Editing Talk:List of rumors

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==Cleanup==
With this clean start, I'd like to bump the [[Forum:Major overhaul for "List of rumors"|cleanup project]] that got unanimous approval but no real progress. To recap: '''Rumors should only be listed once they are disproven''', '''rumors should be written about from an objective, neutral standpoint with emphasis on citations''', '''only the most notable rumors should be added.''' None of the Bigby Wolf or "Does not perform well in Autumn" nonsense. I'd like to get a discussion rolling on which entries are fit to take out, but I think it's a good time to move ahead with this. ~ [[User:Serena Strawberry|<span style="color: #e68;">'''Serena Strawberry'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Serena Strawberry|talk]]) 20:37, May 10, 2020 (EDT)

==[https://www.inverse.com/gaming/smash-ultimate-ssbu-dlc-leaks-fighter-pass-2-arms-waluigi This rumor inverse said about an anonymous 4chan user...]==
...claims that Spring Man is the ARMS character. His reveal trailer seems to take place after Incineroar’s. Is this worthy of being on the list? [[User:Son Daniel|<span style="font-family: Arial;color:red;">SonDaniel</span>]][[File:SonDanielSignatureHead1.png|20px]][[File:SonDanielSignatureHead2.png|20px]] ([[User talk:Son Daniel|talk page]]) 22:35, May 23, 2020 (EDT)
: No. Sorry. Reminder: this is all speculation and this was a 4Chan thread with no credibility. --[[User:Tailikku|Tailikku]] ([[User talk:Tailikku|talk]]) 17:20, May 25, 2020 (EDT)
: Addendum: It wouldn't matter anyway since the trailer was for Min Min and never took place after Ken/Incineroar.--[[User:Tailikku|Tailikku]] ([[User talk:Tailikku|talk]]) 19:24, June 24, 2020 (EDT)

==Cleanup vol.1: ''Ultimate''==
Taking note of Serena Strawberry's cleanup project for this page, some editors including Serena and myself have taken note of which rumours in the ''Ultimate'' section are fit for removal. After discussing what contributes to making these rumors fit for removal while considering the principles proposed above by Serena, these are the rumours we have decided should probably be removed:
*The Loz18 rumour
*The NeoGAF rumour
*The amiibo unlock rumour
*The 4chan render rumour
*The Japanese Fighter Playlist rumour
*The Adeleine rumour
*The 5channel rumour
*The IAmShifty and PapaGenos rumours
*The Sakurai Fighter 5 rumours
*All three rumours in the Fighters Pass 2 section (MandyCan, LoL, Ubisoft Club)

While I am recording this here more so for documentation purposes, and we are pretty certain these articles are fine for removal, whether they should be kept or not is a matter of open discussion. [[User:Acgamer28|<span style="font-family:Courier;color:blue">'''Acgamer'''</span>]][[User talk:Acgamer28|<span style="font-family:Courier;color:red">'''28'''</span>]][[File:Acgamer28SignatureHead.png|20px]] 00:14, June 24, 2020 (EDT)
:'''Partial Support''' For Adeleine, is guessing Hero and his alts and Banjo right big enough? I remember Dante being a popular rumor with Fighter 5, the one about Crash can be removed though. --[[User:Meester Tweester|Meester Tweester]] ([[User talk:Meester Tweester|talk]]) 01:27, June 24, 2020 (EDT)
::I was initially thinking the same thing for Dante and the Fighter 5 rumours, but Aidanzapunk helped bring us to the consensus that the rumour was nothing more than out-of-control speculation, so despite its popularity we might be ok to not cover it here. Aidan also made note of the fact that the Adeleine rumours were confirmed by the poster to be guesses. Incredibly lucky guesses, but nothing more than that. These two rumours are cool and all, but these are the reasons why they're still on the chopping block. [[User:Acgamer28|<span style="font-family:Courier;color:blue">'''Acgamer'''</span>]][[User talk:Acgamer28|<span style="font-family:Courier;color:red">'''28'''</span>]][[File:Acgamer28SignatureHead.png|20px]] 02:07, June 24, 2020 (EDT)
:::Yeah, that makes sense. The Dante rumors were large but I agree they were out-of-control speculation. --[[User:Meester Tweester|Meester Tweester]] ([[User talk:Meester Tweester|talk]]) 17:03, June 24, 2020 (EDT)
::Changed to '''Support''' --[[User:Meester Tweester|Meester Tweester]] ([[User talk:Meester Tweester|talk]]) 02:32, June 25, 2020 (EDT)
:*Loz18 had a reported correct leak that's on the leaks page so IDK how I feel about removing. Though, if there's a specific reason, I'm willing to hear it out.
:*The sections on the NeoGAF rumor, the render rumor, the Iamshiftry rumor, the MandyCan rumor, and the LoL rumor have no explanation for their stay outside of "it got a few things correct", so those should go. The Crash one is probably in the same boat, but it at least has the leverage of the Mii outfits so IDK.
:*amiibo unlock and playlist are iffy but I don't feel strongly one way or the other. They came from mostly official sources and just attracted mere speculation, though I kinda feel that's the whole point.
:*Adeleine shouldn't even be on here if they admitted they were guesses, and it's not like the other rumors that we cover despite being admitted to guesses and hoaxes (the Palutena leak was considered leverage for the Gematsu leaks, the Lucina leak was notable for using mods, the Chunky Kong hoax started an infamous comparison to Bigfoot).
:*The 5channel post section is just a mess ("not confirmed at the moment"? seriously?). If it's kept, it needs a pretty good rewrite, although any existing references to it (like on Vergeben's page) seem like they could easily be revised whereever needed.
:*The Fighter 5 and Rayman rumors were just baseless speculation that didn't even garner much attention. Cut.
:And that's my gut judgement, folks. - [[User:EndGenuity|EndGenuity]] ([[User talk:EndGenuity|talk]]) 18:48, June 24, 2020 (EDT)
::'''Oppose''' I don't really see the need to do this.--[[User:Tailikku|Tailikku]] ([[User talk:Tailikku|talk]]) 18:54, June 24, 2020 (EDT)
::: @ EndGenuity: Loz having a correct, notable  leak doesn't mean that a rumour of theirs is necessarily notable. Plus, aside from the rumour not seeming all to popular back then, Aidan had another bunch of reasons to support deleting it. The amiibo unlock rumours were based off speculation on something that was just.. wrong, and as the article itself states: nothing really came of the Playlist rumour, making it sort of pointless.

:::@ Tailikku: I recommend you take a look at [[Forum:Major overhaul for "List of rumors"|Serena's original proposal]] as it explains a lot of the core reasons that the whole cleanup notion came into being. Plus, from my perspective, this article is huge - and with how easy it is for misinformation to spread nowadays, it's not irrational to say that it's only gonna get bigger. Cutting off flak seems to be a good decision to me. [[User:Acgamer28|<span style="font-family:Courier;color:blue">'''Acgamer'''</span>]][[User talk:Acgamer28|<span style="font-family:Courier;color:red">'''28'''</span>]][[File:Acgamer28SignatureHead.png|20px]] 00:18, June 25, 2020 (EDT)
'''Support''' per Serena in his/her proposal and Acgamer here. [[Special:Contributions/46.229.158.109|46.229.158.109]] 00:23, June 25, 2020 (EDT)

== Another baseless theory to add to the Mr. Sakurai Presents Fighter 5 Theory section ==

People thought Sakurai’s 3 fingers alluded to Kingdom Hearts 3 or that Sora would be revealed in time for KH3’s ReMind DLC which released the same January. But neither went to anything as Sora wasn’t Challenger Pack 5.  [[User:Becodro|Becodro]] ([[User talk:Becodro|talk]]) 10:53, June 30, 2020 (EDT)

== The Milk-BOSATU leak ==

The article reads: "...on June 15th, 2019, he made another tweet claiming his sources came from his friend named Mr. H who visited Nintendo and saw the female character in development, claiming that she looks like she comes from a game of the fighting genre..." "...The next day, he made another tweet stating that she holds a throwing weapon like a hammer or a boomerang. Two days after that tweet, he followed it up with another tweet about the female character's model that Mr. H saw but she doesn't have color at all and he didn't see her face..." "...NOKOLO talked to Milk-BOSATU on Twitter via chat and he claimed that she wears Japanese clothes and she is possibly not Nakoruru from Samurai Spirits due to her lack of relevancy outside of Japan. Two days later, he made a tweet claiming that Mr. H doesn't know if the female character is Nakoruru or not and later claimed that they both share features that are common with each other..."

Then, it goes on to say that "On January 16, 2020, the final fighter of the Fighters Pass was revealed to be Byleth, confirm[ing] the leaker's information regarding the 5th fighter coming from an already represented franchise, Fire Emblem. However, although female Byleth is present as an alternate costume, the character's default costume is male, something that Mr. H did not bring up. Furthermore, much of the descriptions were inaccurate to Byleth's final design, although it may be because of a misinterpretation."

Excuse me? Am I the only one here who thinks that this person was probably talking about Min Min? It lines up WAYYY better, with the fighting genre, japanese clothing, already-represented franchise, throwing weapon and the fact that she's female. I don't know about you guys, but this makes much more sense than a slightly-misinterpreted female Byleth.

I bring this up because I am too new of a user to make the corresponding edits myself. Sincerely, [[User:SamtheBKBoss|Samuel the Banjo-Kazooie Boss.]] (Personal conversation [[User talk:SamtheBKBoss|here]].) 10:02, July 9, 2020 (EDT)
:It's possible.--[[User:Meester Tweester|Meester Tweester]] ([[User talk:Meester Tweester|talk]]) 18:25, July 13, 2020 (EDT)

::It's most certainly not Min Min. "Mr. H" wouldn't know any character from beyond the first Fighter's Pass if they can't even correctly say anything about it outside Hero having no female alt (which frankly, was an easy guess unless you were hardcore on the fighter being Erdrick alone since majority of them do NOT have female alts), let alone back in December of 2018. Furthermore, Min Min is CHINESE and wears CHINESE clothing, not Japanese. AND, the fighter was described to have similarities to Nakoruru, which Min Min has none. Easiest solution? "Mr. H" actually made up this female fighter. Not confused it with Byleth or Min Min. ([[User:GoldenYuiitusin|GoldenYuiitusin]] ([[User talk:GoldenYuiitusin|talk]]) 20:44, July 18, 2020 (EDT))

:::I don't know... I thought Nakoruru and Min Min looked at least a ''little'' similar, especially if, hypothetically, Min Min had no facial features or texturing. I also thought that traditional Chinese and Japanese clothing would look similar, and could've gotten mixed up. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I do also have a few reasons to believe that fighters may have gotten swapped around during DLC development. Sincerely, [[User:SamtheBKBoss|Samuel]] the [[User talk:SamtheBKBoss|<span style="color: #0123A8">'''Banjo-'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/SamtheBKBoss|<span style="color: #FF1901">'''Kazooie'''</span>]] Boss. [[File:SamtheBKBossSIGN.png|16px]] 09:34, July 19, 2020 (EDT)

::::It literally makes no sense for Min Min to have been planned for the initial Fighter Pass just to be "pushed" to Vol. 2. 
::::I would also find it COMPLETELY unreasonable to assume someone who is ''Japanese'' to confuse someone who looks absolutely nothing like Reimu or Nakoruru as being similar to them or confuse what is clearly ''Chinese'' clothing to their outfits. Even without texturing or facial features, there is no similarities whatsoever. Short answer; it isn't Min Min, and "Mr. H" never actually knew anything and only made a not-so lucky guess about Hero not having a female alt. To use Min Min as means to prove how he "could" have been legit is a longer stretch than even SHE is capable of. ([[User:GoldenYuiitusin|GoldenYuiitusin]] ([[User talk:GoldenYuiitusin|talk]]) 18:28, July 20, 2020 (EDT))

[https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/1283431420870815745 An ARMS character wasn't even considered until the second fighter's pass was confirmed], so I highly doubt that Min Min was the fighter that Mr. H saw. Also, why would Min Min be in development in 2019 when she wouldn't be released until a year later? [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 18:40, July 20, 2020 (EDT)

:I'm, uh, not convinced either way at this point, but I'll drop the idea here. Sincerely, [[User:SamtheBKBoss|Samuel]] the [[User talk:SamtheBKBoss|<span style="color: #0123A8">'''Banjo-'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/SamtheBKBoss|<span style="color: #FF1901">'''Kazooie'''</span>]] Boss. [[File:SamtheBKBossSIGN.png|16px]] 20:43, July 20, 2020 (EDT)

== Link between Codenames leak and DLC characters? ==

Would it be worth noting in the Codenames leak section that, by coincidence, the DLC characters in Smash Ultimate also use codenames? [[User:Xm0c|Xm0c]] ([[User talk:Xm0c|talk]]) 20:28, August 16, 2020 (EDT)
:considering this page is only for rumors, I don't think that fact would be appropriate. [[User:Zeckemyro|Hitbox Enthusiast Zeck]] ([[User talk:Zeckemyro|talk]]) 20:34, August 16, 2020 (EDT)
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@@ Line 3: / Line 3: @@
 ==Cleanup==
 With this clean start, I'd like to bump the [[Forum:Major overhaul for "List of rumors"|cleanup project]] that got unanimous approval but no real progress. To recap: '''Rumors should only be listed once they are disproven''', '''rumors should be written about from an objective, neutral standpoint with emphasis on citations''', '''only the most notable rumors should be added.''' None of the Bigby Wolf or "Does not perform well in Autumn" nonsense. I'd like to get a discussion rolling on which entries are fit to take out, but I think it's a good time to move ahead with this. ~ [[User:Serena Strawberry|<span style="color: #e68;">'''Serena Strawberry'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Serena Strawberry|talk]]) 20:37, May 10, 2020 (EDT)
-:Coming back to this, would we be okay with removing all speculative statements like this example from the Doom Mii Costume Leak, "However, the leak came to light in November 2019, so it would be odd if the costumes in it were finalized nearly a year before their addition." Statements like this are purely speculative without any factual basis, and clutter the page. Would be best to keep the page as factual and unbiased as possible. [[Special:Contributions/58.168.4.52|58.168.4.52]] 03:32, October 2, 2020 (EDT)
 ==[https://www.inverse.com/gaming/smash-ultimate-ssbu-dlc-leaks-fighter-pass-2-arms-waluigi This rumor inverse said about an anonymous 4chan user...]==
@@ Line 71: / Line 70: @@
 Would it be worth noting in the Codenames leak section that, by coincidence, the DLC characters in Smash Ultimate also use codenames? [[User:Xm0c|Xm0c]] ([[User talk:Xm0c|talk]]) 20:28, August 16, 2020 (EDT)
 :considering this page is only for rumors, I don't think that fact would be appropriate. [[User:Zeckemyro|Hitbox Enthusiast Zeck]] ([[User talk:Zeckemyro|talk]]) 20:34, August 16, 2020 (EDT)
-== 5channel DLC leak section should be updated since Steve got revealed ==
-Steve from Minecraft was revealed today as Challenger Pack 7 for Fighters Pass 2. This does not make the rumor any true but it should be noted that Steve had an inclusion a year later in the second pass.[[User:Becodro|Becodro]] ([[User talk:Becodro|talk]]) 20:20, October 1, 2020 (EDT)
-== Crash 5 Year Plan ==
-I've added the [https://gamerant.com/super-smash-bros-ultimate-crash-bandicoot-leak/ Crash] 5 year plan rumor as it has recently cropped up with "new" details including Crash for Smash. The 5 year plan was first publicly acknowledged in 2018, however only now are there reports of the plan involving Smash Bros. I think it'd be worth keeping this rumor on the page until its either deconfirmed or confirmed. [[User:IPDude|The One IP Dude]] ([[User talk:IPDude|talk]]) 05:18, October 6, 2020 (EDT)
-== Fortnite "No Comment" ==
-Is it worth including the recent Fortnite rumor? [https://screenrant.com/fortnite-smash-bros-crossover-possible/ It's another no comment] from a creative director like the Suda 51/Travis scenario, but this has gained some traction in the Smash rumor mill community. [[Special:Contributions/203.0.173.97|203.0.173.97]] 05:25, November 3, 2020 (EST)
-:Source: "Dude trust me" [[User:RSM|<span style="color: #714EFF">'''RSM'''</span>]][[File:RSMSignatureHead1.png|20px]][[File:RSMSignatureHead2.png|20px]] ([[User talk:RSM|talk]]) 08:36, November 29, 2020 (EST)
-::The source is literally in the text lmao, click the link. [[Special:Contributions/203.0.173.98|203.0.173.98]] 06:34, December 1, 2020 (EST)
-:::To quote [[User:RSM|RSM]]: "Source: 'Dude trust me'". That's all this Screen Rant article looks like. Especially since Joker for the most part was a one-time thing back in 2018 at the Game Awards. Last year's Game Awards had no special reveals for Ultimate. And quoting again, this time from Kaz Miller, "They [the leakers] played us like a damn fiddle."--[[User:Tailikku|Tailikku]] ([[User talk:Tailikku|talk]]) 10:38, December 8, 2020 (EST)
-== About Mr. Sakurai Presents Fighter 5 Theory section ==
-Honestly, this theory about Sakurai gesturing three fingers, confirm dante or crash are playable is so random, it should be removed, the color theory or Waluigi's chair were as much laughable and more popular than this theory, and they're not mentionned.<small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Jf811|Jf811]] ([[User talk:Jf811|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Jf811|contribs]]) 16:45, December 11, 2020 (EST)</small>.
-:i agree, i honestly don't see why thats on this page lol, like, yeah its a rumour, but it has no base or evidence at all. [[User:RSM|<span style="color: #714EFF">'''RSM'''</span>]] [[File:RSMSignatureHead1.png|20px|Banjo_%26_Kazooie_(SSBU)]][[File:RSMSignatureHead2.png|20px|Steve_(SSBU)]] ([[User talk:RSM|talk]]) 21:32, December 11, 2020 (EST)
-== Disney blocking Sora rumor ==
-With Sephiroth being revealed, I can't help but remember an older report regarding another Square Enix character, Sora. Earlier this year it was reported that Sora was considered for Smash, but Disney declined it. This would mean that Nintendo intended to add Sora, but couldn't, so asked Square Enix for their next best option, being Sephiroth. Of course the last bit was my own speculation, however it does make a lot of sense. I thought it might be worth including this. Here is the article if you are interested; [https://metro.co.uk/2020/02/10/kingdom-heartss-sora-blocked-disney-smash-bros-claims-source-12213918/#:~:text=Kingdom%20Hearts'%20Sora%20was%20reportedly,one%20of%20the%20biggest%20requests.] [[User:RSM|<span style="color: #714EFF">'''RSM'''</span>]] [[File:RSMSignatureHead1.png|20px|Banjo_%26_Kazooie_(SSBU)]][[File:RSMSignatureHead2.png|20px|Steve_(SSBU)]] ([[User talk:RSM|talk]]) 13:13, December 17, 2020 (EST)
-:That article was actually false, because what the podcast [https://twitter.com/HMKilla/status/1225959047469445120 actually] [https://twitter.com/HMKilla/status/1226228343542026246 said] was that Sora could feasibly get in, but if anything were to stop him, it'd be Disney. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: red;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: green;">'''the Festive Rurouni'''</span>]] 13:33, December 17, 2020 (EST)
-== 5ch Negotiations Leak ==
-A [https://smashboards.com/threads/newcomer-dlc-speculation-discussion.453424/page-4813#post-24211016/ rumor] was posted on 5ch 10 days after Ultimate was released and has been gaining traction after Sephiroth's reveal, leading some to speculate Chun-Li and a Tales Of character to be 2 of the 3 fighters remaining. It mainly talks about negotiations behind the scenes and is notable for including Steve and Sephiroth on it saying that there were in the planning stages but vanished. It also said Hero and Steve was planned for the base roster which Sakurai implied in the Dragon Quest Stream for Hero and confirmed for Steve by the Minecraft devs.
-*Source: "dude trust me". lucky guesses happen all the time, theres already too many on this page as it is, anyone could've said or guessed that considering Hero and Steve were both heavily rumoured during Ultimate's launch. [[User:RSM|<span style="color: #714EFF">'''RSM'''</span>]] [[File:RSMSignatureHead1.png|20px|Banjo_%26_Kazooie_(SSBU)]][[File:RSMSignatureHead2.png|20px|Steve_(SSBU)]] ([[User talk:RSM|talk]]) 09:55, January 12, 2021 (EST)
-== Concert Rumor ==
-Have decided to add the Concert Leak/Rumor due to the amount of traction its received since Pyra/Mythra were revealed. [[User:IPDude|The One IP Dude]] ([[User talk:IPDude|talk]]) 10:58, February 24, 2021 (EST)
-:I personally don't think it should be added. First, most people have already dismissed this rumor. Second, logistically speaking a concert of this scope would be a PR disaster since Sakurai and Nintendo would have to once again ask for rights to all the themes in the concert. There's enough evidence out there for me to believe this is just an outright false rumor. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 11:53, February 24, 2021 (EST)
-::Since lots of websites are covering it, I'd say keep it until it's disproven. Many of the rights to songs would've been negotiated for when they were being included in Smash anyway.[[User:IPDude|The One IP Dude]] ([[User talk:IPDude|talk]]) 02:48, February 25, 2021 (EST)
-:::Sorry for being incredibly late, but Sakurai only has the rights to use the songs on the universe's stages; he had to ask for permission to include every song onto Small Battlefield. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 19:53, March 4, 2021 (EST)
-::::Given the reveal of Kazuya during the Direct, it's completely busted. --[[User:Tailikku|Tailikku]] ([[User talk:Tailikku|talk]]) 15:42, June 15, 2021 (EDT)
-== Move rumor guidelines to an {{s|Template|EditNotice}} ==
-This is a bump for something I had proposed [[/Archive 5#Move the guidelines to an EditNotice|here]] to no avail. Other than what has already been said last time, this change would trim around 7,740 bytes off the page, and would ensure it appears consistently for every section (none of the Ultimate rumor sections have it pasted, for some reason). [[File:NokiiSig.png|link=User_talk:Nokii]] '''[[User:Nokii|<span style="color:#89f">Nokii</span>]]''' — 15:32, March 20, 2021 (EDT)
-== Dante/Morgan Archer rumor ==
-An account similar to Mandy back in 2020 has surfaced online, claiming various fighters, companies, costumes and dates regarding smash news - 100% of which ended up being correct. He goes by "Archer", and claims the next two characters are Dante from Devil May Cry and Arthur Morgan from Red Dead. He also claims a costume based on Dovahkiin from Skyrim is coming with the next wave. https://twitter.com/____Archer_?s=20 [[User:RSM|<span style="color: #714EFF">'''RSM'''</span>]] [[File:RSMSignatureHead1.png|20px|Banjo_%26_Kazooie_(SSBU)]][[File:RSMSignatureHead2.png|20px|Steve_(SSBU)]] ([[User talk:RSM|talk]]) 06:26, March 22, 2021 (EDT)
-:This is incredibly easy to fake. All the account has to do is enter private mode, post a bunch of fairly reasonable guesses, delete the ones that did not occur and keep the ones that did, then unprivate. This account should not be taken seriously. [[User:SenorMexicano|<span style="color:#850FFA; text-shadow: 0px 0px 3px green">'''Señor'''</span> <span style="color:#850FFA;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px green">'''Mexicano'''</span>]] ''[[User talk:SenorMexicano|<span style="color:lightpurple;text-shadow:0px 0px 2px lightgreen">(talk)</span>]]'' 07:48, March 22, 2021 (EDT)
-::so mandy's allowed on but this isnt, even tho this had more correct stuff on it? ok [[User:RSM|<span style="color: #714EFF">'''RSM'''</span>]] [[File:RSMSignatureHead1.png|20px|Banjo_%26_Kazooie_(SSBU)]][[File:RSMSignatureHead2.png|20px|Steve_(SSBU)]] ([[User talk:RSM|talk]]) 09:26, March 22, 2021 (EDT)
-:::That's more of a reason to remove Mandy rather than to insert Archer. --[[User:Rdrfc|Rdrfc]] ([[User talk:Rdrfc|talk]]) 11:21, March 22, 2021 (EDT)
-::::I wouldn't say it's a reason to remove Mandy yet, but to let Mandy be the example of how easy this kind of rumor is to fake and why this Archer leaker is probably using the same tactics. [[Special:Contributions/203.0.172.249|203.0.172.249]] 07:33, March 30, 2021 (EDT)
-== URL String Theory ==
-The error page that shows up when you enter 73 at the end of the URL, doesn’t just show up for that URL specifically. It will show up if you add any 13 numbers after the 7. So if I put 13 random numbers after the 7, such as 72198461293543. It will still lead me to that same error page. You can see here: https://ec.nintendo.com/NZ/en/aocs/72198461293543 [[User:Michael14375|Michael14375]] ([[User talk:Michael14375|talk]]) 10:19, April 13, 2021 (EDT)
-:Good catch, however, the two error messages that show up on the link you've provided and [https://ec.nintendo.com/NZ/en/aocs/70050000008573 the link the rumor is based around] are different. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: cyan;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: pink;">'''the Springing Rurouni'''</span>]] 11:00, April 13, 2021 (EDT)
-::The same error code from the rumoured link will still show up even if you end the url with 99, so it's not unique to that page specifically. Seen here: https://ec.nintendo.com/NZ/en/aocs/70050000018999 [[User:Michael14375|Michael14375]] ([[User talk:Michael14375|talk]]) 09:48, April 14, 2021 (EDT)
-== Mr. Sakurai Presents Fighter 5 Theory ==
-It says that Sakurai was holding up 3 fingers to represent 17 in binary, but wouldn't it make more sense for it to represent Three Houses? [[User:Michael14375|Michael14375]] ([[User talk:Michael14375|talk]]) 05:22, April 25, 2021 (EDT)
-:If you actually read the whole section, you'll realize the gesture representing 17 is supposed to be a reference to how ''Three Houses'' is considered the 17th mainline installment in the ''Fire Emblem'' series (which includes ''Heroes'' and separates all remakes, for some reason). Also, if I recall correctly, in one scene of Byleth's presentation, Sakurai actually counts all of the ''Fire Emblem'' installments in finger binary. [[File:SmashTurtlesSig1.png|20px]][[User:SuperSmashTurtles|<span style="color: green;">'''SuperSmashTurtles'''</span>]] of the [[User talk:SuperSmashTurtles|<span style="color: lightgreen;">'''Turtle Tribe'''</span>]][[File:SmashTurtlesSig2.png|20px]] 06:13, April 25, 2021 (EDT)
-== Regarding the Concert Rumor's song choices ==
-The person who posted the rumor seems to have not realized that Proof of a Hero is already in the game. I feel as though this should have been mentioned  https://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_SSBU_Music_(Other_series)#Proof_of_a_Hero_~_4Version
---[[Special:Contributions/68.55.55.59|68.55.55.59]] 06:24, May 10, 2021 (EDT)
-:Not only is that a rather weak counter-point in several ways (in my opinion), but with all the other given, more notable reasons that the rumour is likely false, I don't think that any more counter-points are necessary. Sincerely, [[User:SamtheBKBoss|Samuel]] the [[User talk:SamtheBKBoss|<span style="color: #0123A8">'''Banjo-'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/SamtheBKBoss|<span style="color: #FF1901">'''Kazooie'''</span>]] Boss. [[File:SamtheBKBossSIGN.png|16px]] 11:37, May 10, 2021 (EDT)
-== Crash Bandicoot: On the Run official Facebook page==
-The Official Facebook page was doing a Q&A for its fans. A fan asked: "maybe some cross-promotion with Smash Bros when Crash gets added to Ultimate?" And was the only comment to receive a heart react by the page. As seen PapaGenos' latest video. [[User:Michael14375|Michael14375]] ([[User talk:Michael14375|talk]]) 09:30, May 20, 2021 (EDT)
-:Could be as simple as whoever runs said page expressing "yeah, that could be fun in theory" and doesn't indicate anything definitive in the slightest. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Verdana;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 11:16, May 20, 2021 (EDT)
-== Frisk joining Smash Fan Theory ==
-So there's an intriguing fan theory that suggests Frisk from Undertale will join Smash as Fighters' Pass Vol. 2's last character. It's one that originated on Twitter. Here are the clues:
-*Clue #1: Sans received both a track (MEGALOVANIA) and a Mii Costume
-*Clue #2: Frisk can't speak
-With Fighters' Pass Vol. 2's addition, 6 voice tracks were added into the game. These are:
-. Min Min
-. Sephiroth
-. Advent Children Cloud
-. Pyra
-. Mythra
-. Kazuya
-This means that the last character is a silent character.
-*Clue #3: Undertale's anniversary is September
-That date was used for the reveal of Sans' Mii Costume. It's likely that a new Deltarune chapter will be announced. After that, either Toby Fox himself announcing Frisk for Smash or Sakurai hosts a separate Mr. Sakurai Presents video that reveals Frisk for the game (probably on September 14, 2021; six years after Undertale's launch).
-*Clue #4: Toby Fox is friends with Sakurai and Nintendo
-When announcing Sans for Smash Ultimate as a Mii Costume, the game’s director, Masahiro Sakurai discussed that Fox came over to his house to brawl in Ultimate. As cool as it would be to imagine the two developers as chums that united for their love of the fight, these two developers are busy people.
-Did they really come together for just a Mii Fighter Skin? Perhaps there’s something larger at play such as Frisk joining Smash?
-It seems like all these clues are coming together for Frisk being the final fighter in Smash Ultimate. We will find out for sure in just a few months. [[User:Hassantaleb123|Hassantaleb123]] ([[User talk:Hassantaleb123|talk]]) 14:32, July 10, 2021 (EDT)
-:Smash isn't an ARG with "clues". You're connecting dots that either don't exist or were never intended to make a shape in the first place. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Verdana;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 14:34, July 10, 2021 (EDT)
-::This is the tweet the fan theory originated from: [https://twitter.com/playcenterwd/status/1404907289744658438/photo/1 Twitter]
-== The rapping Mario leak ==
-I'll leave an [https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/1/9/AAeFJvAACJgT.jpg image] of the 4chan leak people have been talking about lately below. I think it should be added to the article. [[User:Michael14375|Michael14375]] ([[User talk:Michael14375|talk]]) 15:26, August 9, 2021 (EDT)
-: I had to make your image a link since it breaks with the way pages are displayed. For that matter, this leak is not notable enough and is incorrect about "Fighter's Pass 2 and beyond" as Sakurai has officially stated that the next character is the last DLC character in the game. On top of that, this leak is grossly out of date being only 8 months old and not even taking Kazuya into consideration, as well as the whole "making Waluigi playable" thing yet again. --[[User:Tailikku|Tailikku]] ([[User talk:Tailikku|talk]]) 10:25, August 10, 2021 (EDT)
-::Not only that, but its wording is incredibly vague, making it a lot easier for some of these predictions to be "true." It's like saying the next character is a "highly requested character," which already covers like 10-20 potential candidates. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 10:43, August 10, 2021 (EDT)
-:The only thing here going for it is the Dante costume, which was inevitable considering the amount of Capcom stuff we got already, and "a fighter that appeases to both the east and west, will not break the internet and people will be angry", which can describe literally any video game character ever lmao [[User:RSM|<span style="color: #714EFF">'''RSM'''</span>]] [[File:RSMSignatureHead1.png|20px|Banjo_%26_Kazooie_(SSBU)]][[File:RSMSignatureHead2.png|20px|Steve_(SSBU)]] ([[User talk:RSM|talk]]) 15:39, August 11, 2021 (EDT)
-==The Disney Music 4chan leak==
-In the last few days, this 4chan post has been making the rounds:
-“Actual info here: I work for Disney music, Nintendo called last week to request rights to several tracks from kingdom hearts to use in a ‘digital event’ on October 5. Sora is the last Smash character.”
-Because this was SUPPOSEDLY posted back in July 30th, and people don't believe the date shown was a lucky guess, everyobody and their grandmother is taking this leak as "evidence" that the spiky-haired self insert is the last fighter, and the fanbase for Kingdom Hearts is like "Sora is in Smash, nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah!", and it's driving me crazy! What are your thoughts on it, fellow Wikia comrades? <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Numbuh1507|Numbuh1507]] ([[User talk:Numbuh1507|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Numbuh1507|contribs]]) 20:04, September 29, 2021 (EDT)</small>
-:There are a lot of "lucky date" guesses out there, even some that were posted here iirc, and yet none of them came to fruition. I honestly believe this is just a shitpost/trollpost. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 21:14, September 29, 2021 (EDT)
-:I'm not really sure what I want to make of it myself. While I'm not at all convinced in its favour, it does have some interesting circumstances going for it, and since it's got such a short shelf life I don't see why we shan't keep it in the back of our minds for the time being. I hate using the "monkeys on typewriters" analogy, because technically that could be applied to any leak that's ever happened. Sincerely, [[User:SamtheBKBoss|Samuel]] the [[User talk:SamtheBKBoss|<span style="color: #0123A8">'''Banjo-'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/SamtheBKBoss|<span style="color: #FF1901">'''Kazooie'''</span>]] Boss. [[File:SamtheBKBossSIGN.png|16px]] 21:36, September 29, 2021 (EDT)
-:Frankly, I don't see Disney contents (Kingdom Hearts included) making it in Smash. Plus, these texts don't provide us sources, so I doubt about that 4Chan text right now. In other words, it stinks strongly of "my uncle works at Nintendo" thingy.
-:They can fool me once with "Richter & Gardevoir rumor" back in 2018, but they can't fool me twice with the virtually same rumor. [[User:CSR|CSR]] ([[User talk:CSR|talk]]) 21:43, September 29, 2021 (EDT)
-:do you seriously think that someone who works for Disney's legal team would literally just spew all this information on the internet? seriously, do you actually believe that someone with a job that big and important would say this? [[User:RSM|<span style="color: #714EFF">'''RSM'''</span>]] [[File:RSMSignatureHead1.png|20px|Banjo_%26_Kazooie_(SSBU)]][[File:RSMSignatureHead2.png|20px|Steve_(SSBU)]] ([[User talk:RSM|talk]]) 16:49, September 30, 2021 (EDT)
-More than anything, I believe we've been over this before. Text-only "leaks" from 4chan are generally not notable for the purpose of this page. If one somehow happens to be 100% accurate through to the end of their predictions, we can consider it then. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Verdana;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 17:01, September 30, 2021 (EDT)
-Sorry, I just had to come back and comment in retrospective - this section aged like milk. It's funny because I was the only one in this conversation who didn't have serious doubts to the validity of the leak (not that I 100% believed it, either...). Sincerely, [[User:SamtheBKBoss|Samuel]] the [[User talk:SamtheBKBoss|<span style="color: #0123A8">'''Banjo-'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/SamtheBKBoss|<span style="color: #FF1901">'''Kazooie'''</span>]] Boss. [[File:SamtheBKBossSIGN.png|16px]] 14:59, October 5, 2021 (EDT)
-==Rigged Ballot #2==
-Ballot started April 1st, 2015 to October 3rd, 2015. Cloud Strife appeared on November 12, 2015. It seems unlikely that people overwhelmingly voted for Sora before Cloud extended the possibility of such inclusion more widely. As a first survey sample, Source Gaming's poll result on April 1, 2015 reveals that Sora isn't among the top 52. https://sourcegaming.info/2015/04/01/smash-poll-smash-dlc-results/
-The possible and common reason for this call to ballot at the end is that the final DLC could have brought annoyance and frustration to supporters of other characters. Nintendo would therefore strategically need to create a unifying effect, by making believe that their choice would be motivated by a vote with the attention of wanting to please. This strategy would make it possible to place in the background that it's first of all Nintendo which imposes its own choice. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:90.49.237.143|90.49.237.143]] ([[User talk:90.49.237.143|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/90.49.237.143|contribs]]) 14:35, October 5, 2021 (EDT)</small>
-:I hope the Ballot was rigged, because there's no way the Smash community would be so moronic to ask for another Anime Swordfighter, even thoguh they were supposedly sick of them. I can imagine the backlash Sakurai would have to face. That would be hilarious. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Numbuh1507|Numbuh1507]] ([[User talk:Numbuh1507|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Numbuh1507|contribs]]) 15:00, October 5, 2021 (EDT)</small>
-::It should be mentioned ''who'' voted. The Source Gaming poll is overwhelmingly English speakers, whereas the Fighter Ballot probably had many more votes and from more places (i.e. not Europe or North America). Based on info on Wikipedia, Kingdom Hearts is more popular in Japan than in North America. It shouldn't be a surprise that a country filled with cartoons and mascots voted for a character from a game filled with cartoons and mascots backed by Disney, the king of cartoons and mascots. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 15:48, October 5, 2021 (EDT)
-As other survey samples,
-* Reddit's poll result on April 15, 2015 reveals that Sora isn't among the top 34.https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/32mcez/final_results_the_smash_bros_dlc_reddit_survey_is/
-* Source Gaming's Japan poll result on February 19, 2015 reveals that Sora doesn't appear. https://sourcegaming.wordpress.com/2015/02/19/perception-of-smash-dlc-in-japan/
-* Source Gaming's Japan poll result on September 13, 2015 reveals that Sora is 31st with 1.12% of the votes. https://sourcegaming.info/2015/09/13/japantopdlcpt2/
-Before Cloud came, Sora didn't have a important support. Can we assume that voting Sora was equivalent to voting for a small candidate? Would you agree to gather other sources to confront in order to get the most likely conclusion? <small>—unsigned comment added by [[User:90.49.237.143|90.49.237.143]] ([[User talk:90.49.237.143|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/90.49.237.143|contribs]]) 19:24, October 5, 2021 (EDT)</small>
-:I'm only going to touch on the ones related to Japan since those are the ones that would likely lead to the discrepancy; we already know the West's views more or less. First of all, neither are polls. They are the editor scouring online and compiling who they saw people talking about. Second, the first is 430 "votes" and the second is 1000 "votes"; that's significantly fewer "votes" than reddit (13,000) and the Smashboards thread has 33,000 views (which comparatively isn't great but still a lot). We don't know how many votes the Fighter Ballot received, but it is likely much greater than any of these fan polls combined for Japan alone. Third, "The reason I did this is because this method is highly ineffective for actually counting how much a character is requested. This is because with this method, '''I’m bound to pick up on the loudest fanbases. The loudest fanbase is not necessarily the biggest'''" -PushDustIn (third link). I don't think it is unreasonable to think that Japan could easily push a character to the top (see Dragon Quest requesting to go against standard release dates to avoid having no one come in to work). Western polls and websites aren't going to shed any light on how the rest of the world wanted Sora. I also want to quickly mention that Link, Shulk, Cloud, Sephiroth, and Hero are all "anime swordfighters" that are unique and tons of people like them (the latter being from Dragon Quest which, as mentioned earlier, is big in Japan), they're just overshadowed by the ones the community are actually tired of (Fire Emblem). --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 20:07, October 5, 2021 (EDT)
-== Moving and renaming the rigged ballot rumor to the leaks page ==
-First if all: rename it, since Bayo won because she was the winner among negotiable characters, which was explicitly stated when she was revealed and further confirmed when Sora was. 2nd, if data for Bayo was factually confirmed to exist in versions way before she released, then that's more of a leak. Even though the data leaked long after she released, there have been leaks that weren't realized until after being proven true (Piranha Plant, Byleth, E3 2018). The only issue I can think of is the new name. Maybe "True ballot winner controversy"? [[Special:Contributions/157.242.208.151|157.242.208.151]] 13:48, October 7, 2021 (EDT)
-== Remove disney music rumor and keep it on the leaks page ==
-It was added because a select few people think it may be a coincidence. That may be true, but there's not enough evidence to suggest this was a fake like when somebody revealed they faked a Palutena "leak". I also wouldn't say it's "widely considered to be a coincidence" because so far I just see one person who's really persistent about it being a coincidence and one who said they think it's legit but added it here anyways. I also want to mention again that the post specifically said the request was to use music in the presentation, not the game, and Simple and Clean is in the presentation but not the game. [[Special:Contributions/68.4.176.97|68.4.176.97]] 15:20, October 17, 2021 (EDT)
-:That's simply not how we handle rumours. Around here, we start out by assuming it's fake, and look for enough credibility to prove it real. Sincerely, [[User:SamtheBKBoss|Samuel]] the [[User talk:SamtheBKBoss|<span style="color: #0123A8">'''Banjo-'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/SamtheBKBoss|<span style="color: #FF1901">'''Kazooie'''</span>]] Boss. [[File:SamtheBKBossSIGN.png|16px]] 15:55, October 17, 2021 (EDT)
-::The specification that the music was for the presentation, not the game, is a huge boon to its credibility. There's also the fact that the leaker claimed to be a Disney employee, not a Nintendo employee, meaning they would have no reason to leak other characters (not like they could since this was the last one). The fact that they claimed to be in Disney's music division also means they have no reason to know any info regarding Sora's moveset because that's not what they specialize in. Going by the leaker's occupation, the only thing they could leak is music, which checks out. Any text-only leak can simply be a coincidence, but this has too many factors supporting its credibility. [[Special:Contributions/68.4.176.97|68.4.176.97]] 16:18, October 17, 2021 (EDT)
-== Waluigi harassment rumor ==
-There's an old rumor from 2018 relating to Sakurai supposedly being harassed en masse over Waluigi on Twitter - while not relating to Smash's content directly, it was very widespread, was reported on by multiple news sites, and cemented itself into Smash discourse for quite some time, but has since been semi-debunked (the Tweets were real, but there were only about 2 of them). Would it be worth mentioning on this page? --[[User:BubzieBobkat|What could possibly go wrong? - BubzieBobkat]] ([[User talk:BubzieBobkat|talk]]) 18:34, July 20, 2023 (EDT)
-:That's already covered on the Waluigi page's trivia section. I also don't believe it was a rumor; to me it was more so overblown drama that just so happened to involve ''Smash''. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 19:10, July 20, 2023 (EDT)
-== Just would like to add information to the "Toad in Melee" hoax ==
-Like with Sonic, Toad's select screen and Challenger Approach do not use art specific for the game; instead, [https://www.mariowiki.com/File:Toadarmscrossed.jpg this artwork] from ''Super Mario 64'' was used. It may seem irrelevant, but I do believe it should be pointed out as one more clue to the falseness of this particular hoax, like it was pointed out for Sonic/Tails. [[Special:Contributions/191.246.230.10|191.246.230.10]] 12:01, August 12, 2023 (EDT)
-== Reinstalling some of the cut entries. ==
-Compared to the other cut leaks from this page, I honestly think Tower of Smash is notable enough to warrant staying. Despite the lack of photographic evidence accompanying, it definitely was one of the most discussed leaks during the speculatory scene, at least '''way''' more than most of the entries that were cut from this page, that where generally more relegated to forum discussions, while Tower of Smash was notable enough [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg3P8QFuBDg&ab_channel=GameXplain to be covered by GameXplain back during its heyday.] I feel it's too iconic within the leak scene compared to the other more throwaway leaks cut from this page.
-I also feel the "James Bond & Banjo cut from Melee" rumor is still too widespread around Youtube and other sites for it to be cut. Since a lot of people still believe the rumor to be true, I feel it's best to acknowledge it here in this page because of how persistent it is among the community. Best to have a page here to debunk the myth rather than cutting the myth altogether.
-Lastly I wanted to ask if this hoax for 'Smash for Switch' could be added in, you can see info [https://www.neogaf.com/threads/rumor-super-smash-bros-switch-images-leaked.1382673/ here.] This was a super widespread and elaborate rumor in early 2018 about how Smash 4 was gonna be ported to Switch using content from the Smash Run mode or others, which got debunked once Smash Ultimate was properly revealed. The graphics looked convincing enough at the time, so I think it'd be good to go over the inclusion for this one on the Smash Ultimate or 4 section.--[[User:Kirb-Star|Kirb-Star]] ([[User talk:Kirb-Star|talk]]) 00:32, September 20, 2023 (EDT)
-:Tower of Smash may have been more notable than most of the other removed entries, and I was involved with the speculation scene on Smashboards where I saw it get discussed a good amount, but I don't think it's that much more notable than stuff like the "Pipeburst leak", the "Riddle leak", or other various forum "leaks" that managed to get a few things right and say things that people wanted to rile people up until they got debunked. This is especially so when it never had any real authority to it (unlike say Loz18's fake leaks), and I also don't think a GameXplain video alone is much in the way of notability. However, if a lot of people push for readding it, maybe I'll concede.
-:As for the Rare characters, my issue with it is that it's not so much of a fabricated rumor, but rather people misinterpreted Sakurai's remarks about them on the Melee site and then ran wild with a game of telephone. I don't think it belongs on this page, and any debunking of the misconception that they were planned/considered characters for Melee belongs on other pages (such as [[Banjo]]'s general character article). Again, if a lot of people want to insist otherwise on classifying it as a rumor, maybe I'll concede.
-:As for the "Smash 4 Switch port" rumor, I think there could be something there. The entry about it that was on the page prior, however, was a meandering mess that was mostly covering insider people talking vaguely about the next Smash, in ways that could have been just as applicable to what Ultimate actually was, and so it was removed. If something better can be written that focuses only on definitive "Smash 4 is getting a port on Switch" rumors, it will be reconsidered. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[File: TyranitarMS.png ]] 15:37, September 21, 2023 (EDT)
-== IGN's "Super Smash Bros. Brawl Xtreme" April Fools Joke ==
-On April 1st, 2008, IGN posted a rather graphic April Fools joke involving Brawl potentially having a more M-rated expansion called "Super Smash Bros. Brawl Xtreme" or "Dairanto Smash Bros. Xtreme" which featured excessive blood and what looked like Fatalities a la Mortal Kombat (i.e.: Link decapitating Mario with the Master Sword) as a part of a similar April Fools hoax of a "Wii Want More Channel" that worked similarly to the orange Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection titles and the PS3 and Xbox 360 games with downloadable content. Thank God it wasn't real, but I was practically scarred for life when I saw that joke for the first and only time in my life. And I was horrified when DidYouKnowGaming? covered said April Fools joke in their DYKG? Extra video on Wii games released on September 9th, 2021. I practically screamed at the top of my lungs, which probably scared the people upstairs where I live now, after I learned that the YouTube channel beat on that horse that's been dead over 15 years ago.[[Special:Contributions/71.45.131.226|71.45.131.226]] 18:40, October 1, 2024 (EDT)
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