Editing Talk:Magikoopa

== Merge ==
The SSB4 in-game trophy and its description refer specifically to Kamek, not Magikoopas in general. I think the title of the article should probably be changed to reflect this.
[[User:Frezgle|Frezgle]] ([[User talk:Frezgle|talk]]) 02:43, 21 October 2014 (EDT)

That makes sense to me ([[User:XxP1NKxX|XxP1NKxX]] ([[User talk:XxP1NKxX|talk]]) 21:31, October 6, 2021 (EDT))

I vehemently '''oppose''' a merge. There's a great deal of distinction between the character and the species in English-language game releases and I don't think we're doing anybody any favors by conflating them. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Verdana;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 14:21, November 15, 2021 (EST)

I '''don't have an opinion''' either way on whether to merge Kamek and Magikoopa (though [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|Miles]] does make a '''''great''''' point above on why they shouldn't be merged) but if the consensus ends up being to merge them I made a [[User:Aykrivwassup/Magikoopa|draft]]. Even if we don't use it I don't mind, I was just bored in class the other day to be honest XD (I'm in college so it's fine lol) [[User:Aykrivwassup|Aykrivwassup]] ([[User talk:Aykrivwassup|talk]]) 08:15, November 17, 2021 (EST)

:As the one who proposed the merge on the main article, I '''support''' the merge, despite the fact that I actually share Miles' misgivings. To make comparisons with other ''Mario'' characters, we have single articles for [[Yoshi]], [[Toad]], and [[Birdo]] rather than attempting to divide them into separate "species" and "character" articles as Super Mario Wiki does. And the line between the specific Kamek and the generic Magikoopa tends to get blurred in many games outside the ''Yoshi'' series; it doesn't help that Kamek looks identical to Magikoopas in general, or that he's sometimes called "Magikoopa", or that the species is often called "Kamek", or that recent ''Mario'' games just use generic enemies as characters so even if there's just one Magikoopa called "Kamek" it's ultimately up to the fans to decide whether he's actually ''the'' Kamek or not... it's a mess.

:Furthermore, I believe the wiki's coverage of subjects should reflect that's presented by ''Smash'', and while it's not ideal to conflate Kamek's character with the Magikoopa species, that's exactly what ''Smash'' does; every instance of Magikoopa (except for Kammy) is called "Kamek". This also means that our current Magikoopa article is largely redundant because it's essentially a rehash of Kamek's 3DS and SSBU sections (plus Kammy). While it's probably true that Kamek appearing in Smash Run suggests he's supposed to be a generic enemy rather than a character, both versions of SSB4 use the same exact Kamek trophy to reinforce that they are the same, and the use of singular masculine pronouns in the 3DS trophy (i.e. "he" instead of "it" like all other Smash Run enemies) also suggests the notion that the Smash Run enemy is meant to be a single character rather than a generic Magikoopa. Besides, ''Smash'' is also the same series where Robin can summon Chrom to fight Chrom... maybe it's "apples and oranges", but I did just want to bring it up to show that ''Smash'' isn't always the most consistent about a character's uniqueness.

:I think the best way to merge the articles would be to have the article called "Kamek" and treat it similarly to the Yoshi/Toad/Birdo articles, covering both the species and the character. I would have the article focus largely on Kamek as a character while also noting that "Kamek" also can refer to generic Magikoopas and note that there isn't always as clear as distinction between the two as we would like. Kammy could probably be left out of the SSBU section if it helps to reduce confusion. But I would absolutely not keep the 3DS Smash Run enemy on a separate SmashWiki article from the rest of Kamek's appearances, not when ''Smash'' acts like they're one and the same. --[[User:PeabodySam|PeabodySam]] ([[User talk:PeabodySam|talk]]) 09:01, November 17, 2021 (EST)

::I '''support''' per PeabodySam and in-game evidence. I've played Smash Run enough to verify that only one Kamek can exist at a time (but he can respawn if defeated), likely due to his ability to teleport. Futhermore, Kamek's magic blasts in Smash Run are very reminiscent of those he fires during his boss battle in ''New Super Mario Bros. U'' in both appearance and the fact he can fire them in a three-way spreadshot. [[User:ShootingStar7X|ShootingStar7X]] ([[User talk:ShootingStar7X|talk]]) 19:02, December 13, 2021 (EST)

::Echoing everything PeabodySam said, I '''support''' merging since there is just not enough differentiation between Kamek and generic Magikoopas in Smash. -[[User:Rdrfc|Rdrfc]] ([[User talk:Rdrfc|talk]]) 06:52, September 24, 2022 (EDT)

:Damn. Do you know how many species of Magikoopa there are (I think I saw a lot of Magikoopas in SMB movie, I'm not exactly sure how many I saw)? Not trying to tone, but regardless, I '''oppose'''. [[User:Jordan P.|Jordan P.,]] [[User talk:Jordan P.|the Sora main]] [[File:SoraHeadSSBUWebsite.png|15px]] 14:23, June 22, 2023 (EDT)
::There are also two Spirits in ''Ultimate'' based on Magikoopa species. [[User:Jordan P.|Jordan P.,]] [[User talk:Jordan P.|the Sora main]] [[File:SoraHeadSSBUWebsite.png|15px]] 14:25, June 22, 2023 (EDT)
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 :Damn. Do you know how many species of Magikoopa there are (I think I saw a lot of Magikoopas in SMB movie, I'm not exactly sure how many I saw)? Not trying to tone, but regardless, I '''oppose'''. [[User:Jordan P.|Jordan P.,]] [[User talk:Jordan P.|the Sora main]] [[File:SoraHeadSSBUWebsite.png|15px]] 14:23, June 22, 2023 (EDT)
-::There are also two [[spirits]] in ''Ultimate'' based on Magikoopa species. [[User:Jordan P.|Jordan P.,]] [[User talk:Jordan P.|the Sora main]] [[File:SoraHeadSSBUWebsite.png|15px]] 14:25, June 22, 2023 (EDT)
+::There are also two Spirits in ''Ultimate'' based on Magikoopa species. [[User:Jordan P.|Jordan P.,]] [[User talk:Jordan P.|the Sora main]] [[File:SoraHeadSSBUWebsite.png|15px]] 14:25, June 22, 2023 (EDT)
-:::There's only one Magikoopa in the SMB movie, and it's Kamek (besides, this is the Smash wiki, not the SMB movie wiki, so the movie is irrelevant here). Of the two spirits in ''Ultimate'', one is Kamek. I'm not sure that your arguments are as sound as you think they are. --[[User:PeabodySam|PeabodySam]] ([[User talk:PeabodySam|talk]]) 14:46, July 1, 2023 (EDT)
-I've put together [[User:PeabodySam/Sandbox/Kamek|a draft]] for a potential merging of the two articles. It's largely a combination of what's already written in the articles, plus ShootingStar7X's notes above Kamek's Smash Run behaviors. Any thoughts? --[[User:PeabodySam|PeabodySam]] ([[User talk:PeabodySam|talk]]) 15:06, July 1, 2023 (EDT)
-:I think the part about the magic blasts' similarities to the ''NSMBU'' ones should be in the Origin section instead, but other than that, it looks very good! [[User:ShootingStar7X|ShootingStar7X]] ([[User talk:ShootingStar7X|talk]]) 21:09, July 5, 2023 (EDT)
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