Editing Talk:Lucas (SSB4)

I updated the image currently showing Lucas's alternate colour schemes, but my account isn't old enough to add it to the page yet. If someone could change the image in that section to the following image , it would be helpful. <br />
[[File:Lucas_altcolours.png]]<br />
[[User:Handstand|Handstand]] ([[User talk:Handstand|talk]]) 22:26, 1 April 2015 (EDT)
:Try uploading it over the existing [[:File:Lucas Palette (SSB4).png|Lucas colors image]] ("Upload a new version of this file"); afterwards I'll delete the duplicate version you linked above. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 22:27, 1 April 2015 (EDT)
::I tried that, but it failed. [[File:Aidanzapunksignature.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Master of Speed and Aura'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 22:28, 1 April 2015 (EDT)

== Transparent Render ==

I found a transparent render, as well as mockups of the confirmed costumes (if we want them) at http://smashbros-miiverse.com/characters/lucas . Mentioned it on the image discussion, but got no response. [[Special:Contributions/216.130.144.24|216.130.144.24]] 14:13, 2 April 2015 (EDT)

:[http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/fantendo/images/8/88/Lucas_SSB4.png/revision/latest?cb=20150411123348 higher quality and full size] [[Special:Contributions/99.241.174.148|99.241.174.148]] 10:29, 11 April 2015 (EDT)

== Make a page on ==
His Final Smash. (Add sig here)
:We haven't seen it in Smash 4 yet. Also, please sign with four tildas (squiggly lines.) [[Special:Contributions/72.15.80.185|72.15.80.185]] 19:34, 2 April 2015 (EDT)

== Special moves ==

Have his special moves been confirmed, with retained inputs? &ndash; [[User:Smiddle|Smiddle]] 02:36, 3 April 2015 (EDT)
:uh, I have no idea why they wouldn't retain their previous inputs. [[User:Laikue|Laikue]] ([[User talk:Laikue|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Laikue|contribs]]) 02:48, 3 April 2015 (EDT)
::They've done that before ([[Mario Tornado]] for example), why couldn't they do it now? Especially with the prevalence of standard attacks with special move-ish properties in the game. &ndash; [[User:Smiddle|Smiddle]] 08:42, 10 May 2015 (EDT)
:::Given the precedent of Mewtwo, I think it's quite safe to assume the moves we've seen are the same inputs as in Brawl unless we're told otherwise. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 08:50, 10 May 2015 (EDT)

== Brawl/Smash 4 Differences? ==

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HprcU0bx9vE --[[User:ComJacker|ComJay]] ([[User talk:ComJacker|talk]]) 23:47, 3 April 2015 (EDT)

== Transparency ==

There's a high quality transparent version on this wiki! See here: [[:File:SSB4_Lucas.png|Lucas SSB4]] [[User:Whitey|Whitey]] ([[User talk:Whitey|talk]]) 20:46, 12 April 2015 (EDT)
:This has been discussed repeatedly. Please look around for a further explanation. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 20:58, 12 April 2015 (EDT)
::I have access to the Nintendo UK press site, and can get the image with a transparent background from there, if that's acceptable. The only potential issue is probably actually proving I sourced it from the press site, since it can only be accessed by other people with access. --[[User:Moydow|Moydow]] ([[User talk:Moydow|talk]]) 21:13, 12 April 2015 (EDT)
:::If you have some means of proving you have such access, then that would be fine. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 22:56, 12 April 2015 (EDT)
::::[http://imgur.com/BCPd8u2,xl4kbB6 Two screenshots] of myself logged in to the press site. Will those do? --[[User:Moydow|Moydow]] ([[User talk:Moydow|talk]]) 12:16, 13 April 2015 (EDT)
:::::Looks fine to me. Upload the image you obtained as "Lucas SSB4.png" (assuming it's a png), and I'll work from there. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 13:17, 13 April 2015 (EDT)
:[[:File:Lucas SSB4.png|Done]]. I scaled it down a bit, since the original image is over 5,000px wide. --[[User:Moydow|Moydow]] ([[User talk:Moydow|talk]]) 13:49, 13 April 2015 (EDT)

== Banned from EVO? ==

It's been stated that Lucas will be banned from EVO this year, should we include that somewhere in the article?[[User:Nintenzilla|Nintenzilla]] ([[User talk:Nintenzilla|talk]]) 09:33, 5 May 2015 (EDT)
::I agree on this matter, include it. --[[User:Darth Nightmaricus|Darth Nightmaricus]] ([[User talk:Darth Nightmaricus|talk]]) 15:34, 9 June 2015 (EDT)
:::We might want to be on the lookout for announcements from EVO about Ryu and Roy as well, as I'm sure the same ban will happen to them as well [[User:Gpev96|Gpev96 (SHAZAM!)]] ([[User talk:Gpev96|talk]]) 11:22, 14 June 2015 (EDT)

==Frame Data==
So. "''don't try and pretend you can get accurate frame numbers out of a video''".
I have previously been able to read accurate frame data from Ness' moveset by recording the gamepad screen with a phone (as you can see from both his frame data threads on Smashboards:
http://smashboards.com/threads/rough-frame-data.381497/ compared to the correct frame data here:
http://smashboards.com/threads/ness-smash-4-3ds-1-0-4-frame-and-hitbox-data.383724/
So, what did I get right? 
Jab hitbox 3,
Ftilt hitbox 7,
Dtilt hitbox 3,
Fsmash hitbox 21,
Usmash hitbox 6,
Dsmash hitbox 10,
Nair hitbox 5,
Fair hitbox 8,
Bair hitbox 10,
Uair hitbox 8-11,
Dair hitbox 20,
Grab frame 6,
Dash grab frame 8,
Pivot grab frame 10.
Go ahead. Check these numbers on both threads. That's his entire standard moveset bar Utilt, which was off by one frame. Specials are organised differently by the frame data.

Lucas' reveal video is captured from the source and therefore the frame data can be interpreted even more accurately by advancing frames, with any 1 frame errors being due to the 29fps of the video.

If you honestly still believe it is impossible to acquire frame data from a video and you choose to dismiss my proof, then there is nothing that will change your mind.
I will keep it in its sticky in the Smash 4 Lucas Boards, where, in excess of 5,000 views, no-one has said that "you can't get accurate frame numbers out of a video".

Have a nice day. [[User:PKBeam|PKBeam]] ([[User talk:PKBeam|talk]]) 03:59, 12 May 2015 (EDT)
:I respect your commitment, but listing estimated frame data for unreleased content is something we just don't do here. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Quiet 10:46, 12 May 2015 (EDT)
::Especially when it's something they can very easily change before release. [[User:Bulbaboy|Bulbaboy]] ([[User talk:Bulbaboy|talk]]) 11:35, 12 May 2015 (EDT)

== So... ==

[http://www.smashbros.com/sp/us/dlc/index.html This] confirms Lucas's date, being the 14th (right before E3...), and he's same price as Mewtwo. ...Figured I'd let you guys know. And yes, I put it in the article. [[File:Aidanzapunksignature.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Master of Speed and Aura'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 10:10, 5 June 2015 (EDT)
:Oh, and also, he's [http://www.smashbros.com/sp/us/characters/lucas.html up on the site now]. [[File:Aidanzapunksignature.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Master of Speed and Aura'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 10:14, 5 June 2015 (EDT)

== PK Freeze ignored Ness's PSI Magnet. ==

I can send the 3DS replay if anyone is interested. [[User:Blackbrass|Blackbrass]] ([[User talk:Blackbrass|talk]]) 13:25, 19 June 2015 (EDT)
:That would mean it isn't a projectile... was it like that in Brawl? Anyone feel like testing? <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:Nutta Butta|Nutta.]] </small>  13:54, 19 June 2015 (EDT)
::Might just be an issue of whether it's an [[absorption]]-enabled energy projectile. Also consider checking with Oil Panic and Absorbing Vortex. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 14:49, 19 June 2015 (EDT)

== Page still not editable? ==

My account is older than 4 days and I still can't edit this page. Any idea why? Is this fully protected? [[User:LifeMushroom|LifeMushroom]] ([[User talk:LifeMushroom|talk]]) 08:55, 22 June 2015 (EDT)
:[[SW:AUTO|Autoconfirmation]] takes 7 days and 10 edits, not 4 days. [[User:Zyrac|Zyrac]] ([[User talk:Zyrac|talk]]) 08:59, 22 June 2015 (EDT)

== 1.1 ==

I feel like this patch breaks the barrier of debate for whether Lucas got buffed or nerfed overall. He's definitely better after it. {{unsigned|45.37.25.25|16:40 10 August 2015 (EDT)}}
:He's certainly been buffed, but I'm not sure how well it addresses his flaws. We'll see if any new combos appear, which seems to be his most mixed bag. [[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: lime">'''Nyargle'''</span><span style="color: orange">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Nyargleblargle|Talk]]) 18:32, 10 August 2015 (EDT)

==Uh... I guess it could be called... Down throw glitch?==

Some of you may already know... Apparently, the unique position Lucas's down throw forces fighters into has a glitch relating to it. First saw it at Etika World Network. Here is the [https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3mfmkx/weird_lucas_dthrow_glitch/| original reddit post], as well as [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4fbaR2BlLs| the video]. Is it worth its own page? Maybe just a mention? Or nothing at all? [[User:Drill Blaster Mark 2|Drill Blaster Mark 2]] ([[User talk:Drill Blaster Mark 2|talk]]) 16:36, 6 October 2015 (EDT)
:It will probably get fixed in a patch. Other than being hilarious, nothing really of note. It has no competitive application, so at most will just get a trivia unless Nintendo specifically acknowledges it. Ask around, though. [[User:DekZek|<font color="Black">'''DekZek, '''</font><font color="Orange">'''The creature of your nightmares'''</font>]] [[File:Dekzeksig-Oct.png|23px|link=User talk:DekZek]] 16:44, 6 October 2015 (EDT)

== Lucas 3DS Home Stage? ==

This is something I've been wondering for a while. What happens if you encounter Lucas in 3DS Classic Mode when Ness has not been unlocked yet? Would the stage just be Battlefield or something? <b>[[User:john3637881|<span style="color: black;">John</span>]]</b> [[File:John3637881 Signature.png|20px]] <b>[[User talk:John3637881|<span style="color: red;">PK SMAAAASH!!</span>]]</b> 12:09, 4 November 2015 (EST)
:There are actually starter characters on 3DS whose home stages have to be unlocked, and that doesn't keep them from showing up in Classic. So I assume you would still get Magicant. [[User:Zyrac|Zyrac]] ([[User talk:Zyrac|talk]]) 12:16, 4 November 2015 (EST)
::What about in All Star? [[File:AidanzapunkSig1.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Wandering Space Warrior'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSig2.png|20px]] 12:19, 4 November 2015 (EST)

== Lucas Buff/Nerf debate ==

The community as a whole seems to agree that Lucas has been nerfed. In addition, his tournaments representation is very low, and his results are average as best.
Lucas's nair can be SDI'd (Super Smash Bros Wii U)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy_hpEcqXdc
Smash 4 Lucas's Design Flaws & Changes from Brawl
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKbLqoXfEns

In spite of his 10 extra frame grab release being fixed he received many nerfs. I don't understand why it is debatable whether he was nerfed. All of the proof points to him being nerfed, and unless future patches fix his issues, he'll stay that way. We could say that he was "slightly" nerfed, but its seems hardly debatable.[[User:Nightgengale|Nightgengale]] ([[User talk:Nightgengale|talk]]) 22:52, 15 January 2016 (EST)

:If you're going to open a discussion, don't be so quick to dismiss one side of the debate (i.e. the buffs). <font face="Papyrus">[[User:15DollarsWentSouth|<span style="color: darkblue;">'''15DollarsWentSouth'''</span>]]</font> 15:13, 16 January 2016 (EST)
::I think I agree with this. Besides the 10 extra frame grab release removal, he still maintains the majority of his Brawl flaws, his aerial game, approach, and landing abilities are even worse, many attacks do less damage, and even his most valuable finishers from Brawl have been weakened. On top of this and the general buffing of the cast, he lost a lot of ATs. On the other hand I can't pinpoint buffs. [[User:Ganonmew|<span style="color: green;">'''Ganonmew'''</span>]], [[User talk:Ganonmew|<span style="color:green;">'''The Evil Clone'''</span>]] 15:59, 16 January 2016 (EST)
:::I'm not going to claim to be a competitive expert or anything, but my impression was that the lack of his Brawl susceptibility to grab release combos was a major improvement. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Verdana;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 16:02, 16 January 2016 (EST)
::::In my completely casual experience, Lucas seems a lot weaker than he was in Brawl. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:DatNuttyKid|DatNuttyKid]].</small>  16:13, 16 January 2016 (EST)
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