Editing Talk:Lucario (SSBB)

==Unlockable?==
I'm putting this discussion both here and in the Jigglypuff article, since it concerns both Jigglypuff and Lucario. I know that it may be considered unorthodox to rely on Serebii.net; however, Serebii said this on the site: "As you can see, it has Pikachu, it has Pokemon Trainer and two others. They are Lucario & Jigglypuff. Both playable characters in Super Smash Bros. Brawl... '''How are they unlocked?''' Well you have to wait and see." It would seem Serebii let slip that both of them are unlockable. [[User:Teamrocketspy621|Teamrocketspy621]] 14:50, January 21, 2008 (EST)

If Lucario is the 'NEW' Mewtwo in Brawl, then wouldn't Lucario be unlockable, I think its very likely he will be. Plus Jigglypuff has always been an unlockable so it should be no different this time around right? <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:BigJohnno|BigJohnno]] ([[User talk:BigJohnno|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/BigJohnno|contribs]]) 09:57, 24 January 2008 (EST)</small>

:@TRS: I'd say we should await official confirmation before changing anything.
@BigJohnno: Seeing as how there's only be two entries in the SSB series thus far, we can't go around declaring any trends.  Just because Jigglypuff was unlockable in the first game doesn't mean that she will be for a third time. &ndash; [[User:EPX2|<b><i>EP</i></b>]] <small>([[User talk:EPX2|Talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/EPX2|Edits]])</small> 09:43, January 24, 2008 (EST)


I'm not saying it has to be unlockable I'm just guessing, the games coming out in Japan in a week anyway so we'll just wait and see.[[User:BigJohnno|BigJohnno]] <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:BigJohnno|BigJohnno]] ([[User talk:BigJohnno|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/BigJohnno|contribs]]) 01:44, 25 January 2008 (EST)</small>

I think it's safe to say Lucario, and anyone not "officially confirmed" on the dojo are not starters. Sakurai himself stated that everyone confirmed on the dojo at the moment (minus Snake and Sonic) are starters. So we can put Lucario as a unlockable/hidden character. ;) [[User:Johnknight1|Johnknight1]] 01:12, January 27, 2008 (EST)

==Dragon Pulse==
Actually I have a Lucario Lvl 100 which learnt Dragon Pulse at Lvl 47, by Lvling up, just look on Serebii.net. If you you really knew Lucario ''Crystal Lucario'', you would have known that.<small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:BigJohnno|BigJohnno]] ([[User talk:BigJohnno|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/BigJohnno|contribs]]) 08:13, 31 January 2008 (EST)</small>

-_- What I meant was when you think of it you wouldn;t go aura pokemon....hmmm...what can that learn...I know Aura Beam, Aura sphere and fighting moves. Most people just dont go lucario=dragonpulse. anway two things to say to you A dont add speculation B. Sign your posts!
[[User:Crystal lucario|~Crystal_Lucario]] 07:24, January 31, 2008 (EST)

You don't seem to know much About Pokemon, Crystal Lucario, there is no such thing as "Aura Beam". You're thinking of Aurora Beam, an ice type move based on the Northern Lights, The Aurora Borealis. Lucario doesn't even learn that move. Most likely it is either Dragon Pulse Flash Canon (Steel Type Projectyle), Focus Blast (Fighting Type Projectile), or, as the previous version suggested, Dragon Pulse.
~The Adder 10:34, January 31, 2008 (EST) <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:The Adder|The Adder]] ([[User talk:The Adder|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/The Adder|contribs]]) 10:34, 31 January 2008 (EST)</small>
:It's very likely either Focus Blast or Flash Cannon. Both are same-type attacks that do immense damage and would fit "giant death ray kamehamea".

OMG I don't read seribii all day and it can be tutored(?) or so I have heard and just stop adding all this junk.
[[User:Crystal lucario|~Crystal_Lucario]] 07:14, February 1, 2008 (EST)

:hey, you're all forgetting that ''Smash Bros'' is not a canon game. Sheik is not in ''Twilight Princess'', Ness never uses most of his PK moves in ''Earthbound'', and Goldeen isn't useless in Pokemon games. seriously, stop bickering. '''[[User:Silverdragon706|FyreNWater]]''' -  <small>([[User talk:Silverdragon706|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Silverdragon706|Contributions]] )</small> 07:16, February 1, 2008 (EST)
::And apparently Lucas doesn't use ANY of his PSI/PK Specials in Mother 3. At least Ness got PK Flash...Would it really have been so hard to make their specials "PK Rockin/Love"? Ah well.

Good point like pika's thunderjolt...
[[User:Crystal lucario|~Crystal_Lucario]] 07:57, February 1, 2008 (EST)

Nice save with that one FyreNWater. I should delete this section though....no real importance to it. Anyone disagree?--[[User:Oxico|Oxico]] 10:38, February 2, 2008 (EST)

:naw, i think talk pages stay as-is for future reference. this argument is bound to reappear... '''[[User:Silverdragon706|FyreNWater]]''' -  <small>([[User talk:Silverdragon706|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Silverdragon706|Contributions]] )</small> 19:35, February 2, 2008 (EST)

I wasnt wrong... new move...

[[User:Crystal lucario|~Crystal_Lucario]] 15:57, February 16, 2008 (EST)

== STOP FREAKIN SPECULATING ==

STOP FREAKIN SPECULATING ON MOVE NAMES I MEAN REALLY! YOU CANT SPECULATE THAT LUCARIO FINALSMASH IS AURASTORM LIKE ON THE TROPHY BUT YOU CAN ON SPECIAL MOVES???
[[User:Crystal lucario|~Crystal_Lucario]] 07:18, February 20, 2008 (EST)
:whoa, chill out. if anyone continues speculation, just report them to an admin. they'll take the steps to warn or temporary block them. '''[[User:Silverdragon706|FyreNWater]]''' -  <small>([[User talk:Silverdragon706|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Silverdragon706|Contributions]] )</small> 16:07, February 20, 2008 (EST)
::I thought everything was already being tentatively called by those names, my bad O_O *runs from wrath* [[User:BurningCrusader777|NeonCrusader]] 18:52, February 20, 2008 (EST)

== move names ==

see, now that Dojo released the official names, you can put them up. before that happens, ''do not speculate''. even if you heard that someone who played the game and translated it from Japanese, we still need the official word from Dojo/Nintendo before we go around making these changes. '''[[User:Silverdragon706|FyreNWater]]''' -  <small>([[User talk:Silverdragon706|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Silverdragon706|Contributions]] )</small> 03:29, February 28, 2008 (EST)

== Double team properties ==

I added a comment regarding Lucario's ability to double team and negate many final smashes. By negate, i mean it completely cancels it. Vs marth for example, it stops him dead in his tracks. I have written a guide on other websites detailing how to avoid many final smashes in the game. should i link to it from here?

1.)Sign your comment with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> 2.)Naw, just add some infromation on it on the page
[[User:Crystal_lucario|~Crystal]][[Image:Crystallucario.JPG]][[User Talk:Crystal_lucario|Lucario~]] [[User:Crystal_lucario/Event Mode|~Guardian of aura~]] [[User:Crystal_lucario/Sandbox|~Protector of the Sacred Crystals~]] 11:33, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

== The Strategies Section... ==

. . .really needs to be cleaned up. Half of the info is obvious, and the rest isn't that great. -Posted by [[User:Pikamander2|<span style="color:#007FFF">Pikamander2</span>]] [[User Talk:Pikamander2|<span style="color:#007FFF">(Talk)</span>]] at 17:28, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I reworded the strategies section so that it has more professional info in it.  I tried to add some actual strategies and tips to the obvious information so that it was actually strategies being posted, and I made it as gramatically correct as I know how to do.  Unfortunately, I am not a big Lucario player, but I frequently play against a friend who is a very skilled Lucario main.  That being said, my strategies may not be the best, so if someone can think of ways to improve on them, please do so. -Posted by Reaper Fan (Sorry about the signing, this is my first time on a talk page and I don't know all the patterns yet) <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Reaper Fan|Reaper Fan]] ([[User talk:Reaper Fan|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Reaper Fan|contribs]]) 05:05, 13 April 2008 (UTC)</small>

==Psychic Lucario???==
Lucario, despite being able to use Psychic in the Diamond and Pearl games, does not actually use telekinesis in any of its other appearances. This includes all throws, as well as its voice, which, in the movie, was shown to be one of the powers of Aura. - [[User:Gargomon251|Gargomon251]] 09:14, 27 April 2008 (UTC) 

I know what you're saying. I mean, even Electabuzz can learn Psychic.[[User:SonicROBTrainer|SonicROBTrainer]] ([[User talk:SonicROBTrainer|talk]]) 00:56, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

In the anime, Psychic and Confusion, when used by a non-Psychic type, tends to be shown as a wave of Psychic energy rather than a telekinetic grip.

:In the anime, Water Gun is as powerful as a fire hose. What's your point? - [[User:Gargomon251|Gargomon251]] ([[User talk:Gargomon251|talk]]) 23:14, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

== Tier ==
What do you think will Lucario's tier be? <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:91.54.112.74|91.54.112.74]] ([[User talk:91.54.112.74|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/91.54.112.74|contribs]]) 09:28, 3 May 2008 (UTC)</small> 

Mid or High.  Most likely High.  [[User:Rexdawn|Rexdawn]] 19:34, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

High? I'm leaning more towards middle. - [[Special:Contributions/70.253.174.246|70.253.174.246]] 23:00, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I say high, but not near the top of it.
==Recruiting==
'''OK all who are willing. I need lots of help. I need all the moveset to look all alike. I need people willing to help! If you choose to accept this challenge, use [[Meta Knight (SSBB)|Meta Knight]]'s moveset as a perfect example. If you want to help the cause, leave your username under the category on my userpage called "Recruiting". This message is also there. Let's fix these movesets.''' --[[User:Oxico|Oxico]] ([[User talk:Oxico|talk]]) 20:49, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

==He==
LISTEN to it's voice. He is obviously a boy. And by the way, Pokemon are NOT genderless. Pick up a Game Boy and find out. I'm gonna go through and fix all that. --[[User:Oxico|Oxico]] 
:Nintendo's official policy is that all Pokémon go by gender neutral pronouns regardless of sex. All text refer to them in this way in all the games and official-related materials. Pokémon may have SEXES but they do NOT have genders.  Sex and gender are not he same. "Sex" refers to reproductive organs, "gender" is how one is interpreted by society. In this case, society is Nintendo, and according to Nintendo all Pokémon are gender neutral. In order to keep this wiki professional looking we have to stay consistent with the game's officially-related materials. Granted, Snake's codec as well as one of the event descriptions do call Lucario "he", BUT the trophy descriptions, the "Dojo!!" site and all other officially-related materials say "it". Plus, the two uses of "he" aren't being ignored-- they're mentioned on [[Lucario (SSBB)#Trivia|Lucario (SSBB)'s trivia section]]. --[[User:Bman87301|Bman87301]] ([[User talk:Bman87301|talk]]) 23:41, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

::Guess what?Pokemon are both, in games, the anime itself it is shown multiple times that the same Pokemon species can have both genders(there are some exception but they are VERY specific and Lucario has none)So we call Lucario an "it".And voice is not everything many people have voices which SOUND like the opposite gender but is completely opinion based on that. - [[User:Hatake91|Hatake91]] ([[User talk:Hatake91|talk]]) 23:48, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

:::I'm pretty sure Lucario is strongly a "he", as mentioned by [[Solid Snake (SSBB)|Solid Snake]] with his [[Snake's Codec Messages|Snake's Codec Message]]. He's the same Lucario from the movie "Pokémon: Lucario and The Mystery of Mew", while the other one from the cartoons howver, is'nt, because he grunts, rather than talk. Still, he is indeed a tough character to battle. [[User:MetaCracken|MetaCracken]] ([[User talk:MetaCracken|talk]]) 15:38, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

::::I think that it says "it" refer to all Lucario in general whilst the "he-parts" are about the fighter.

I'm following the Codec and calling Lucario a boy. [[User:Solar flute|Solar flute]] ([[User talk:Solar flute|talk]]) 01:21, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

There is a slight flaw with him being from the film, as at the end of said film, lucario Dies form expending all his power...--[[User:Pantstall|Pantstall]] ([[User talk:Pantstall|talk]]) 10:11, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
:The ''Smash'' series is not canon with any other series. If it was then there would be slightly bigger problems than Lucario's gender. For example, how would you explain:
:*Rayquaza is a vegetarian in the Pokémon series but in the SSE he clearly want to eat Diddy Kong.
:*Ridly was transformed into Meta Ridly after Samus defeats it in the Metroid series, but in the SSE you have to fight normal Ridly then Meta Ridly, then in the Great Maze you've got to fight them both again, implying that he was transformed back into Ridly for the SSE, then transformed back to Meta Ridly again, then once more to Ridly, before finally returning to being Meta Ridly.
:*Porky Minch appears in the SSE in his Spider Mech, even though the Spider Mech was broken by Lucas, Kumatora, Duster and Boney at the end of ''Mother 3'' and Porky himself was entombed in the "Absolutely Safe Machine" with his broken Spider Mech.
:*In the Pikmin games, Olimar is an inch tall, but in ''Brawl'' he's the same height as Pikachu, who's 1'4" (sixteen inches tall) in the Pokémon series.
:There are so many bigger discontinuities that you can't use the fact that the Lucario that appeared in the film can't also be the one in ''Brawl'' because that Lucario died. Compared to all the other discontinuities (particularly the Olimar one), it's not enough to be able to prove that it's not that Lucario, especially seeing as all the other evidence says otherwise. '''''<span style="font-family:Arial;">[[User:PenguinofDeath|<font color="silver">Penguin</font>]][[User talk:PenguinofDeath|<font color="gray">of</font>]][[Special:Contributions/PenguinofDeath|<font color="silver">Death</font>]]</span>''''' 11:48, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

== Home-run contest ==

Lucario seems to be at a significant disadvantage during Home-Run Contest, due to having 0% damage. Are there any special tactics that can be used? [[User:Vimescarrot|<font color="darkred">JalYt-Xil-Vimescarrot</font>]] 15:26, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Spam down smash. - [[User:Hatake91|Hatake91]] ([[User talk:Hatake91|talk]]) 13:53, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

==aura==
about this descution on the aura problems.  What needs to be done is just one section, and a small part in the opening, explaining all the properties of his aura, such as how much is bosts by per % taken, and what moves are affected by it.  It also needs a techniques part, to explain how to use his attacks and how to survive at higher damage, like the other charictors have. [[User:rebelpyro|<span style="color:black">rebel</span> <span style="color:red">pyro</span>]][[User Talk:rebelpryo|<small><sup><span style="color:purple">TALK</span></sup></small>]]

== main picture off center ==

The main picture of Lucario is not centered. [[User:Zixor|Zixor]] ([[User talk:Zixor|talk]]) 20:22, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

== Oversimplification of competitive metagame-focused entries ==

I realize that my first edit on the "Attributes" section had too much text in it, but really, the new entry is no better than old ones.  How are readers supposed to understand detailed usage of the character if all they're getting are "this special can do this, this special can do that?"  I mean, yeah, there's a few things here and there about basic moves, but there should be some way of describing potent strategies to people looking to learn about characters in the game.  These aren't meant to be FAQs, yes; it's just that it can't hurt to have a little more detail present in these sections.

These Wikia projects are supposed to be collections of all the detailed, useful knowledge existing for each individual entry, and naturally Smashers looking up fighter pages will want to know how the character fares at high-levels of competitive play, with the greatest amount of detail that we can realistically provide while maintaining readability.  Perhaps I'm simply saying all this in favor of my prior entry, but really, isn't there a better way to edit down that info so as to make good on the goal of this site?

[[User:GdDmt|GdDmt]] ([[User talk:GdDmt|talk]]) 06:44, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Wow, months later and the attributes section is still looking bad.  It even has some relatively erroneous information, like how dash attack and Double Team are good combo starters (it's true that the low knockback of dash attack can be useful, but the move is so easily shield-grabbed it's not even funny).  I'm not going to bother pasting my old edit onto this, but I suggest users taking a peek back to that early January entry just to see how much more informative the Lucario page once was. [[User:GdDmt|GdDmt]] ([[User talk:GdDmt|talk]]) 08:26, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
:I suggest that if you want something done your way, you do it yourself.  [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 17:26, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

== Mewtwo's clone ==

To the person who undid my edit about Lucario being Mewtwo's clone, You're wrong. Mewtwo and Lucario's moves are almost exactly the same, Shadow Ball and Aura sphere, Teleport and Extremespeed.--[[User:Murphyshane|Murphyshane]] ([[User talk:Murphyshane|talk]]) 16:02, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
:he has a point but clones can only be in the same game --[[User:Pokhmon|Pokhmon]] ([[User talk:Pokhmon|talk]]) 16:34, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
::Not always --[[User:Murphyshane|Murphyshane]] ([[User talk:Murphyshane|talk]]) 19:35, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
:::Guys, they really only have ''similar'' special attacks, and that's about it. Their regular ground attacks are VERY different. Seriously, they aren't clones nor semi-clones, [[Clones#Cross-Gen|they aren't listed as one.]] <span style="font-family:Harlow Solid Italic;">[[User:HavocReaper48|<font color="cyan">Havoc</font>]][[User talk:HavocReaper48|<font color="navy">Reaper</font>]][[w:c:ssb:User:HavocReaper48/Emoticonology|<span style='color="darkblue"'>48</span>]]</span> 03:09, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm. You've proven your point--[[User:Murphyshane|Murphyshane]] ([[User talk:Murphyshane|talk]]) 21:11, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

The one you are referring to is me. Lucario actually uses a different fighting style similar to a martial arts he developed. Visible differences include palm and foot strikes where as Mewtwo would use his tail. The only thing that would be similar to Mewtwo would be Aura Sphere beacuse it looks the same. His move arsenal may be similar in a fashion with the Aura and Mewtwo would use Darkness, but things that are noticable is that Extremespeed is completely visible and has move of a curvature where as Mewtwo would not be able to be hit, invisible, and is a lot faster. Just compare his entire movset to Lucario's and you should see the significant difference. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Zoa The Guide Of Hell|Zoa The Guide Of Hell]] ([[User talk:Zoa The Guide Of Hell|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Zoa The Guide Of Hell|contribs]]) </small>

please sign your comments.[[Special:Contributions/24.12.118.50|24.12.118.50]] 21:49, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

== WHY? ==

LOOK AT THE PAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!--[[User:Tabuu123|Tabuu123]] ([[User talk:Tabuu123|talk]]) 21:47, September 6, 2010 (UTC)
:We can notice vandalism fine without that kind of talk page comment. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Data Node|Data Node]] 21:51, September 6, 2010 (UTC)

== Caps at 170% ==

Nearly every single move listed on the moveset says that it's damage caps at 170%. There are very few exceptions, and the damage cap is noted at the top of the page. This adds to the redundancy of the page. I am going to reword the moveset, explaining explicity when the damage cap is only when it's a percent other than 170. [[User:MtnDewholic|<font color="red">Mtn</font><font color="green">Dewholic</font>]] [[User talk:MtnDewholic|<font color="teal">9000</font>]][[File:PokemonSymbol.svg|25px]] 21:16, 30 July 2011 (EDT)
:The reason for the redundancy was because it was originally written that each move had is own individual cap, stating wacko things like 167% or 172%. I did a quick runthrough to get rid of the wrong info but didn't have enough time to remove the redundancy. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Eggster 22:31, 30 July 2011 (EDT)
::It's alright, I've rectified the issue. [[User:MtnDewholic|<font color="red">Mtn</font><font color="green">Dewholic</font>]] [[User talk:MtnDewholic|<font color="teal">9000</font>]][[File:PokemonSymbol.svg|25px]] 22:37, 30 July 2011 (EDT)

==I'm quite astounded==
I tested aura-based moves with Lucario at 180% and 5 points behind the current leader. Under these conditions, they inflict even more damage than tourney conditions. I've seen with my own eyes that forward smash inflicts 40-42%, putting King Dedede's f-smash to shame. Up smash can inflict 35%, effectively bearing comparison with the likes of Lucas and Ivysaur's respective up smashes. Down smash can inflict a maximum of 37%. Down aerial could inflict 30% cumulative damage. Forward throw inflicts a whopping 19%! These are just a few examples. I'd propose that this page havee readings edited for better accuracy, but it's quite unlikely that 5 points behind in a match and 180% accumulated damage will occur in a match, espec its damagially in tourneys, no? [[Special:Contributions/97.67.160.226|97.67.160.226]] 11:27, 30 June 2012 (EDT)
:Yes, the numbers on this page need work. The numerical physics of how the lead affects aura are still somewhat unknown. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Spectrum 14:50, 30 June 2012 (EDT)

== Anther ==

Should Anther be in the Notable Players section? [[Special:Contributions/84.92.35.200|84.92.35.200]] 17:15, 18 May 2013 (EDT)
:Did he do significant things with Lucario? Just being a highly notable player that occasionally plays the character is not enough to get listed in the "notable players" section. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 18:57, 18 May 2013 (EDT)
::Probably not, I was just asking, but thanks anyway [[Special:Contributions/84.92.35.200|84.92.35.200]] 09:26, 19 May 2013 (EDT)

== Some misleading information. ==

There appears to be some incorrect information regarding the caps of Lucario's aura based moves at 170%. When highlighting the sections where it shows the aura damages, it gives incorrect information regarding the base damages of moves when at 0% and 170% and tied in stock. Such as when highlighting the fully charged forward smash, it shows 22.4% when sweetspotted and fully charged. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:96.254.172.63|96.254.172.63]] ([[User talk:96.254.172.63|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/96.254.172.63|contribs]]) 16:08, 6 July 2013 (EDT)</small>
:Indeed it is incorrect to note fully-charged smash power like this. I'll fix it. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Celeritous 16:10, 6 July 2013 (EDT)
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