span>'']]  23:02, 21 October 2012 (EDT)
:::He came in my mind when I requested a rewrite. <font face="Arial">[[User:ShupaRoeh|<font color="red">Shu</font><font color="green">pa]][[User Talk:ShupaRoeh|</font><font color="blue">Roeh</font></font>]][[File:TypicalGuy.png|19px|link=Special:Contributions/ShupaRoeh]] 23:05, 21 October 2012 (EDT)

== 2.5 Came Out ==

So I guess we should get ready for some changes and make a section for the new characters. Also, i'm thinking about adding a Stages page. [[User:GamerGuy09|GamerGuy09]] ([[User talk:GamerGuy09|talk]]) 01:11, 31 December 2012 (EST)

:Yup 2.5 is out and it is amazing. I'm making a list of all the changes I've noticed so far. For now we should add the new physics improvements made (like button delay removal and knockback stacking) as well as the aesthetic changes like new menus and stock control stuff. --<span style="background-color:#6d84e1;border:3px solid silver">[[User:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:silver">'''Brian'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:black">Don't try me!</span>]]</sup>[[File:Falco.gif|link=|27px]]</span> 02:54, 31 December 2012 (EST)

== 2.6 Came Out ==

There's a lot of updating that needs to happen. I'd be willing to provide screenshot GIFs (like the one I did for Sonic), but I am not 100% familiar with all of the changes. Here's the [http://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/1ijwp4/unofficial_26_change_log/ Project: M 2.6 Cahnges subreddit post] for reference. [[File:SSB Symbol (flat).png|20px]] <span style="font-family: Segoe WP; font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold"> [[User:Davidvkimball|<font color="black">davidvkimball</font>]]</span> 20:58, 22 July 2013 (EDT)
:An official change log will be released in about 2 weeks. I'll update the page accordingly.--<span style="background-color:#6d84e1;border:3px solid silver">[[User:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:silver">'''Brian'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:black">Don't try me!</span>]]</sup>[[File:Falco.gif|link=|27px]]</span> 11:35, 23 July 2013 (EDT)
::Awesome. :) [[File:SSB Symbol (flat).png|20px]] <span style="font-family: Segoe WP; font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold"> [[User:Davidvkimball|<font color="black">davidvkimball</font>]]</span> 18:40, 25 July 2013 (EDT)


== New Characters in PM? ==
Well, I was just minding my own business looking up Project M on YouTube. All of a sudden, I see a leak of what is supposedly '''[[Lyn]]''' and Knuckles fighting each other (being controlled by two people in the video). While it doesn't seem legitimate, half-way it shows that these two characters, along with '''[[Isaac]]''', have their own character slots (I presume they were cloned from characters already in the roster). Interestingly, Knuckles and Lyn have their own voices and moveset, and they do not replace Sonic or Marth whatsoever.

The original link was taken down, but another YouTube user [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxbgK__kUR4 re-uploaded] it for viewers to see.

Also, [http://smashboards.com/threads/new-characters-for-project-m-discussion-thread-voting-closed.341479/ a poll] (which is now closed) took place involving adding new characters in PM via cloning; of note is that both Lyn and Knuckles are two of those candidated characters.

Do you think that it is possible that PMBR could be adding more characters, rather than making the game more like ''Melee''?

:I'm not sure if this is the appropriate place to be asking that question, but I feel that the leak is totally legitimate. The characters have completely unique movesets that seem very well done. Also, notice that they are using the debug mode feature. That video was posted three days after debug mode was released. Do you think that they could make such well done models and movesets in just three days? Just my thoughts. [[User:John3637881|John]] ([[User talk:John3637881|talk]]) 16:44, 8 March 2015 (EDT)

::I'm curious, too! Knuckles sounds exactly like he does in his series (former voice: Dan Green); Lyn, however, has a different voice actress from her assist trophy role (ast. trophy voice: Lani Minella). Aside from cloned animations (Lyn using Pit's entrance, Zelda's double jump, and original samurai sword attacks; Knuckles using moves inspired by other PSAs for Knuckles), these moves are completely original and incredible! 
- As for models, I think that they're models used from vBrawl but with extras bones and edited textures. 
[http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=207340 Hacks for Lyn over Marth!]

Notice how Lyn has bones for her hair and skirt. It's similar to Roy and Mewtwo being over Marth and Lucario
(although Roy is a smaller version of Marth, and Mewtwo is just Lucario with extra tail and finger bones), but the hacks don't even compare to the Lyndis in PM!

Hope Project M makes an official announcement! :D [[User:Hylia&#39;s Eye|Hylia&#39;s Eye]] ([[User talk:Hylia&#39;s Eye|talk]]) 17:03, 8 March 2015 (EDT)

Sorry to bump an old topic, but should we mention [https://reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/3v3z3c/if_there_is_no_legal_strain_on_the_pmdt_can_we_at/cxk89y4 this] in any way? {{User:Nyargleblargle/Sig}} 07:39, 2 December 2015 (EST)
:Of course it was deleted... Basically, it said Knuckles and Lyn were indeed in development and almost complete, Isaac and Saki were also early in development, and Skull Kid was in the planning stage. [[File:Nyargleblargle.png|16px]][[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color:LawnGreen">'''Nyargle</span>]][[User talk:Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: orange;">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|Contribs]]) 08:25, 2 December 2015 (EST)

== Do those tags still need to be there? ==

I believe that the Project: M page is one of the best pages in ssbwiki. It shows a lot of changes and information about the mod itself. [[User:GamerGuy09|GamerGuy09]] ([[User talk:GamerGuy09|talk]]) 21:04, 4 October 2013 (EDT)

== A permanent hack? ==

After installing Project M, is it possible to return to the original ''Brawl''?? I would like to enjoy PM's competitiveness and all, but I don't want to lose ''Brawl'' at all. PM seems to lack some things. [[File:Crazyhandflash.gif|20px|link=]][[User:Crazymasterhand98|<font color="purple">'''Crazy'''</font><font color="gray">'''master'''</font>]][[User talk:Crazymasterhand98|<font color="blue">'''hand'''</font><font color="green">'''98'''</font>]] 17:02, 18 October 2013 (EDT)
:Don't worry, just turn it off and on and it returns to brawl. You have to go to Stage Builder each time to turn on Project: M. [[User:GamerGuy09|GamerGuy09]] ([[User talk:GamerGuy09|talk]]) 17:03, 18 October 2013 (EDT)
::OK then. [[File:Crazyhandflash.gif|20px|link=]][[User:Crazymasterhand98|<font color="purple">'''Crazy'''</font><font color="gray">'''master'''</font>]][[User talk:Crazymasterhand98|<font color="blue">'''hand'''</font><font color="green">'''98'''</font>]] 17:34, 18 October 2013 (EDT)

==Two Things==

1. Are you sure this is a hack. Call it what you want but this is a mod. I'm not sure if a hack is the same thing as a mod because I've been surfing the web and I'm pretty sure they're not the same thing. But whatever, you guys can figure that out.

2. Is there a page where there's instructions on how to install this? If there's not, than can I put them on?
[[User:FireMario1534|FireMario1534]] ([[User talk:FireMario1534|talk]]) 00:04, 14 November 2013 (EST)

:1. Hack/Mod is a similar term. So it really doesn't matter.
:2. There are instructions on the Project: M website. [[User:GamerGuy09|GamerGuy09]] ([[User talk:GamerGuy09|talk]]) 00:06, 14 November 2013 (EST)

::Okay thanks. But I'll still add instructions here anyway. [[User:FireMario1534|FireMario1534]] ([[User talk:FireMario1534|talk]]) 00:20, 14 November 2013 (EST)

== Changes lists ==

I guess we can move the changes lists on this page to the character-specific articles, right? [[User:Scr7|<span style="color:#0000FF"">S</span><span style="color:#7F7FFF">c</span><span style="color:#00FFFF">r</span><span style="color:#FF7F00">7</span>]][[File:Scr7 sig.png|link=]]([[User talk:Scr7|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Scr7|contribs]]) 14:02, 20 November 2013 (EST)
:They can probably be converted into short paragraphs once they have mains to link to. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Awesome 14:08, 20 November 2013 (EST)

Should the nerf/buff/change templates be used or not? [[User:Scr7|<span style="color:#0000FF"">S</span><span style="color:#7F7FFF">c</span><span style="color:#00FFFF">r</span><span style="color:#FF7F00">7</span>]][[File:Scr7 sig.png|link=]]([[User talk:Scr7|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Scr7|contribs]]) 14:39, 20 November 2013 (EST)

Wait, did the admins allow Project: M versions of characters have their own pages? [[User:GamerGuy09|GamerGuy09]] ([[User talk:GamerGuy09|talk]]) 15:27, 20 November 2013 (EST)
:Yes, the debate passed. [[User:Scr7|<span style="color:#0000FF"">S</span><span style="color:#7F7FFF">c</span><span style="color:#00FFFF">r</span><span style="color:#FF7F00">7</span>]][[File:Scr7 sig.png|link=]]([[User talk:Scr7|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Scr7|contribs]]) 15:33, 20 November 2013 (EST)

== Uh Guys.... ==

Does this article '''REALLY''' need to be here? [[User:Smashballz|Smashballz]] ([[User talk:Smashballz|talk]]) 17:40, 22 November 2013 (EST)
:And why should it not? Project M is popular enough in the competitive community that it is on an equal standing with the three actual games in the series, which was established after a whole month of [[Forum:The Project M debate|discussion]]. The mod needs a hub page regardless of how many pages the Wiki is making about Project M so that information and links can be found on a single page. <span style="font-family:Forte">[[User:Megatron1|<span style="color:maroon">Mega</span>]][[User talk:Megatron1|<span style="color:silver">Tron1</span>]][[User:Megatron1/Laughology|<span style="color:blue">XD</span>]]</span>[[File:Decepticon.png|19px]] 18:57, 22 November 2013 (EST)
== Demo 1.0 Image ==
I dont know how to upload images and im very confused and im trying to upload the Demo 1.0 Image http://projectmgame.com/en/news/announcing-the-project-m-demo
--[[User:Dinoboy411|Dinoboy411]] ([[User talk:Dinoboy411|talk]]) 13:12, 1 December 2013 (EST)
:Use the upload image button in the toolbar on the left of the screen. Also link to external sites in square brackets like this: <nowiki>[http://www.link.com/]</nowiki>. [[User:Scr7|<span style="color:#0000FF"">S</span><span style="color:#7F7FFF">c</span><span style="color:#00FFFF">r</span><span style="color:#FF7F00">7</span>]][[File:Scr7 sig.png|link=]]([[User talk:Scr7|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Scr7|contribs]]) 13:18, 1 December 2013 (EST)

== Put Project: M in Navigation? ==

It would just be easier to get to and from it. [[User:GamerGuy09|GamerGuy09]] ([[User talk:GamerGuy09|talk]]) 22:00, 8 December 2013 (EST)

== Downloading Instructions ==
I know the way you download PM hasnt changed much but I think we should have a more up to date Video. NinBuzz has one! --[[User:Dinoboy411|Dinoboy411]] ([[User talk:Dinoboy411|talk]]) 19:23, 9 December 2013 (EST)

== Remove change lists ==

Since we have the character pages, we should remove the individual character change sections and instead just have a list of characters with links to the pages, yes? [[User:Ryxis|Ryxis]] ([[User talk:Ryxis|talk]]) 14:43, 10 December 2013 (EST)
:Yeah, there's not much point to keep them on this page. [[User:Scr7|<span style="color:#0000FF"">S</span><span style="color:#7F7FFF">c</span><span style="color:#00FFFF">r</span><span style="color:#FF7F00">7</span>]][[File:Scr7 sig.png|link=]]([[User talk:Scr7|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Scr7|contribs]]) 14:46, 10 December 2013 (EST)
::Aight. Working on that now. Making one of those fancy tables. [[User:Ryxis|Ryxis]] ([[User talk:Ryxis|talk]]) 15:34, 10 December 2013 (EST)
:It has been done. If anyone thinks that the character changes should stay on the PM page, feel free to revert/discuss. [[User:Ryxis|Ryxis]] ([[User talk:Ryxis|talk]]) 15:55, 10 December 2013 (EST)

== What's with these custom CSPs? ==

Am I missing a place where there's discussion about it? I don't care about 'distancing P:M from Brawl', we shouldn't be using some custom CSPs that SJS (as talented as is!) made. Project M's website uses vBrawl-based artwork and its own for Mewtwo and Roy. I really think we should revert back. — [[User:Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon|Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon]] ([[User talk:Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon|talk]]) [[File:Jigglypuff_the_Magic_Dragon_sig.png]] 17:09, 12 January 2014 (EST)
:Project M's character pages on the website haven't been updated since a long time (and I think they're not going to). You can still see how Lucas's page mentions non-existent back and down aerials, how Snake's doesn't mention anything about his Tranquilizer Gun, and so on. The current version of PM uses CSPs, so they should be kept like that. [[File:Crazyhandflash.gif|20px|link=]][[User:Crazymasterhand98|<font color="purple">'''Crazy'''</font><font color="gray">'''master'''</font>]][[User talk:Crazymasterhand98|<font color="blue">'''hand'''</font><font color="green">'''98'''</font>]] 10:09, 28 January 2014 (EST)
::I have 3.02 and I see no evidence of these custom CSPs (aside from edited/new costumes). [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Awesome 10:53, 28 January 2014 (EST)
:::So why are we using them? I get that SmashWiki isn't official, but this is ridiculous. Why . . ? I am extremely opposed to this change (and I still haven't found any discussion about it, just a ton of upload logs) and I'd really consider it better if reverted. — [[User:Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon|Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon]] ([[User talk:Jigglypuff the Magic Dragon|talk]]) [[File:Jigglypuff_the_Magic_Dragon_sig.png]] 15:06, 1 February 2014 (EST)
::::Yeah I do agree with that, even if someone finds evidence that they were used at some point, because they don't seem to be now. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Victorious 17:16, 1 February 2014 (EST)
:::::I have been playing PM since demo 2.5. They were never used as far as I know. The pictures come from a custom pack made by someone named SJS. [[User:Dragon5|Dragon5]] ([[User talk:Dragon5|talk]]) 17:49, 1 February 2014 (EST)
::::::So i'm guessing we should change it back to brawl photos right? --[[User:TheLegendaryKRB|TheLegendaryKRB]] ([[User talk:TheLegendaryKRB|talk]]) 17:56, 1 February 2014 (EST)
:Yeah I'm not completely sure why we're using these in the first place? They're not in the game. We should switch back to Brawl's pictures, but that brings up the issue of the Palette Swap sections and what to do with those. [[User:Ryxis|Ryxis]] ([[User talk:Ryxis|talk]]) 09:55, 4 February 2014 (EST)
:Wait, Toom, what did you think I was talking about when I brought up this same issue a while back? '''[[User:MarioGalaxy|<span style="background:#000033;color:gold">MarioGalaxy</span>]]<sub><sup>[[User talk:MarioGalaxy|<span style="vertical-align:baseline;position:relative;bottom:0.36em;color:gold">Talk</span>]]</sup></sub>''' 11:45, 4 February 2014 (EST)
::You'll have to point to where that was, I don't know what you're talking about.
::In terms of palette swap sections: I see no reason to have them if they're unchanged from Brawl. If any costume at all has been added or changed, then it makes sense, but otherwise not really. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Yoshi 13:01, 4 February 2014 (EST)
:::[http://www.2shared.com/file/mUROA00f/pm_online.html I decided to extract all the '''altered''' CSPs from Project M and upload them here.] Seeing how we're kinda leaning towards getting rid of the old ones... Hope it helps  [[User:Dragon5|Dragon5]] ([[User talk:Dragon5|talk]]) 18:29, 4 February 2014 (EST)
::::I mean that is helpful, but a completely consistent table would be great. None of those have the bluish background and all of the vBrawl pics on here do. In addition, the Roy/Mewtwo pics with the background are the wrong color, and we don't have any for the Pokemon Trainer pokemon, so I really don't know. I'd say no background, but we don't have all of those. [[User:Ryxis|Ryxis]] ([[User talk:Ryxis|talk]]) 23:36, 15 February 2014 (EST)

== Clustered changes section ==

As most of PM's stuff consists almost entirely of Melee things (except that characters use their Brawl designs and aesthetics), including minor details such as the smash charge formula and the grab physics, shouldn't we list instead how much has PM changed from ''Melee''?? Just mentioning techniques from ''Brawl'' available in it (such as footstool jumping and DACUS) and how they have changed, or how has other stuff from Melee changed (such as the meteor cancel window), which would be simpler than listing almost everything existing in ''Melee''. [[File:Crazyhandflash.gif|20px|link=]][[User:Crazymasterhand98|<font color="purple">'''Crazy'''</font><font color="gray">'''master'''</font>]][[User talk:Crazymasterhand98|<font color="blue">'''hand'''</font><font color="green">'''98'''</font>]] 10:02, 28 January 2014 (EST)
:PM is a mod of Brawl. Any change lists should be using Brawl as the base. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Awesome 10:53, 28 January 2014 (EST)
::It honestly makes no sense to tell the viewer that you can see the unmodded character, but reflects on the game it was ''based'' on instead of what it ''actually came from.''  We can simply say what has been brought from ''Melee'' and ''64'' to this game instead. My prime example why ''Brawl'' should be used instead is that Yoshi's Egg Throw boost was removed. It is a very notable change because it completely changes part of his playstyle for players. In my opinion, fighting games always state changes from the previous game (''Brawl'' in this case) because it is a ''direct comparison''. To only address the differences from ''Melee'' to ''Project M'' leaves the changes kept from ''Melee'' to ''Brawl'' unaccounted for, thus we have a gap in knowledge that can only be filled in by context rather than content. [[User:Dragon5|Dragon5]] ([[User talk:Dragon5|talk]]) 19:09, 28 January 2014 (EST)
:::Actually, Dragon5, that would cause the individual character pages to become as clustered as this one. (Yes, many of them still are stubs, but that's primarly because of missing moveset data, and I can't contribute a single thing there for now due to my Wii disc reader's fault, seeing how hard I contributed on Charizard's article.) Project M is different from other Smash mods in that it tries to appeal more for ''Melee'' players, as both ''Melee'' and ''Brawl'' have a completely different gameplay, so the basis for changes in PM should be ''Melee''. Furthermore, many characters such as Jigg, C. Falcon, Fox and Sheik, performed well in ''Melee'' but are inferior or absolute garbage in ''Brawl'', so listing changes from ''Brawl'' would be inconsistent. Changes from ''Brawl'' should be listed only for characters that were superior there than in ''Melee'', such as Kirby, Zelda and Bowser. Yoshi and Ness did better in ''Brawl'', but I think they should have changes listed from ''Melee'' instead because of their major DJC techniques, so if you want to list that Egg Throw change, you can consider doing so on that move's description. [[File:Crazyhandflash.gif|20px|link=]][[User:Crazymasterhand98|<font color="purple">'''Crazy'''</font><font color="gray">'''master'''</font>]][[User talk:Crazymasterhand98|<font color="blue">'''hand'''</font><font color="green">'''98'''</font>]] 21:38, 28 January 2014 (EST)
::::Brawl is the base. Everything that PM does changes Brawl. Therefore the very concept of a "change list" implies "things that the devs changed about Brawl". That's my opinion. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Researcher 22:18, 28 January 2014 (EST)
Okay, I'm decided. PM's main page will still be listing pages from Brawl, since technically its engine derivates from Brawl as you say, and instead I'll now reorder the changes in this article under "Melee-based" (everything restored from there) and "Brawl-based" (Brawl-exclusive things in PM that were changed). Though for character pages, it's better to retain them as I said above. [[File:Crazyhandflash.gif|20px|link=]][[User:Crazymasterhand98|<font color="purple">'''Crazy'''</font><font color="gray">'''master'''</font>]][[User talk:Crazymasterhand98|<font color="blue">'''hand'''</font><font color="green">'''98'''</font>]] 22:33, 28 January 2014 (EST)


== Tier List? ==

Is there going to be a Tier List for Project M, like the rest of the Smash games? [[User:Smashdude10|Smashdude10]] ([[User talk:Smashdude10|talk]]) 22:22, 19 February 2014 (EST)
:Nothing will be definite until the game is completely finished.  There might be a few unofficial lists put onto the forums though.  The metagame is still developing and changes with each major update.  Either way, the PMBR aims to eliminate tier rankings for the most part. [[User:Dragon5|Dragon5]] ([[User talk:Dragon5|talk]]) 20:23, 27 February 2014 (EST)
::Since their is now a PM Tier list should place it on this page or the tier list page? --[[User:TheLegendaryKRB|TheLegendaryKRB]] ([[User talk:TheLegendaryKRB|talk]]) 16:12, 26 March 2014 (EDT)
:::This page. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 16:36, 26 March 2014 (EDT)
::::I'll be doing this shortly, I may need to modify some of the relevant templates for things to work. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Breegull 17:40, 26 March 2014 (EDT)
I've been informed by a PM dev that this tier list, even with a "preliminary" disclaimer, is "in no way official and should not be used". The given reason is that it was produced by a very narrow part of the playerbase, specifically Tristate CLASH players, some of which are not even high-level PM players. I think we might want to put it away until it has official backing. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Quintonic 15:26, 27 March 2014 (EDT)
:::::I also agree that it should be removed. The list on this page is completely unofficial and made by a very small portion of overall players. It's not even close to agreed upon by the majority of P:M players - for example, while Zelda is listed as #3 on the CLASH tier list, she's generally considered mid-low tier by the Smashboards P:M competitive boards. I request the list be removed from the page until an official list is released, or at least one compiled by more than what amounted to probably less than 1% of the competitive P:M fanbase. [[Special:Contributions/108.226.12.59|108.226.12.59]] 20:32, 7 July 2014 (EDT)Tao
::::::You're a few months late to the party. Also,
::::::>I request the '''list be removed''' from the page
::::::There is no list. There is only a link to the list. Is this what you were referring to? <span style="font-family:Forte">[[User:Megatron1|<span style="color:maroon">Mega</span>]][[User talk:Megatron1|<span style="color:silver">Tron1</span>]][[User:Megatron1/Laughology|<span style="color:blue">XD</span>]]</span>[[File:Decepticon.png|19px]] 21:06, 7 July 2014 (EDT)

== Tier List for other Brawl Mods? ==

What about the other Brawl mods? Will they get Tier Lists as well? Just asking. <font color="yellow">Smash</font><font color="red">dude</font><font color="orange">10</font> 08:25, 14 April 2014 (EDT)
:That's not for us to decide. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Orchestral 10:08, 14 April 2014 (EDT)

Oh, okay. <font color="yellow">Smash</font><font color="red">dude</font><font color="orange">10</font> 16:58, 14 April 2014 (EDT)

== Alternate costumes slots ==

Why can't we write the file number of each costume in Project M? We're already doing that with [[Palette swap (SSBB)|Brawl]], and I'm having hard time finding them. --[[User:Wolfy76700|Wolfy76700]] ([[User talk:Wolfy76700|talk]]) 17:53, 5 August 2014 (EDT)
::Alternate costumes are relatively unchanged from Brawl (for most characters), and since the team adds new costumes with their old ones it's best to leave them in the page that talks about their appearance. : [[User:Hylia&#39;s Eye|Hylia&#39;s Eye]] ([[User talk:Hylia&#39;s Eye|talk]]) 11:44, 26 June 2015 (EDT)

== So... unofficial stuff now? ==

If it's not by Nintendo...
--[[User:ComJacker|ComJacker]] ([[User talk:ComJacker|talk]]) 20:07, 24 October 2014 (EDT)
:…it stays. [[Forum:The Project M debate|Read this]] to find out why we have this article and PM character pages. Also, [[SW:OFFICIAL]]. <font face="AmericanTypewriter">[[User: Rtzxy|<span style="color:darkorange;">Rtzxy</span>]] [[File:SmashSig.jpeg]] [[User talk:Rtzxy|<span style="color:blue;">Smashing!</span>]]</font> 20:12, 24 October 2014 (EDT)


==Criminal Activity?==
Is Miiverse dumb enough that Project M has to do with theives? What kind of website would ban users for just saying Project M? Anyway I sorry for saying dumb, but anyway how is mentioning Project M or PM really offensive on Miiverse? ([[User:Smashworker101|Smashworker101]] ([[User talk:Smashworker101|talk]]) 19:00, 12 November 2014 (EST))

:It's flawed. It probably has to do with the fact that the Nintendo censors might mistake the "M" in "Project M" for something else that's inappropriate. But, erroneous bans are common on Miiverse, so there's that. <font face="Marker Felt">[[User:Rtzxy|<span style="color:#9f4f3f;">Rtzxy</span>]] [[File:Reflect.jpg|20x20px]] [[User talk:Rtzxy|<span style="color:#66CDAA;">''Reflect!''</span>]]</font> 19:13, 12 November 2014 (EST)

::This is a filter known as the [[wikipedia:Scunthorpe problem|Scunthorpe problem]], and I have to say, it's absolute nonsense. - [[User:Drilly Dilly|Drilly Dilly]] ([[User talk:Drilly Dilly|talk]]) 01:48, 18 August 2015 (EDT)

This is my understanding of the issue. Nintendo has no legal right to stop people from downloading or playing PM. It is however in their right to block services (such as Miiverse) if they wish. Obviously, they don't want people talking about hacking, probably because at some point some idiot will hack their console, break it, and try to sue them. They can't supply a custom ban message, so they pick the "illegal content" one, because it's kind of similar-ish and might scare the younger/less-knowledgable crowd into stopping. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Interspacial 20:56, 12 November 2014 (EST)

So if someone on Miiverse talks about hacking, they actually get banned? Like the example messages.

"Hey everyone, let's talk about hacking Super Smash Bros Brawl."

"Which one is good, Brawl+ or Brawl-?"

"Project M Project M Project M Project M Project M Project M PM PM PM PM PM PM."

"Ew, regular Super Smash Bros Melee is so overrated, but hacked Super Smash Bros Melee is awesome."

"Project M is way better than Brawl+ and Brawl-."

Like that? ([[User:Smashworker101|Smashworker101]] ([[User talk:Smashworker101|talk]]) 22:56, 12 November 2014 (EST))

:Pretty much. Miiverse is flawed, though, so… <font face="Marker Felt">[[User:Rtzxy|<span style="color:#9f4f3f;">Rtzxy</span>]] [[File:Reflect.jpg|20x20px]] [[User talk:Rtzxy|<span style="color:#66CDAA;">''Reflect!''</span>]]</font> 23:04, 12 November 2014 (EST)

::Yeah, I hate that this is even an issue as well, even though I get what Nintendo is doing. But basically, ''Project M'' in a nutshell is just elements from the previous 3 games in the series (obviously lot less elements from ''Brawl'' and ''Smash 64'') and putting them in one best-of modified complication. --[[Special:Contributions/71.238.114.106|71.238.114.106]] 23:31, 3 January 2015 (EST)

:::I've checked, it only results in the post being deleted. So uh, yeah. [[User:Wavedash|Wavedash]] ([[User talk:Wavedash|talk]]) 13:10, 18 April 2015 (EDT)

== Criticism/Controversy? ==

I noticed the Brawl+ page has received it's own controversy section of being accused as Melee 2.0 and the same criticism has been expressed towards Project M. Should we have a section for that on this page? [[Special:Contributions/128.187.97.18|128.187.97.18]] 01:39, 8 January 2015 (EST)

== Leaks? ==

Has anyone seen the leaks about Knuckles, Lyn, Isaac, and Sami? Should we mention them somewhere, like in the future releases? I know it's not particularly hard to fake a leak for a game that's already a hack, but at least Knuckles and Lyn have video proof and Isaac has a GIF. Also, much like Nintendo with the ESRB leak, PM requested the video of Knuckles and Lyn be taken down. I think it should be mentioned in the future releases section that at least Knuckles and Lyn were leaked for 4.0, if not Isaac and Sami, who have little evidence. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:Nutta Butta|Nutta.]] </small>  15:45, 11 March 2015 (EDT)
:It's not that I doubt the veracity of the leaks, but I believe we're better off waiting on this one. Unless I'm misunderstanding, there's still the outside possibility the characters involved are hacks unassociated with PM. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 16:03, 11 March 2015 (EDT)
::I'm with Miles on this one; these leaks include completely new characters, which, while I am aware is [http://mcleodgaming.com/viewflash.php?id=6&type=game not a new concept], is a bit sketchy. I mean, there are [[File replacement#Moveset hacks|moveset hacks]] that allow new characters to (potentially) be created. [[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan the'''</span>]] [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aura Master'''</span>]] 16:16, 11 March 2015 (EDT)
:: Thanks for Smash Flash 2, Aura Master. :) Anyway, Nutta, I too mentioned about the links in the section "New Characeters in Project M?". [[User:Hylia&#39;s Eye|Hylia&#39;s Eye]] ([[User talk:Hylia&#39;s Eye|talk]]) 00:43, 14 March 2015 (EDT)
:::3.6 has the Bowser's Castle stage that was leaked alongside Knuckles, Lyn, and Isaac. Is this enough proof? <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:Nutta Butta|Nutta.]] </small>  11:44, 30 March 2015 (EDT)
::::Eh, I'd just say let's add stuff to the page as the PMDT officially reveals it. It's simpler that way. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 13:44, 30 March 2015 (EDT)
:::::I know exactly what you're talking about! But I found it kind of strange that Lyn kept saying "Mi kenearu!" and Knuckles kept saying "Alright!" so I think it's fake! Plus faking things is easier than you think! Also Lyn kept blurbing Japanese while Knuckles spoke English, another reason I think it's fake!Nintenzilla (talk) 21:31, 4 May 2015 (EDT)
<small>(Reset indent) </small>[[Marth|*ahem*]] [[File:Aidanzapunksignature.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Master of Speed and Aura'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 21:49, 4 May 2015 (EDT)
:Good point, but still they say the same thing over and over again. "One clip wonders!"[[User:Nintenzilla|Nintenzilla]] ([[User talk:Nintenzilla|talk]]) 07:42, 5 May 2015 (EDT)
::Also Lyn uses Pit's entrance animation instead of a unique one. Knuckles using Sonic's animations I can understand![[User:Nintenzilla|Nintenzilla]] ([[User talk:Nintenzilla|talk]]) 09:03, 5 May 2015 (EDT)
:::If they use the same animations, then it's a hack. Case closed. [[File:Aidanzapunksignature.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Master of Speed and Aura'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 09:05, 5 May 2015 (EDT)
::::Yeah, faking these kinds of things is really easy to do! All you need is an SD card and some files and there, hacked![[User:Nintenzilla|Nintenzilla]] ([[User talk:Nintenzilla|talk]]) 09:29, 5 May 2015 (EDT)
::::Well, do you think [http://i.imgur.com/Q9gQQnY.gif these] [http://i.imgur.com/ZMNCIib.gif are] [https://i.imgur.com/SBolVkQ.gif fake] [http://i.imgur.com/1YavlmG.gif as well]? I know the video had some differences, but I can't think of anyone else who can do this other than the PMBR. [[User:Hylia&#39;s Eye|Hylia&#39;s Eye]] ([[User talk:Hylia&#39;s Eye|talk]]) 19:59, 7 June 2015 (EDT)
:::::The main problem with the "it's a hack" thing is that it's a leak for a hack. The way they make new characters like Mewtwo and Roy is by modifying someone else's moveset (in the case of Mewtwo, significantly). It's very logical that in an early video of them, Lyn and Knuckles would have strong similarities to whoever they started from (in this case, Marth and Sonic). The voice clip thing is probably something similar, it's early on so they don't have full voices yet. Either way, it's better to wait. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:Nutta Butta|Nutta.]] </small>  20:54, 7 June 2015 (EDT)
:::::I'm aware of the cloning process for characters, and how the development team gets their voices in, and I agree. Get this, however; I've noticed some of Mewtwo's and Roy's SFX don't match that of Melee completely. For instance, their shield stun voices from Melee are now their light hitstun voices, and for grunts when they get hit, Mewtwo (oddly) will sometimes using his Shadow Ball throw grunt. I've even tested this by replacing Mewtwo's PM voice with his Smash 4. Perhaps the video is real, but it also shows that the team cannot get their entire voice clips for the character at all times.

And on a maybe off-topic note, for the new characters, I think the team is likely to clone the two you mentioned while using the boneset and animations from Lyn's and Knuckle's non-playable models (basically, they do not rig another model over an existing characters, but more like using a .rel file, just like how they got the two cut Melee characters.) [[User:Hylia&#39;s Eye|Hylia&#39;s Eye]] ([[User talk:Hylia&#39;s Eye|talk]]) 09:52, 8 June 2015 (EDT)

== I'm very unsure where and how to put Project M 3.6 Beta in here ==
As we all know, the beta just got released yesterday, but I'm unsure how you would put such a thing in here. Maybe someone else can do it better than me? [[User:F0rZ3r0F0r|F0rZ3r0F0r]] ([[User talk:F0rZ3r0F0r|talk]]) 10:56, 24 June 2015 (EDT)
:I downloaded the 3.6 Beta, and the Alternate Stages (AS)s are as follows:
:*[[Battlefield (SSBM)]] is ASL for [[Battlefield (SSBB)]] 
:*[[Delfino Plaza]] is AS for Delfino's Secret
:*[[Yoshi's Island (SSBM)]] is AS for [[Yoshi's Island (SSBB)]]
:*[[Lylat Cruise|Lylat Cruise (SSBB)]] is AS for Lylat Cruise (nontilting)
:*[[Summit]] is ASL for Infinite Glacier
:*[[Castle Siege|Castle Siege (SSBB)]] is AS for Castle Siege (nontransforming)
:*[[New Pork City]] is ASL for [[Fourside]] 
:*Skyloft M is AS for [[Temple]]
:*[[Yoshi's Island (SSB)]] is AS for [[Yoshi's Story]]
:*[[Sector Z]] is AS for [[Corneria]]
:*[[Planet Zebes]] is AS for [[Brinstar]]
:*[[Pokémon Stadium]] is AS for [[Pokémon Stadium 2]], but they use Pokémon Stadium's music and stage slot - Saffron City takes Stadium 2's slot/music
:*The N64 versions of [[Meta Crystal|Metal Cavern]], [[Hyrule Castle]], [[Saffron City]], [[Dream Land (SSB)]], and [[Peach's Castle]] are ASs for their HD versions
:*The Brawl versions of [[Rumble Falls]], [[Norfair]], [[WarioWare, Inc.]], [[Distant Planet]], [[Skyworld]], [[Green Hill Zone]], and [[Hanenbow]] are ASs for their Project M versions
:I think that's all: all other stages don't have an AS. [[User:Jigglypoof21|Jigglypoof21]] ([[User talk:Jigglypoof21|talk]]) 01:02, 25 June 2015 (EDT)

== Shared voiceclips ==

Question about the shared voice clips.

So...yeah, Roy and Mewtwo's voice clips no longer replace the bosses. But, let's say I want to put Lucario's Smash 4 voice over its old one, and do the same for Roy and Mewtwo's old voices. I know how to hack and all, but is their a way to do this at all since they share the same soundbank? [[User:Hylia&#39;s Eye|Hylia&#39;s Eye]] ([[User talk:Hylia&#39;s Eye|talk]]) 09:42, 26 June 2015 (EDT)

== Can't install ==

I have a problem here: I successfully extracted the files over to my formatted 2GB SD Card and have inserted the card into my Wii. With no stages available, I go to the Stage Builder. Suddenly, after bypassing the black screen with the text on it, the game freezes at the green-and-purple screen. It's always happening, regardless of whether I choose Hackless normal or Hackless MediaFire. Could anyone point out the problem(s), if there are any? - [[Special:Contributions/76.220.44.86|76.220.44.86]] 00:02, 30 June 2015 (EDT)
:[[SW:NOT|We're not tech support]]; consider asking for assistance on SmashBoards, Reddit, or elsewhere. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 00:05, 30 June 2015 (EDT)
::I know. My point is, how can I contact PMDT? - [[Special:Contributions/76.220.44.86|76.220.44.86]] 00:12, 30 June 2015 (EDT)
:::I doubt the PMDT does personal tech support. Try [http://smashboards.com/forums/help-and-support.363/ here], and perhaps [http://smashboards.com/threads/project-m-freezing-at-green-purple-screen.408113/ this thread]? This took me about 30 seconds to find on SmashBoards; do the rest yourself. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 00:18, 30 June 2015 (EDT)

== Installing 3.6 ==

Do you install 3.6 in the same way you install 3.5? (extracting the files over to your SD Card) - [[Special:Contributions/76.220.44.86|76.220.44.86]] 19:52, 2 July 2015 (EDT)
:Did you miss the "we're not tech support" thing in the last section? Once again, if you have questions, take it to somewhere like the help section on the PM boards of SmashBoards, not this talk page. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 20:19, 2 July 2015 (EDT)
::It's a yes or no question. - [[Special:Contributions/76.220.44.86|76.220.44.86]] 00:28, 3 July 2015 (EDT)
:::Yes 3.6 Beta can be installed through SD Card. I can confirm this myself. -[[User:Jetfire77|Jetfire77]] ([[User talk:Jetfire77|talk]]) 00:49, 3 July 2015 (EDT)

== Remove the tier list ==

I really think the tier list (or rather, link to the tier list) needs to be removed. First off, it's horribly outdated, being from 3.02. 3.5 changed most of the characters to a large degree (which, on a semi-unrelated note, also disenchanted me from PM for the most part). The PM devs also say that there is no official tier list. So. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:Nutta Butta|Nutta.]] </small>  21:22, 4 July 2015 (EDT)

== Full 3,6 Out now! ==

The full version has been released today! 
[http://projectmgame.com/en/news/project-m-3-6-full-changelist Here's the changelist]! [[User:Hylia&#39;s Eye|Hylia&#39;s Eye]] ([[User talk:Hylia&#39;s Eye|talk]]) 15:39, 16 August 2015 (EDT)

== Balanced? ==

According to the website, the mod is designed to be balanced with the cast while providing technical and advanced gameplay. Is being balanced really true (I just hope it is)? - [[User:Drilly Dilly|Drilly Dilly]] ([[User talk:Drilly Dilly|talk]]) 01:46, 18 August 2015 (EDT)

== Reformatting the 3.6b and 3.6 sections? ==

I was going to add the 3.6 release date (August 16, 2015; not yet featured), and noticed that the writeups (before the bulleted changelists) for 3.6b and 3.6 sections differ a bit from that of previous versions.  It's ok to simplify them to just say "Released Month/Day/Year" like the others, right?  New here and wasn't sure if we wanted the fluff of not. [[User:ECHOnce|ECHOnce]] ([[User talk:ECHOnce|talk]]) 21:50, 26 August 2015 (EDT)

== PM stages ==

Should we make pages for stages exclusively made for PM, like Bowser's Castle, Delfino's Secret, etc. This would give us the opportunity to use otherwise unused pics, and these stages aren't covered anywhere else. What do you think? [[User:DekZek|<font color="midnightblue">'''Dek'''</font><font color="blue">'''Zek'''</font>]] [[File:Dekzeksig.png|23px|link=User talk:DekZek]] 11:13, 3 September 2015 (EDT)
:I'm guessing that if we did that, we could also mention the HD remakes on the N64 stage pages and stuff like that.  I wouldn't mind including PM stages. [[User:Jigglypoof21|Jigglypoof21]] ([[User talk:Jigglypoof21|talk]]) 12:37, 3 September 2015 (EDT)
::[[Forum:The Project M debate|There's a reason we don't]]. [[File:Aidanzapunksignature.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Master of Speed and Aura'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 12:45, 3 September 2015 (EDT)

== Verification for this? ==

"The development team have also discussed the possibility of adding brand new characters, as the clone engine allows for a maximum of seven characters for the roster, meaning there are five characters left that the engine can create. Guidelines for new characters state that the character must appear in Brawl in some way (Mewtwo appears as a trophy and Roy appears as a sticker, for example) and cannot be a newcomer to Smash 4 (like Little Mac, Bowser Jr., Palutena, and Villager, despite their cameo appearances in Brawl)"

It doesn't give a source, and it's not on the projectmgame.com news blog. Is there any evidence for this at all? Because I thought they weren't adding any more characters...[[Special:Contributions/72.104.215.193|72.104.215.193]] 14:23, 29 November 2015 (EST)
:[http://smashboards.com/threads/new-characters-for-project-m-discussion-thread-voting-closed.341479/ How's this?] {{User:Nyargleblargle/Sig}} 14:54, 29 November 2015 (EST)

== Alright, Leaked Dev Build; Knuckle, Lyn, and Isaac playable, with only Isaac being unfinished. New costumes included as well.  ==

What do we do about this? Do we acknowledge it? Do we make pages for Knuckles and Lyn? It is 100% legitimate, it comes from wiiztec himself that it's legit. 

Additionally, do we note that Sami from Advance Wars and Skull Kid from Majora's Mask were planned to be in the game before it ceased development?

Or do we ignore all of this information?  

Relevant links: [https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3v3ipo/project_m_has_ceased_development/ Context for PM's cancellation for those out of the loop], [https://www.reddit.com/r/NewPMDT/comments/3v5710/wiiztec_former_pmdt_ama/cxkgnmf wiiztec's AMA where he acknowledges (and essentially confirms) the leak], [https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3v5kpc/two_unreleased_pm_characters_issac_sami/ Footage of Isaac and Sami], [https://www.reddit.com/r/NewPMDT/comments/3v6co7/dev_build_discovery_thread/ Best collection of info I could find about the dev build], [https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3v58lc/knuckles_lyn_isaac_sami_and_possibly_skull_kid/ Confirmation of Isaac, Sami, and Skull Kid from a different dev], [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87NjPQge3Iw Old Footage of Knuckles and Lyn]. [[User:Laikue|Laikue]] ([[User talk:Laikue|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Laikue|contribs]]) 15:19, 2 December 2015 (EST)
:I'd say mention Knuckles, Lyn, and Isaac in the article, maybe include them in an "unfinished characters" section of the character table or something. I'm ''very'' iffy on pages; IMO it should depend on whether a widely-accepted tribute version of Project M is created. [[File:Nyargleblargle.png|16px]][[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color:LawnGreen">'''Nyargle</span>]][[User talk:Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: orange;">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|Contribs]]) 15:37, 2 December 2015 (EST)
::I am honestly going to be pushing in the near future to condense our Project M character pages into something more like a fleshed-out, prose version of [[Brawl-/Character changes]]. The "leaked" characters could share a section at the bottom of such a page. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 16:12, 2 December 2015 (EST)
:::I don't agree with that last statement. To live, PM needs to be kept heavily documented. Condensing the database would just be pushing forward its death. That being said, I do agree on a section with info on the unfinished characters.--[[Special:Contributions/46.193.64.81|46.193.64.81]] 16:34, 2 December 2015 (EST)
::::It's not our responsibility for PM to be "alive", and continuing to treat it as its own game warranting all those character pages is a dubious proposition at this point. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 16:54, 2 December 2015 (EST)
:::::I'd be okay with giving them some mention, but I think we should avoid character pages unless tournaments start using this leaked build somehow. [[User:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:Green; text-shadow: 0px 0px 3px green">'''Disaster'''</span> <span style="color:Blue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px blue">'''Flare'''</span>]] [[File:Disaster Flare signature image.png|20px]] ''[[User talk:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:SkyBlue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px skyblue">(talk)</span>]]'' 16:55, 2 December 2015 (EST)
:::::I don't know about giving full pages to the leaks, but I feel like whether to cease giving character pages to the other characters and roll back PM coverage entirely should be based on whether or not it's still being used by tournaments, not whether it's still being developed. After all, Melee hasn't been developed for 14 years. Smashwiki shouldn't feel responsible to keep it alive, but I don't think they should abandon it unless it becomes very clear that it's dead. [[Special:Contributions/72.104.215.193|72.104.215.193]] 19:37, 5 December 2015 (EST)
::::::I agree with this completely. If we are going to be a complete Smash wiki, we should have as much information as possible relating to mods as significant as ''Project M''. <b>[[User:john3637881|<span style="color: black;">John</span>]]</b> [[File:John3637881 Signature.png|20px]] <b>[[User talk:John3637881|<span style="color: red;">PK SMAAAASH!!</span>]]</b> 21:30, 5 December 2015 (EST)
:::::::PM was always a deliberate exception when it came to how the wiki handled fan content; that was made perfectly clear, as was that it was done because of how unexpectedly popular that the mod got. As the official development has ceased and its popularity starts to wane back into line with the other mods, I feel it'd be appropriate to pare back the amount of coverage it gets on this wiki. It may be a better idea to split it off into its own wiki elsewhere and renew our focus on the official material as things "go back to normal", so to speak. [[Image:VinSymbol.png|16px|link=User:VinLAURiA]][[User:VinLAURiA|VinLAURiA]] ([[User talk:VinLAURiA|talk]]) 10:46, 8 December 2015 (EST)
<small>(reset indent)</small> I still think it's too early to consider Project M's popularity to have waned permanently. [[File:Nyargleblargle.png|16px]][[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color:LawnGreen">'''Nyargle</span>]][[User talk:Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: orange;">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|Contribs]]) 10:49, 8 December 2015 (EST)

For now, I've included mention of the fighters in the Characters section, but anything more needs significant discussion. [[File:Nyargleblargle.png|16px]][[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color:LawnGreen">'''Nyargle</span>]][[User talk:Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: orange;">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|Contribs]]) 17:28, 2 December 2015 (EST)

== "Was" ==

Is the word "was" used in this article because the team stopped developing newer revisions and PM can't be downloaded though their website anymore? I believe it is still played in tournaments, Anther's Ladder, and is still downloadable. They stopped making revisions but that doesn't mean it is not meant to be played anymore. -- [[User:Ethan7|Ethan7]] ([[User talk:Ethan7|talk]]) 15:45, 7 December 2015 (EST)
:I also feel that we should use the present tense. Balanced Brawl and Brawl+ also use the present tense on this wiki. <b>[[User:john3637881|<span style="color: black;">John</span>]]</b> [[File:John3637881 Signature.png|20px]] <b>[[User talk:John3637881|<span style="color: red;">PK SMAAAASH!!</span>]]</b> 21:54, 7 December 2015 (EST)

== 3.6 CC ==

Ok, we all know about this one I bet. I suggest adding it onto the revisions, or making notice of it in it's own small subject.

== PM Underground tier list... ==
Should the PM Underground list be considered official? If so, my proposal is to represent it as a table similar to the ones on the [[tier list]] page, while still maybe mentioning the other linked tier lists in prose. Right now it seems like somebody just linked to the list without considering the existing content, so this should probably be addressed in some fashion. [[User:Capefeather|Capefeather]] ([[User talk:Capefeather|talk]]) 22:13, 1 January 2016 (EST)
:I'd say wait, in case we get a Project M Backroom. [[File:Nyargleblargle.png|16px]][[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color:LawnGreen">'''Nyargle</span>]][[User talk:Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: orange;">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|Contribs]]) 22:26, 1 January 2016 (EST)
::I could have swore we had a PM tier list somewhere. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:12pt">[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">'''Serpent'''</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;">'''King'''</span></span>]] 22:27, 1 January 2016 (EST)
::[[Template:PMTiers|aha]]! <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:12pt">[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">'''Serpent'''</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;">'''King'''</span></span>]] 22:28, 1 January 2016 (EST)
:I don't consider this to be official. Frankly, I don't think we should bother covering competitive PM that doesn't include Knuckles, but that's my opinion. <b>[[User:john3637881|<span style="color: black;">John</span>]]</b> [[File:John3637881 Signature.png|20px]] <b>[[User talk:John3637881|<span style="color: red;">PK SMAAAASH!!</span>]]</b> 22:36, 1 January 2016 (EST)
::But he was never "official" was he? <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:12pt">[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">'''Serpent'''</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;">'''King'''</span></span>]] 22:39, 1 January 2016 (EST)
:::I see your point, but I fail to see why the community is just passing by several completed characters. If people want PM to survive, it needs to offer something the other games don't have. "Balance" is not that thing, despite what that tier list may suggest. When was the last time a major PM tourney was played? If there was one, I probably would have heard of it. I'm aware of Shots Fired 2, but who knows what version of PM they'll use, and they announced the event before PM development was ended. The way I see it, anybody's opinion on what is tournament legal and what is not is just as valuable as anybody else's. Do you understand what I'm trying to get at? <b>[[User:john3637881|<span style="color: black;">John</span>]]</b> [[File:John3637881 Signature.png|20px]] <b>[[User talk:John3637881|<span style="color: red;">PK SMAAAASH!!</span>]]</b> 22:56, 1 January 2016 (EST)
:::I've given this some thought. PMDT only wants us to play the last "official" version. [[Super Smash Bros. Brawl|So why don't we?]] Everyone's definition on what is "official" is differs when it comes to modding. You could argue that nothing is. That's part of the reason I think it wouldn't hurt to scale back on some of the PM content. I have an idea on some stuff that is unnecessary on the character pages, namely the update histories. However, waiting until Shots Fired 2 might be wise. <b>[[User:john3637881|<span style="color: black;">John</span>]]</b> [[File:John3637881 Signature.png|20px]] <b>[[User talk:John3637881|<span style="color: red;">PK SMAAAASH!!</span>]]</b> 00:30, 2 January 2016 (EST)

== What happens if Nintendo finds out you are playing it? ==

I don't know but someone said you would get banned online forever.  I'm nerveous.  P.S. I'm doing it secretly, no one will know.[[User:Swagman|Swagman]] ([[User talk:Swagman|talk]]) 20:47, 31 January 2016 (EST)
:I doubt it. Many people do it. [[User:Penro|Penro, the]] [[File:PenroDarkPitHead.png|19px|Dark Pit]] and [[File:PenroZSSHead.png|19px|ZSS]] main.  20:50, 31 January 2016 (EST)
Yeah, he also said that, and that I get rid of it to be safe, but you are right![[User:Swagman|Swagman]] ([[User talk:Swagman|talk]]) 20:59, 31 January 2016 (EST)

== Smash Bros. Legacy ==

A new team of developers have decided to continue Project M's ideas, known as "Smash Bros. Legacy." (I may be a little late on this, btw...)

http://www.smashbroslegacy.com/

Are we able to add information about this, whether on Project M's page or otherwise? I don't have the necessary applications to download this myself, but would this be worth noting or no? ([[User:Alex95|Alex95]] ([[User talk:Alex95|talk]]) 12:05, 14 April 2016 (EDT))
:To my understanding, it's a PM mod, therefore making it a mod of a mod. I personally wouldn't add info on it here. [[File:AidanzapunkSig1.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Wandering Dragon Warrior'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSig2.png|20px]] 12:10, 14 April 2016 (EDT)
::SmashWiki focuses on the competitive aspect of games. Seeing as that, I don't think this counts, as 1. It hasn't reached anywhere Near the popularity of PM, and 2. No attributes are changed, so functionally it's exactly the same. Just my opinion.[[User:DekZek|<font color="MidnightBlue">'''Dek'''</font><font color="Blue">'''Zek'''</font>]] [[File:Dekzeksig.png|20px|link=User talk:DekZek]] 12:35, 14 April 2016 (EDT)

== Unused Content...in general ==

I know it's been dead since December, but...I was thinking, would it hurt if we placed an "Unused Content" section after the Release History section? Asking because I found a website with every further unused content from Project M. If you're against this, you have EVERY right to criticize! I just thought I'd ask.


Here's the [https://gamingreinvented.com/news/new-project-m-content-leaked-v/ link] in question. Please ignore the stuff after the last picture. [[User:Hylia&#39;s Eye|Hylia&#39;s Eye]] ([[User talk:Hylia&#39;s Eye|talk]]) 15:44, 5 October 2016 (EDT)
:Not acceptable. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Verdana;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 17:46, 5 October 2016 (EDT)
::Yeah pretty sure we decided somewhere that PM unused stuff was not notable enough to mention. <span style="font-family:Chiller;font-size:18px;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px #222">[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#d50">Serpent</span>]] [[File:SKSigHalloween.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#d50">King</span>]]</span> 18:49, 5 October 2016 (EDT)

== Recent edit ==

This recent edit (the one with the IP) was made by me, but the expired session locked me out due to multiple proofreading and revising before I settled on the change. So [[Special:Contributions/67.177.150.42|this IP]] and I are one and the same. --[[User:HillustrationM|HillustrationM]] ([[User talk:HillustrationM|talk]]) 18:24, 13 October 2016 (EDT)
:That's fine. Just remember to never use "you" or "your" unless quoting. <span style="font-family:Chiller;font-size:18px;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px #222">[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#d50">Serpent</span>]] [[File:SKSigHalloween.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#d50">King</span>]]</span> 18:27, 13 October 2016 (EDT)

== Issue Rebranding ==

I made the following change on August 2nd, [[Project M#Errors|adding this to the Errors section]]:

<pre>The mod will also freeze in [[10-Man_mode|10-Man Smash]] when spawning the CPU-controlled version of {{PM|Mewtwo}} and {{PM|Roy}}.</pre>

Well, I made the change at a time where it did crash, but now, it isn't. [[User: Bowser vs Bowser Jr.|Bowser vs Bowser Jr]] confirmed it on the Wii, so I decided to rebrand the statement as a console-only issue. I could be wrong again, but this is the way I can explain my latest edit. Thanks!

--[[User:HillustrationM|HillustrationM]] ([[User talk:HillustrationM|talk]]) 19:40, 13 November 2016 (EST)

== "Upper-mid tier" ==

Zelda is in the middle of C-tier, behind over three-quarters of the cast. I don't know how to describe it, but "upper mid-tier" is definitely not it. --[[Special:Contributions/121.127.211.201|121.127.211.201]] 20:33, 3 March 2017 (EST)

== Legacy mods ==
Should there be a mention/page for Legacy XP and Legacy TE?
Now that there are three of them, they should be at least acknowledged due to their similarities to Project M. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 11:13, 27 February 2019 (EST)
:It looks good so far. I've had to correct some misinformation about them, so I'll do my best to keep an eye on the other changes made, if any. I think it would be a mistake to add many other mods other than Legacy TE, Legacy XP, and Project+, only because there are so many out there, and those three are probably the most popular PM-derivatives. [[File:SSB Symbol (flat).png|18px]] <span style="font-family: Segoe WP; font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold"> [[User:Davidvkimball|<font color="black">davidvkimball</font>]]</span> 20:55, April 21, 2019 (EDT)

== can we convert this to P+? ==

P+ is basically considered as the official update to PM [[User:Zachula5|Zachula5]] ([[User talk:Zachula5|talk]]) 19:59, April 5, 2020 (EDT)

I mean even in the competitive scene almost everybody has dropped PM for P+.

== Discluded Melee Tech ==
V-cancelling is not the only known Melee advanced technique to not return in PM/+. Sticky walking and Charlie walking come to mind, light-shielding mechanics, melee tether AT's... I'm sure there's more.

== Character Pages for Legacy XP ==

I'm starting to feel like the characters from Legacy TE and XP are being left out. Can we make pages for these? [[User:SuperPiranha85]] [[User talk:SuperPiranha85]]
:[[Forum:The Project M debate|Project M]], [[Forum:P+ content|P+]], and [[Forum:Smash Remix content Part 2|Smash Remix]] all had lengthy discussions to be given more recognition on the wiki. You'll need to do similar if you want those mods to have more than a mention on another article. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 15:33, May 9, 2024 (EDT)
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