Editing Talk:Music (SSBU)

== I oppose to the page deletion ==

[[User:Aidanzapunk]] asked for this page to be deleted because it is "not needed right now, especially since the final product of a list like this will consist of multiple pages, as it has in the past". I don't agree, this is a huge part of the SSBU infos we got at this point. This is not documented anywhere and this place is the best. And of course it is needed right, I don't see why we should delete this page because "it's not needed right now". [[User:Hugman|Hugman]] ([[User talk:Hugman|talk]]) 12:24, 10 October 2018 (EDT)
:Well, for one, we have [[Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Official Site/Music|this]] to cover the music that we (officially) know, and we have the other universe pages to cover any new tracks we find. This page will serve no purpose once the full game releases, since, like we did for [[Template:Music|''Brawl'' and ''Smash 4'']], we'd have individual pages for the music tracks in the game. This page is redundant, in my honest opinion. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: black;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: orange">'''the Spooky Rurouni'''</span>]] 12:27, 10 October 2018 (EDT)
::I never actually saw this page, indeed [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Super_Smash_Bros._Ultimate_Official_Site/Music|it's only linked to a single article]]. I also think this page should be kept for consistency with other games. [[User:Hugman|Hugman]] ([[User talk:Hugman|talk]]) 12:33, 10 October 2018 (EDT)
:::''64'' and ''Melee'' only have the music on one page because of how little music there actually is. You saw the ''Ultimate'' Direct - there's over 800 songs in this game. There's no "consistency" to be kept with a page like this. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Aidanzapunk|Aidanzapunk]] ([[User talk:Aidanzapunk|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Aidanzapunk|contribs]]) 11:36, October 10th, 2018</small>
::::I guess you are right, but I would like to see that music page being linked a bit much, like [[Super Smash Bros. Ultimate|here]]. [[User:Hugman|Hugman]] ([[User talk:Hugman|talk]]) 12:46, 10 October 2018 (EDT)
:::::There's no real point in doing that, especially on the main page. We didn't do that for ''Smash 4'' (let alone cover the different tracks available on that site), and the page itself doesn't even cover all the new tracks; not to mention we don't bring up the new music on any other game's page. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: black;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: orange">'''the Spooky Rurouni'''</span>]] 14:56, 10 October 2018 (EDT)

'''Oppose deletion.''' Forgive me for butting in, but we have a "Music (game)" page for all of the games. Not just for ''64'' and ''Melee'', but also [[Music (SSBB)|''Brawl'']] and [[Music (SSB4-Wii U)|both]] [[Music (SSB4-3DS)|versions]] of ''Smash 4''. Whether or not having these pages is redundant for post-''Melee'' games is an argument that should probably be addressed alongside this issue, but because of the precedent that's been established thus far, don't think this page should be deleted, at least not until a thorough discussion has taken place. <b>[[User:john3637881|<span style="color: black;">John</span>]]</b> [[File:John3637881 Signature.png|20px]] <b>[[User talk:John3637881|<span style="color: red;">HUAH!</span>]]</b> 15:32, 10 October 2018 (EDT)
:Yea, I failed to notice that, so that's on me. However, I will still argue their redundancy, as they list information that is accessible on other pages. I find the listing of lists very redundant and unnecessary. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: black;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: orange">'''the Spooky Rurouni'''</span>]] 15:34, 10 October 2018 (EDT)
::That's a fair point, but if we were to delete all the "Music (game)" pages, I think we would need to have appropriate redirects. Just last week I actually searched for "Music (SSBU)" in the search bar and was surprised to see that no one had made such a page yet. <b>[[User:john3637881|<span style="color: black;">John</span>]]</b> [[File:John3637881 Signature.png|20px]] <b>[[User talk:John3637881|<span style="color: red;">HUAH!</span>]]</b> 15:35, 10 October 2018 (EDT)
:::Adding an argument there: we could already keep an eye on every ported musics from the past installments and list them down here. [[User:Hugman|Hugman]] ([[User talk:Hugman|talk]]) 15:44, 10 October 2018 (EDT)

I am also '''opposed''' to deletion of this page. I do not think that the redundancy offered by this page is a negative thing; if I wanted to get a list of all the songs in [[Music (SSB4-Wii U)]], if there was no aggregate page like this one, I would need to open 32 different universe pages. That is a drastic reduction in functionality for in my opinion no benefit. I would accept the page only existing as split pages as a necessary evil if the size of the page grew to be unwieldy (i.e. to the point of no longer loading), but for a text table of sizes like this, I do not see the need. I would therefore keep this page as well as any universe-specific subpages. &ndash; [[User:Emmett|<span style="color:#000000">Emmett</span>]] 15:48, 10 October 2018 (EDT)

== Collapsible sections ==

When the music tracks from ''Ultimate'' come flowing in when the game releases, do you think it would be possible to have collapsible sections for each universe's music selection, like for the amiibo article? [[File:SonicSpeed48HalloweenSig4.png|17px]][[User:SonicSpeed|<span style="color: orange;">'''Sonic'''</span>]], [[User talk:SonicSpeed48|<span style="color: maroon;">'''the Speedy Spookable'''</span>]][[File:SpookableScarerTigger.png|17px]] 18:38, 10 October 2018 (EDT)
:'''I'm all for this idea'''. Ultimate is gonna have more music in it than the iTunes Store, so taking measures to reduce clutter makes a lot of sense. [[User:Black Vulpine|<span style="color: black;">'''Black Vulpine'''</span>]] of the [[User talk:Black Vulpine|'''Furry Nation''']]. [[Special:Contributions/Black Vulpine|<span style="color: #CC5500">'''Furries make the internets go! :3'''</span>]] 18:45, 10 October 2018 (EDT)
:'''Full support''' - [[User:Hugman|Hugman]] ([[User talk:Hugman|talk]]) 11:54, 13 October 2018 (EDT)
:'''Support''', although I don't remember the amiibo article having that, maybe it's because I use my phone a lot. [[Special:Contributions/72.133.91.93|72.133.91.93]] 09:12, 14 October 2018 (EDT)Blueflame105

== Splash Screen ==

I couldn't say everything I wanted to about Splash Screen in the edit summary, so I'll do so here. Here, I'm summing up my main two points of evidence why [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4qjLJHwurs this song] is almost definitely '''not''' Splash Screen, and why we should probably wait before continuing to spread potentially false information that has never been confirmed. Remember: just because GameXplain said it, doesn't mean it's true!
*Splash Screen is 2:03 on the sound test (so it probably loops at around 1:50). The song in the video loops at around 1:26, which is way too short.
*The name "Splash Screen" suggests that this is probably a title or menu theme. According to Metroid Database, the song in the video is a battle theme.
I'm pretty sure that Splash Screen is [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4k6R-au70Q the title theme], which makes sense for the name and is the appropriate length (about 1:54). However, since this hasn't been confirmed, I would hesitate to even link to this theme on the page. Until we know for certain which theme is Splash Screen, we shouldn't spread speculation. --[[User:PeabodySam|PeabodySam]] ([[User talk:PeabodySam|talk]]) 22:28, 13 October 2018 (EDT)
:Ah, that makes sense! I wasn't 100% sure because of my unfamiliarity with ''Metroid'', but I agree that this is the best course of action. Thank you for clarifying. [[User:DryKirby64|DryKirby64]] ([[User talk:DryKirby64|talk]]) 22:36, 13 October 2018 (EDT)

== Indeterminate Sources ==

Would anyone be opposed to an indeterminate / "unconfirmed" option for music sources, like the [[Assist Trophy]] and [[Item]] pages? I say this mostly because of the ''Castlevania'' section, but there are also a few in the ''Zelda'' section that fall under this (for example, Village of the Blue Maiden and Midna's Lament). Of course, this wouldn't really matter once the game is out... [[User:DryKirby64|DryKirby64]] ([[User talk:DryKirby64|talk]]) 01:01, 14 October 2018 (EDT)
:Both the Castlevania songs and the Zelda examples you gave were shown in the August Smash Direct: Castlevania had its own section at the beginning of the Direct, and the Zelda examples were "discovered" when Sakurai showed off Sound Test. [[User:SugarCookie420|SugarCookie420]] ([[User talk:SugarCookie420|talk]]) 09:33, 14 October 2018 (EDT)
::To elaborate, I mean that we don't know if these particular songs are remixes or if they're just ported from other games; we just know the titles. Since it leaves some awkward blank space, I was wondering if an "indeterminate" option would be useful. [[User:DryKirby64|DryKirby64]] ([[User talk:DryKirby64|talk]]) 15:59, 14 October 2018 (EDT)
:::Oops, sorry for the late reply. The page is still incomplete because we don't have the full library, so I think we can just leave it be for now. [[User:SugarCookie420|SugarCookie420]] ([[User talk:SugarCookie420|talk]]) 18:44, 26 October 2018 (EDT)

==Merge Super Mario and Mario Kart==
I believe that if we give every spin-off game with many music tracks their own section, it'll make the Music section crowded. Also, I don't believe Mario Kart has its own section in Sound Test, and I believe we should be consistent with Sound Test. [[User:SugarCookie420|SugarCookie420]] ([[User talk:SugarCookie420|talk]]) 21:53, 10 November 2018 (EST)
:Mario Kart did have its own section in ''Brawl'', and given how there are two Mario icons in the Sound Test in Ultimate, I don't think that them repeating that distinction is an improbable claim to make. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: red;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: orange;">'''the Thankful Rurouni'''</span>]] 22:09, 10 November 2018 (EST)
::Funny enough, I have no recollection with making this section... Nevertheless that's fine with me. [[User:SugarCookie420|SugarCookie420]] ([[User talk:SugarCookie420|talk]]) 19:03, 24 November 2018 (EST)
:::Ah, just want to clarify that I'm the one who split ''Mario'' and ''Mario Kart''. By now, we already know that the Sound Test splits them up, and the Mario section is already the largest to begin with (over 100 tracks!), so I thought it'd help with making the page a bit more digestible. [[User:DryKirby64|DryKirby64]] ([[User talk:DryKirby64|talk]]) 18:20, 27 November 2018 (EST)

==Crunchii==
I want to dedicate this section to a good YouTuber, Crunchii. He did a great job posting gaming soundtracks but thanks to the 21 copyright strikes, his reign came to an end. He is a great friend of mine and I want to thank him for everything. [[User:Dragonfirebreath25|Dragonfirebreath25]] ([[User talk:Dragonfirebreath25|talk]]) 18:10, 27 November 2018 (EST)
:This is probably not the most appropriate place to post this. [[User:SugarCookie420|SugarCookie420]] ([[User talk:SugarCookie420|talk]]) 18:16, 27 November 2018 (EST)

== 876 or 877 tracks? ==

The completed sound test listing of tracks reads 876. Yet the music page on the wiki says 877. Either every Smash player ever is collectively missing one, or the wiki is counting one that isn't actually there.

I believe the culprit is "Boss Theme - Super Mario Bros. 2" since AFAIK that only plays when there isn't much time left when playing with "Ground Theme - Super Mario Bros. 2 (Original)".
:Except that that's actually in the sound test. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: red;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: green;">'''the Festive Rurouni'''</span>]] 14:04, 17 December 2018 (EST)
::Ah. Well in that case have all of these been verified?
:The missing song is "Ground Theme - Super Mario Bros. 3" (the original version, not the Melee or Ultimate remixes) and it's not part of the Super Mario Maker stage because the other ground themes are available separately as well. It appears to be unobtainable for unknown reasons. ''~'''[[User:Marlotix|Marlotix]]''''' ([[User talk:Marlotix|Talk]]·[[Special:Contributions/Marlotix|Contributions]]) 18:24, 19 December 2018 (EST)
::I think you’re right. Someone told me when I was looking for it that it was unobtainable. I was using this page to try to finish my music collection and saw that i was supposedly missing that one but then someone on Reddit told me that that one is unavailable and that I was actually missing Melty Monster, which was accurate. [[Special:Contributions/99.203.128.218|99.203.128.218]] 23:44, 28 December 2018 (EST) (edit: the preceding comment was made by a logged out [[User:aykrivwassup|aykrivwassup]])
::Should we remove it from this list as it isn't present in the sound test? Sound test presence feels like it should be the criteria for listing on the music pages, lest we include all the Kirby retro medley tracks and Street Fighter crisis versions. I say we stick with the acknowledgement of such tracks in the opening paragraphs and remove it from the listing since the precedent is sound test tracks. [[User:TheDavsto|TheDavsto]] ([[User talk:TheDavsto|talk]]) 05:49, 29 December 2018 (EST)
:::Couldn't someone just list all the tracks that are NOT in the sound test for completion's sake, perhaps under their own section?
::::Hurray! Someone did!

== Final Fantasy Series name ==

If you look at the series list in Smash Ultimate, Final Fantasy is listed as "FINAL FANTASY VII." I propose we change the series name to align with this. [[User:JosukeJoestar9|JosukeJoestar9]] ([[User talk:JosukeJoestar9|talk]]) 12:07, 4 January 2019 (EST)
:Really late comment, but [[SW:OFFICIAL|SmashWiki is not official]]. Furthermore, Final Fantasy VII is still Final Fantasy, so there's nothing wrong with that. [[User:SugarCookie420|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman"><span style="color: red;">SugarCookie</span></span>]] [[User talk:SugarCookie420|<span style="font-family:Impact"><span style="color: green;">420</span></span>]] 21:43, 26 February 2019 (EST)
::I believe we should at least do that for this page. We use exactly what it says in-game on the Brawl music page, so why not on here? It's not consistent. The same with the Sonic universe, which is simply labeled as Sonic.[[User:Ma321|Ma321]] ([[User talk:Ma321|talk]]) 12:57, 4 March 2019 (EST)
:::The main reason we do is because what we wrote on that page matches with what the series is. For example, Sonic the Hedgehog is called that in Brawl (albeit in caps). I'm sure that if ''Brawl'' called the series "Sonic" we would have still gone with "Sonic the Hedgehog" since that is the universe name. The same goes here.
:::As for Final Fantasy, it would look out-of-place that all the universes are being called by their franchise name, but Final Fantasy is the only one that's not. [[User:SugarCookie420|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman"><span style="color: red;">SugarCookie</span></span>]] [[User talk:SugarCookie420|<span style="font-family:Impact"><span style="color: green;">420</span></span>]] 13:55, 4 March 2019 (EST)
::::Also, regarding the Template:Music change, by "consistency" I meant that, if you were to call the Pac-Man universe "PAC-MAN" in Ultimate, then it should be the same in ''Smsah 4'', or else it doesn't look consistent. That's another problem I see with calling Sonic the Hedgehog "Sonic" and Final Fantasy "Final Fantasy 7", it doesn't match up with everything and that ironically makes everything inconsistent. [[User:SugarCookie420|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman"><span style="color: red;">SugarCookie</span></span>]] [[User talk:SugarCookie420|<span style="font-family:Impact"><span style="color: green;">420</span></span>]] 13:58, 4 March 2019 (EST)

== StreetSmash music? ==

It seems the StreetSmash song doesn't show up under any of the "My Music" stages. Neither Battlefield, Final Destination, nor the menu section.

== Music Player on-site? ==

I just now noticed that it only gives the YouTube link with the music, though do you want me to add .mp3 files and paste it into the music list? I could do that to avoid the amount of time it takes to download 0_o EDIT: Wait, I forgot my signature '-'
Hoodie the Wolf [[File:Hoodie_Signature.png|20px]] (The guy that sucks at Smash Bros) 12:37, October 14, 2019 (EDT)
:I already have the entire soundtrack, with tags, uploaded to a Google Drive. I could add the links to the files if that is a thing we would like to do.
:JosukeJoestar9 11:08pm (EST)
::To prevent legal action from Nintendo and generally make sure we're not straining the server, we don't host audio files longer than 30 seconds, like the victory themes. Also, be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>). ~ [[User:Serena Strawberry|<span style="color: #e68;">'''Serena Strawberry'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Serena Strawberry|talk]]) 23:18, November 21, 2019 (EST)

== Is the notes section supposed to be game accurate? ==

Notes often list something like Arrangement Supervisor, which is listed in-game, but sometimes also list things not present in-game, and miss info in-game! Should we attempt to fix this?
:I noticed this too, and generally we limit it to just the Arrangement or Arrangement Supervisor. The "From (such and such game)" notes are there in-game, but a while back someone added "''Remixed'' from (such and such game)" for a few songs, which I'm not sure I can verify. I'm not sure if we should leave that or not. ~ [[User:Serena Strawberry|<span style="color: #e68;">'''Serena Strawberry'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Serena Strawberry|talk]]) 23:21, November 21, 2019 (EST)

== The Origin sections ==

I have seen that many of the pages where the origin description of songs are, have no consistency. Many have titles with no capital letters(ex. overworld theme), and the different between title and game of source is not consisten between plain text, between quotations marks or cursive. Could it be OK to suggest keeping a consistency like quotation marks for "Song's Name", cursive for ''Game Title & Soundtrack Source'' or something like that. I can do it myself in my free time but I want to know if it would be OK to do so. [[User:DoctaShield|DoctaShield]] ([[User talk:DoctaShield|talk]]) 20:32, October 6, 2021 (EDT)
:Real quick, ''this is italics'' not cursive (cursive is connected letters and more loops). Can you give a page as an example of what you mean? Using overworld theme as an example doesn't help much since it can be a general term and thus not need capitalization (a quick search showed all uses as a title with capitals). --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 21:04, October 6, 2021 (EDT)
:Sorry, english in my second lenguage and MS Word usually names it "Cursiva" so my bad for not researching that. Well lets see for example Super Mario World Medley it exactly says:

:This theme is a medley of various themes from ''{{s|mariowiki|Super Mario World}}'', starting off with the overworld theme. It leads into an interlude with percussion used whenever playing a level while riding [[Yoshi]], before transitioning into the [[supermariowiki:Bonus Game (Super Mario World)|bonus game]] theme. Following this is the "Level Clear" theme, the {{s|mariowiki|Star World}} and finally the [[Super Star]] theme before looping. The overall style is very similar to the original 16-bit soundfont, with a prominent electronic beat.

:This songs have official titles even though they are close to the ones here but with no capital letters like "Overworld BGM", "Bonus Screen BGM", with the "Level Clear" being the only in this format. [[User:DoctaShield|DoctaShield]] ([[User talk:DoctaShield|talk]]) 22:21, October 6, 2021 (EDT)
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 I have seen that many of the pages where the origin description of songs are, have no consistency. Many have titles with no capital letters(ex. overworld theme), and the different between title and game of source is not consisten between plain text, between quotations marks or cursive. Could it be OK to suggest keeping a consistency like quotation marks for "Song's Name", cursive for ''Game Title & Soundtrack Source'' or something like that. I can do it myself in my free time but I want to know if it would be OK to do so. [[User:DoctaShield|DoctaShield]] ([[User talk:DoctaShield|talk]]) 20:32, October 6, 2021 (EDT)
 :Real quick, ''this is italics'' not cursive (cursive is connected letters and more loops). Can you give a page as an example of what you mean? Using overworld theme as an example doesn't help much since it can be a general term and thus not need capitalization (a quick search showed all uses as a title with capitals). --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 21:04, October 6, 2021 (EDT)
+:Sorry, english in my second lenguage and MS Word usually names it "Cursiva" so my bad for not researching that. Well lets see for example Super Mario World Medley it exactly says:
-::Sorry, english in my second lenguage and MS Word usually names it "Cursiva" so my bad for not researching that. Well lets see for example Super Mario World Medley it exactly says:
+:This theme is a medley of various themes from ''{{s|mariowiki|Super Mario World}}'', starting off with the overworld theme. It leads into an interlude with percussion used whenever playing a level while riding [[Yoshi]], before transitioning into the [[supermariowiki:Bonus Game (Super Mario World)|bonus game]] theme. Following this is the "Level Clear" theme, the {{s|mariowiki|Star World}} and finally the [[Super Star]] theme before looping. The overall style is very similar to the original 16-bit soundfont, with a prominent electronic beat.
-::This theme is a medley of various themes from ''{{s|mariowiki|Super Mario World}}'', starting off with the overworld theme. It leads into an interlude with percussion used whenever playing a level while riding [[Yoshi]], before transitioning into the [[supermariowiki:Bonus Game (Super Mario World)|bonus game]] theme. Following this is the "Level Clear" theme, the {{s|mariowiki|Star World}} and finally the [[Super Star]] theme before looping. The overall style is very similar to the original 16-bit soundfont, with a prominent electronic beat.
+:This songs have official titles even though they are close to the ones here but with no capital letters like "Overworld BGM", "Bonus Screen BGM", with the "Level Clear" being the only in this format. [[User:DoctaShield|DoctaShield]] ([[User talk:DoctaShield|talk]]) 22:21, October 6, 2021 (EDT)
-::This songs have official titles even though they are close to the ones here but with no capital letters like "Overworld BGM", "Bonus Screen BGM", with the "Level Clear" being the only in this format. [[User:DoctaShield|DoctaShield]] ([[User talk:DoctaShield|talk]]) 22:21, October 6, 2021 (EDT)
-:::It seems English is unique in calling it "italic" instead of "cursive", or at least distinguishing between them.
-:::Personally I see the usage of "overworld theme" normal considering it is a very generic term and, in the case of ''Super Mario'', is formally called "Ground Theme". However, I did notice "Athletic Theme" not being capitalized correctly despite that being its actual name, same for "Level Clear". Those should be corrected to be consistent, but I think overworld theme can stay unless that series has a song with the title "Overworld Theme" like ''Zelda''. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 22:50, October 6, 2021 (EDT)
-::::Oh interesting, you have a point, as far as it is written as the description of where does it play, it can be kept unless it really is the official title of the song. Talking about titles, I guess it goes the same way with title themes, no need for capital letters? [[User:DoctaShield|DoctaShield]] ([[User talk:DoctaShield|talk]]) 00:00, October 7, 2021 (EDT)
-== Unlock criteria on each series' pages ==
-I know that there's a page detailing the unlock criteria for all the unlockable songs, but I was thinking maybe we could also have them listed on the pages for specific series too. This was done with articles for prior ''Smash'' games, so I don't see why we shouldn't also do so for ''Ultimate''. As an example for the article detailing the ''Mario'' music:
-'''Melty Monster'''
-'''Origin'''
-This is the theme of Melty Monster Galaxy, ported directly from ''Super Mario Galaxy 2''.
-'''Composition & Arrangements'''
-Source: Super Mario Galaxy 2
-Composition and arrangement Copyright Nintendo
-Japanese title: マグマモンスター, Magma Monster
-'''Unlock Method'''
-Find a [[chest]] hidden in the [[Molten Fortress]] sub-area of [[World of Light]].
-[[User:TomLegend101|TomLegend101]] ([[User talk:TomLegend101|talk]]) 06:58, December 30, 2021 (EDT)
-== "Other Uses" Yay or nay? ==
-On this wiki, are we listing places where these songs play outside of their designated stages or not? There's plenty of examples in [[Music (SSBM)]] that indicate when a song plays during a character's credits, on a non-fitting stage in All-Stars, or during a particular event. Same for uses of songs in stages of the [[Subspace Emissary]] on the Brawl pages. But I tried to do the same for Spirit Battles and it was all unceremoniously removed. Consistency is key. Do we include "other uses" or not? [[User:Shadow2|Shadow2]] ([[User talk:Shadow2|talk]]) 06:55, June 2, 2022 (EDT)
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