Editing Talk:List of spirits (complete list)

Duplicate of what page? [[File:MarthHeadRedSSBMythfhgghf.png]] [[User:Thomasgamer4000|Thomasgamer4000]] 11:31, 1 February 2019 (EST)

== Amiibos? ==
Might I suggest including a column to show which Spirits can be obtained via Amiibo?

---Nevermind, I just saw that there is already an Amiibo column, it's just blocked by the ads and there is no scroll bar.

== against deletion ==
This is incredibly useful because its the best (only?) way to compare spirits across series, types, class, and method of obtaining. If you want something more specific you can go to a series page. However, if you want to compare, say, all weight down spirits, this is currently the simplest (only?) way of doing this. I'm ''Strongly'' against deletion. [[User:Flibety|Flibety]] ([[User talk:Flibety|talk]]) 13:53, April 17, 2019 (EDT)


== um ==

Nothing is on here [[User:Whuhgg|Whuhgg]] ([[User talk:Whuhgg|talk]]) 22:34, 2 February 2019 (EST)

==Uhh==
Is this page really necessary? We have single pages for every single spirit already, and it's the same as the Melee trophy page. [[User:SugarCookie420|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman"><span style="color: red;">SugarCookie</span></span>]] [[User talk:SugarCookie420|<span style="font-family:Impact"><span style="color: green;">420</span></span>]] 22:25, March 22, 2019 (EDT)
:I have to agree, this page is largely unnecessary; I'd argue it's even ''more'' unnecessary than the Melee trophy page, solely because of the sheer number of Spirits. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: green;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: green;">'''the Irish Rurouni'''</span>]] 18:44, March 29, 2019 (EDT)
:If the Melee trophy list was removed because of duplicate information, I don't see why this shouldn't either. The complete sticker list would also have to be deleted, since it's the only reason this page was made to begin with. [[File:NokiiSig.png|link=User_talk:Nokii]] '''[[User:Nokii|{{color|#89d|Nokii}}]]''' —  20:50, March 29, 2019 (EDT)
::The problem with deleting the list of Stickers is that it is (currently) the only page that lists them. They arn't separated by series like the Trophies and Spirits. The complete list Spirits does seem largely unnecessary. [[User:Wolff|&#32;Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 00:27, March 30, 2019 (EDT)
::::[[Template:Sticker list|They actually are]]. [[File:NokiiSig.png|link=User_talk:Nokii]] '''[[User:Nokii|{{color|#89d|Nokii}}]]''' —  00:42, March 30, 2019 (EDT)
:::::Oh. I had not found the [[List_of_stickers_(disambiguation)|disambiguation]] page for the stickers before. My bad. The full lists for stickers and Spirits does seem unnecessary then. [[User:Wolff|&#32;Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 01:43, March 30, 2019 (EDT)
::::::Offering counterpoint, I do agree that the information is repeated but these lists offer something that the separate can't, which is to compare and contrast a single entry against the whole rest instead of going universe by universe. In case someone is looking for the spirit with the most defense, or all the available 2 slot supports in the game or all the stickers that apply to a certain character. In the end, listing all for the sake of listing is unnecessary, but with the right additional info it's an index valued by some people and a reason to keep coming back to find something useful and helpful to them. [[User:GamblerMario|GamblerMario]] ([[User talk:GamblerMario|talk]]) 00:47, March 31, 2019 (EDT)
:::::::Upon looking at it a ''second'' time, the full list of Spirits can be quite useful for obtaining the basic info for them. Like knowing all the ones that can or can't be obtained by a certain method, or like what [[User:GamblerMario|GamblerMario]] mentioned. Trophies were just collectables. Spirits are more than just collectables, and have more ways of collecting and using them than the stickers did (being used in WoL). A full list of trophies or stickers seems redundant, but I find that a full list of Spirits is actually useful. The individual Spirits pages has info of the Spirit Battles, so there are reasons to have both. [[User:Wolff|&#32;Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 01:34, March 31, 2019 (EDT)

I '''oppose''' deletion, because I actually used this once to see which Spirits were available in WoL, so this page can be useful. [[User:Awesomelink234|<span style="font-size:10pt;background:#00FF20;border:outset #083 2px;padding:1px 3px;color:#050DF7">Awesomelink234, the Super Cool Sonic Fan</span>]] [[User talk:Awesomelink234|Leave a message if needed]] 15:15, April 3, 2019 (EDT)
:Still, you can just use our list of spirits instead. [[User:SugarCookie420|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman"><span style="color: red;">SugarCookie</span></span>]] [[User talk:SugarCookie420|<span style="font-family:Impact"><span style="color: green;">420</span></span>]] 15:16, April 3, 2019 (EDT)
::Again, not all at once. [[User:GamblerMario|GamblerMario]] ([[User talk:GamblerMario|talk]]) 17:42, April 9, 2019 (EDT)
:::There's no need to. If you know what series it's from, then just look it up there. If not, then you can just look it up on our wiki and it can redirect you there. Finally, if this page is to be kept, then that makes all the other spirit pages completely useless, and those should be deleted instead. It's one or the other, and since this page is gigantic and the other option is more efficient, I believe it's best to delete this page. [[User:SugarCookie420|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman"><span style="color: red;">SugarCookie</span></span>]] [[User talk:SugarCookie420|<span style="font-family:Impact"><span style="color: green;">420</span></span>]] 17:47, April 9, 2019 (EDT)
::::If we do not have the "Full list of Spirits", then we should make a few other pages. We already have a list for [[Master Spirit|Master Spirits]] and one for [[Summon|Summons]]. In the case for Summon, it states whether or not it is also obtainable from other means. We should make pages for those that can only be obtained though Enhancing (or those that can enhance) and the Spirit Board. We do not need one for those only obtainable from WoL as only the Boss Spirits and Master Spirits. Those that can only be obtained though Shopping in WoL are listed in [[Shopping]]. [[User:Wolff|&#32;Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 00:38, April 11, 2019 (EDT)

::::We also have a page for all the [[Spirits with overworld effects]] in WoL. [[User:Wolff|&#32;Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 00:47, April 11, 2019 (EDT)
:::::This page is important, as it provides a complete list of spirits by number. Other pages are nice when you care about spirits by series, but when you're playing the game itself you want a list by number, as that is how your collection is sorted. To that end, I think this page should be kept, but under the title "List of spirits by number".
:::::However, I think it would be better to also have a "List of Primary Spirits" and "List of Support Spirits" (or even just pages [[Primary Spirit]] and [[Support Spirit]], with lists on those pages), where their attributes can be listed (Class, Type, Slots, Attack, Defense, and Skill/Trait); those properties are not applicable to all spirits, so shouldn't be listed on this page. The current lists by series are not sufficient for that kind of information, as they don't allow you to sort by these properties across the full list of spirits that exist in the game. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 05:13, April 14, 2019 (EDT)
::::::We now have a page (though currently incomplete) for [[Enhanceable spirit|Enhanceable Spirits]]. I still say we should at least make a a page or section with a list for Spirits that are exclusive to the Spirit Board. [[User:Wolff|&#32;Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 15:17, April 25, 2019 (EDT)

'''Strong Oppose''' This lets people who don't know which spirit the universe comes from to instantly search without guessing which universe it comes from. [[:User:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164{{#if:|_({{{3}}})}}|ZeldaStarfoxfan2164]] ([[User talk:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|talk]]) is bad for me  01:00, May 13, 2019 (EDT)
:It’s 1300 spirits. Nobody will find anything that way. I understand where you’re coming from though. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 01:44, May 13, 2019 (EDT)
::There's this thing called "Control/Command F" by the way. [[:User:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164{{#if:|_({{{3}}})}}|ZeldaStarfoxfan2164]] ([[User talk:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|talk]]) is bad for me  16:22, May 13, 2019 (EDT)
:::I also strongly oppose the deletion of this page. This is because, while all spirits may be listed elsewhere, the fact that you can sort the table makes this page a powerful index. Need to find out the name of that one spirit you're missing on the spirit list? Sort by number. Need to find out which spirits are in world of light? Sort by "World of light". If you want to only look at support spirits, sort by "Spirit type"! If I might be so bold, I'll even suggest that the list of spirits by series should be deleted, as it does the same thing as this list, except it's fragmented into multiple parts. [[User:Mogo|Mogo]] ([[User talk:Mogo|talk]]) 07:49, June 10, 2019 (EDT)

== Deletion? Why? ==

I seriously do not see how deleting this page could help anyone. It's awesome to have a hub page for such a huge category of information, complete with a brief summary of each one, their types, abilities, and more. The fact that it's a duplicate is a no-brainer. I ''strongly'' disagree with this page's deletion.

[[User:CMWAidanx|CMWAidanx]] ([[User talk:CMWAidanx|talk]]) 12:40, April 28, 2019 (EDT)
:Because:
:#It's a very large page, and is quite hard to navigate through.
:#Given the fact that we [[List of spirits (disambiguation)|already have spirits sorted by series]], this page is made redundant. This is the same reason why the Melee trophy list page got deleted, because we didn't have a need for it.
:[[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 15:44, April 28, 2019 (EDT)
:Aidan said perfectly. There is already a detailed and more navigable list of the spirits that also tells of their stats and if they're attack, defense, or grab. I '''support''' deletion as this list is a duplicate and is redundant through another page that is more detailed and leads to more information.
:[[User:El&#39;s Bladeworks|Eletro]] ([[User talk:El&#39;s Bladeworks|talk]]) 20:52, June 17, 2019 (EDT)

I'd like to weigh in as well: I don't think Spirits are comparable to trophies, at least not in this regard. Trophies have three things about them: their name, their description, and the games they're from; and none of those are things you would want to compare between because for the most part they're all different. Spirits have gameplay implications, and without this page if you wanted to compare every "Trade-Off Attack" spirit you'd need to Ctrl+F thirty seperate pages and switch between them looking for the highest number. I think that's absurdly inconvenient. [[User:Ahemtoday|Ahemtoday]] ([[User talk:Ahemtoday|talk]]) 16:53, June 23, 2019 (EDT)

The information may be available elsewhere, but the way it's presented is completely unique to this page. I used this page just now to see how many primary or support spirits there are, which isn't easily found without this page. Plus this is the only page where you can find out EVERY way to obtain EVERY spirit. If anything, this page makes those other pages irrelevant. It doesn't though, because those pages serve a different purpose. This is an incredibly useful page and it seems silly to delete it just because "the information can be found elsewhere". [[Special:Contributions/68.78.44.77|68.78.44.77]] 01:22, June 29, 2019 (EDT)
:I see what you’re talking about, but this page can’t even load on my phone because it’s so huge. I don’t know how fast this page loads for anybody else, but it’s a bad sign if the page doesn’t load on mobile, which is what a lot of people use nowadays. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 03:54, June 29, 2019 (EDT)

I '''oppose''' the deletion on the grounds that it provides something that a lot of people here appear to be overlooking. It is the only page which has all spirits in numerical order, making it the most useful for locating spirits by number. No other page we have does this. ''[[User:Trainer Alex|<span style="color: blue;">'''Alex'''</span>]] the [[User talk:Trainer Alex|<span style="color: red;">'''Jigglypuff trainer'''</span>]]'' 09:55, July 1, 2019 (EDT)

I personally prefer having all the spirits in one place in an easy to navigate way. Also to fix the mobile issue if you scroll down to the bottom and click desktop view the list loads just fine. I think what it really comes down to is personal preference some people prefer to have it organized by series while others prefer just a giant list. [[User:HarryTehDerp|HarryTehDerp]] ([[User talk:HarryTehDerp|talk]]) 00:46, July 10, 2019 (EST)

== Rename to "by number" ==

'''Big huge disagree.''' "List of spirits by number" does not convey that the purpose of the page is being a complete list. Also I read that title and immediately think "that's a Bulbapedia title, not a SmashWiki title"; it doesn't fit with how all our other lists are "List of X (specifically these ones)". [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Irrepressible 22:48, July 20, 2019 (EDT)
:'''That's gonna be a no from me, dawg.''' [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 22:59, July 20, 2019 (EDT)
::'''Eh, not crazy about it.''' The defining characteristic of this article isn't that the spirits are sorted by number - I mean, you can re-sort them any way you want. The defining characteristic of this article is that it is ''all'' the spirits in one space. [[User:Ahemtoday|Ahemtoday]] ([[User talk:Ahemtoday|talk]]) 21:16, July 21, 2019 (EDT)
:'''Hell no'''. Just because that's the big mileage of the page doesn't mean that should be made immediately apparent in the title. - [[User:EndGenuity|EndGenuity]] ([[User talk:EndGenuity|talk]]) 21:18, July 21, 2019 (EDT)

== Properties only relevant to some spirits ==

The table on this page is currently dominated by many properties that only apply to a minority of spirits (primary spirits, and occasionally, support spirits). This information is now available on the pages [[primary spirit]] and [[support spirit]] instead. As such, I don't think it's necessary to maintain it on this page, where it only serves to clutter an already large table. [[Special:Diff/1290319|This revision]] shows how much cleaner the page would look with only information applicable to all spirits (or almost all in the case of class).

I had hoped that the benefits of splitting the information off of this page would be fairly obvious, but evidently {{user|Trainer Alex}} opposes this change. As such, I would be interested to hear other people's opinions (especially Alex's) about whether they think the category-specific information should be present on this page. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 07:47, September 8, 2019 (EDT)

:Though I agree some data entries only serve to bloat the table and we are best off redirecting readers looking for Attack/Defense stats and such to the pages you've linked, I feel like a case might be made for keeping some categories omitted in your revision.  The distinction of having a spirit battle without being available on the Spirit Board, for instance, is important for clearing up any potential confusion on the availability of Master spirits, while "Series" should be kept for informational indexing purposes. [[User:DevNode|DevNode]] ([[User talk:DevNode|talk]]) 23:25, September 27, 2019 (EDT)
::I actually added Series and the Spirit Battle columns in [[Special:Diff/1290342|an edit]] after that revision. I definitely think they should be on this page, even after removing the content that's been split to other pages. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 03:26, September 28, 2019 (EDT)

:This is useful to sort all the spirits by those stats. For instnace, this page allows players to get an answer to the question ''Which Neutral spirit has the biggest attack stat at maximum level?'' (it's The Mighty Jinjonator with 6699). [[User:YoshiRyu|YoshiRyu]] ([[User talk:YoshiRyu|talk]]) 11:36, November 29, 2019 (EST)

== Bayonetta 1006 and 1007 ==
I think 1006 and 1007 might be switched. 1006 is '''Bayonetta (Bayonetta 2)'''. I don't have 1007, so I'm not sure what that one is. [[Special:Contributions/12.203.51.202|12.203.51.202]] 14:25, December 12, 2019 (EST)
:Indeed. Bayo 2 is the default skin and 1006th spirit, while Bayo 1 is the alternate skin and the 1007th spirit. Fixed if. Thank you. [[User:YoshiRyu|YoshiRyu]] ([[User talk:YoshiRyu|talk]]) 14:56, December 12, 2019 (EST)

== Power columns ==

I am new to this, so I regrettably didn't think to ask here first before creating the minimum and maximum power columns. I love the existence of this page, but it didn't feel complete without columns which sort by the spirits' power. There wasn't a straightforward way to do this without creating a separate column, so I personally went through and input the min. and max. power for every primary spirit. Feel free to argue against me here, especially considering the fact that I did this without permission, but I feel like this would be a great addition to this already spectacular compendium. The data are taken from the spirit lists by series on this site, and I am currently going through and verifying each entry again (unless another set of eyes would like to do this). Sorting the spirits by their power is useful if one would like to know such information (which is the purpose of this page, is it not?). I'll apologize again for this sudden move, and if any of you of higher authority aren't fond of the addition, I won't be hurt if you restore an earlier version. I would appreciate any kind of feedback nonetheless, and I'll be sure to come here before doing anything major again.

[[User:Mrtas|Mrtas]] ([[User talk:Mrtas|talk]]) 22:57, December 23, 2019 (EST)

== Removing the center aligns ==

Do we really need to have <code>align=center</code> for every cell for the obtaining methods? I did the math and removing them would decrease the page size by over 126k bytes, 25% decrease. The page is already huge (in bytes and size), so I think we should take any optimization that we can. Here is an [https://i.imgur.com/v7WjySm.png image] of the change.--[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User_talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 19:29, April 24, 2020 (EDT)
:bump --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 11:42, April 26, 2020 (EDT)
:It's nicer when centered, but 126kb is a lot. I think nobody will give you any feedback on that proposition because, first, I don't think this page is followed by a lot of people, and secondly, it's hard to argue that "nice" is worth 126kb. At this point, it looks like something that should be rather decided by an administrator. As for me, I can only say that it's nicer when centered, but I can't just decide that it's worth those 126kb. [[User:YoshiRyu|YoshiRyu]] ([[User talk:YoshiRyu|talk]]) 17:00, April 26, 2020 (EDT)
::I won't disagree that it looks nicer. <s>I feel that it might help with the load times if my understanding is correct.</s> I did some quick testing looking at the "parser profiling data" when doing a preview and I didn't see any significant difference. The page loaded 2 seconds faster... off of 55 seconds so not much (could have been caused by anything and loading the page normally is not 55 seconds). Post-expand size, node count, and everything else was the same, so I imagine when the page is converted to HTML it is smart about it.
::Would be nice to have a solution to make it load faster. <s>Another idea I had was to merge the empty cells vertically instead of horizontally since that could go through more rows without a support/primary breaking the chain. But I haven't checked if that would save bytes or not and I have no way to tell if it would decrease load times.</s> --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 17:42, April 26, 2020 (EDT)
:::<small>Small update. My last idea would end up taking more bytes. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 18:08, April 26, 2020 (EDT)</small>

== Unobtainable spirits ==

I've been on a quest to obtain all 1512 spirits in the game, and I'm currently at 1487. But, I noticed that spirits 1491 through 1496 have never showed up, despite the wiki saying they appear on the Spirit Board. I still occasionally come across new spirits on the Spirit Board after reshuffling a few times, but the fact that these 6 in a row have never showed up is suspicious. According to this page, they were spirits released to celebrate Mario Golf: Super Rush and No More Heroes, so is it possible that after their release, they were never rereleased? I have the Metroid Dread spirits, and they still pop up long after the event ended, but is that only because I obtained them during the event? In short, there's nothing on the wiki that mentions this, if it is true. [[User:Baba booey1111|Baba booey1111]] ([[User talk:Baba booey1111|talk]]) 15:43, November 18, 2021 (EST)
:Spirits that are part of events get put in the normal rotation after a while, typically 4 months but there's some variation. For example, [[Ready? Wallop!]] was held in February 2020 and its spirits were made available outside of the event in June 2020 (roughly 4 months). Mario Golf: Super Rush and No More Heroes were held at the beginning and end of August 2021, so you can expect to see them reappear in December 2021. If you've gotten a spirit from an event already, then they will continue to show up on the Spirit Board (which is why you see Metroid Dread spirits); it'd be annoying if you get a spirit, dismiss it, then have to wait months to get it again. I believe we do mention stuff like this on the respective event and series pages, but only after they happen. It is somewhat implied by "Any spirits that appear in the Spirit Board but also have a different method of obtaining ... will not appear on the Spirit Board until unlocked by the alternate way", with "alternate way" being the even, though it could be reworded. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 15:59, November 18, 2021 (EST)

== missing: enhancement info ==

should include which spirits spirits are enhanced to <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:116.88.190.251|116.88.190.251]] ([[User talk:116.88.190.251|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/116.88.190.251|contribs]]) 18:50, December 12, 2021 (EST)</small>
:Every enhanceable spirit except for Rex turns into the spirit immediately after it by number order. If anything we do rollover text, any other idea I can think of would take up the already cluttered space. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 19:03, December 12, 2021 (EST)
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