Editing Talk:List of SSBM tier lists (Brazil)

I don't speak Brazilian. Is this from the Back Room or not? <span style="color:#4CBB17">--Posted by</span> [[User:Pikamander2|<span style="color:#007FFF">Pikamander2</span>]] <small>[[User Talk:Pikamander2|<span style="color:#007FFF">(Talk)</span>]]</small> at 23:31, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
:I'm tempted to delete this as spam, but I'm not sure. [[User:Miles.oppenheimer|<font color="firebrick"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="lightcoral">([[User talk:Miles.oppenheimer|<font color="lightcoral">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 23:48, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variance? ==

Why exactly would tier lists vary by country? [[User:Zixor|Zixor]] ([[User talk:Zixor|talk]]) 23:50, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
:Why not? Each country's metagame is different, and the U.S. doesn't rule the world... neither does GB or Australia (not to sound very harsh towards these countries; they are the ones in which most smashers come from that are notable on this wiki.) <font face="calibri">'''[[User:Fried beef1|<font color="pink">Fried</font><font color="hotpink">beef</font><font color="crimson">1</font>]] [[User talk:Fried beef1|<span style="color:lightpink"><span style="font-size: 60%">Love</span></span>]]'''</font> 23:51, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
:: Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Brazil use the same format as elsewhere, be it PAL or NTSC (both of which already have tier lists)? [[User:Miles.oppenheimer|<font color="firebrick"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="lightcoral">([[User talk:Miles.oppenheimer|<font color="lightcoral">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 23:52, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
:::IDK, but I'm thinking that Zimbabwe's smashers should be able to make a tier list the same way U.S. smashers can.  It might be that it's the metagame for that one country... <font face="calibri">'''[[User:Fried beef1|<font color="pink">Fried</font><font color="hotpink">beef</font><font color="crimson">1</font>]] [[User talk:Fried beef1|<span style="color:lightpink"><span style="font-size: 60%">Love</span></span>]]'''</font> 23:54, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
::::I posted the Tier List, yes, it´s maked by Brazilian Backrooms, and the this Tier List appresent different metagame and is interesting to put here. - Toon Toad 00:39
I think that the NTSC is just North America and PAL is Europe, so Brazil very well might be on a different format.  As for the merge, I'd say no as we expressly keep the [[PAL tier list]] separate.  [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 01:43, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
::Image:PAL-NTSC-SECAM.svg|This says it ''might'' be PAL, but I'm not sure... [[User:Miles.oppenheimer|<font color="firebrick"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="lightcoral">([[User talk:Miles.oppenheimer|<font color="lightcoral">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 02:54, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
::Brazil is PAL version? The PAL version is the version of Sheik don´t can chaingrab, correct? If is PAL version is not launched in Brazil - Toon Toad, 4 February

Oh, hi. I am a Backroomer from the Brazillian boards, and I did participate on the recent update of our Melee Tier List (There's also a Brawl one, but I don't play Brawl so I didn't make an article to it).

And I did the edit now on the page. At first, we talk portuguese, the brazillian language doas not existe lol.

The article itself says that we use the NTSC-U version. As you all know, America isn't just the USA, we are America too, of the South. Whatever...

Each country has its own metagame, of course no one is so developed as the USA one, but still a different way to play and see the game. Even if the USA has the most advanced metagame, its tier list cannot be known as the "official" to all of the world (at least for the NTSC) regardless of the effort put into it.

Anyway, even if most players gives more credit to the USA's Tier List, there's no harm on letting other smash scenes have the right to show their opinions about the characters position.

== One more detail ==

And as you can see in the link in the bottom of the article, the Tier is displayed in the forums' portal, in the right, inside of a spoiler box.

== UNFAIR! ==

im a pro with kirby and they putted kirby in last place (26th). THIS IS HEAVY UNFAIR!!! --[[User:Igor The Mii|PK STARSTORM!!]] ([[User talk:Igor The Mii|talk]]) 12:03, 30 August 2013 (EDT)
:Read [[SW:TALK]] and stop posting pointless shit. And if you're a pro with Kirby, go and win some tournaments with him. [[User:Scr7|<span style="color:#0000FF"">S</span><span style="color:#7F7FFF">c</span><span style="color:#00FFFF">r</span><span style="color:#FF7F00">7</span>]][[File:Scr7 sig.png|link=]]([[User talk:Scr7|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Scr7|contribs]]) 12:05, 30 August 2013 (EDT)
::If you're unaware of why the tier list community (which is not us) put Kirby at the bottom of the Melee tier list, I strongly doubt that you are a professional Kirby player. Clearly you don't understand how flawed he is. [[User:ToastUltimatum|<font color="ff8c00">'''Toast'''</font>]] [[File:Wii U Logo Transparent.png|17px]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|<font color="01a3c4">'''ltimatum'''</font>]] 12:05, 30 August 2013 (EDT)
i know how kirby is flawed.. --[[User:Igor The Mii|PK STARSTORM!!]] ([[User talk:Igor The Mii|talk]]) 12:08, 30 August 2013 (EDT)
:If you knew exactly how he's flawed, you'll know why he's in bottom tier. [[User:Scr7|<span style="color:#0000FF"">S</span><span style="color:#7F7FFF">c</span><span style="color:#00FFFF">r</span><span style="color:#FF7F00">7</span>]][[File:Scr7 sig.png|link=]]([[User talk:Scr7|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Scr7|contribs]]) 13:02, 30 August 2013 (EDT)

== Deletion ==

This is a very old page whose existence never seemed to be questioned (except for [https://www.ssbwiki.com/index.php?title=List_of_SSBM_tier_lists_(Brazil)&diff=prev&oldid=304780 one time] it did get a valid delete tag, only for it to be [https://www.ssbwiki.com/index.php?title=List_of_SSBM_tier_lists_(Brazil)&diff=next&oldid=304784 immediately removed by an old admin] with no real explanation), but looking at it now, I find it dubious to keep this page. For one, Brazil doesn't have their own unique version of the game, they have the [[NTSC]] version, so that's already a big strike against the notability of this tier list, why cover a different tier list covering the same exact game that the Smash Back Room's tier lists covers? One could point to us having pages for the Brawl [[European tier list]] and [[Japanese tier list]], despite Brawl having no regional differences, as an argument to keeping this page. However, the European and especially Japanese scenes are large with many top level players, and they were very isolated back in the Brawl days, so them having their own tier list was both understandable and noteworthy as a "second opinion" that merited coverage by the wiki. The Brazilian scene on the other hand doesn't appear significant at all; in our category page for [https://www.ssbwiki.com/Category:Brazilian_tournaments Brazilian tournaments], there are only ''13 tournaments'', and of them, [[Tournament:First National Brazilian Tournament|this is the only Melee tournament]] on the wiki from the actual timeframe covered by these tier lists, where it was a national-level tournament with... only 49 entrants. That would be an average regional at best in that time, and it's not like the players are super good either; the tournaments winner, {{sm|Aisengobay}}, got 65th at [[Apex 2014]] and [[Apex 2015]], while the only other player in the top 6 with international results, {{sm|Kizzu}}, got ''385th'' at Apex 2015. We certainly wouldn't cover a tier list from an individual state like a "New York tier list" or from any other non-Japanese individual country like a "French Tier list", so why a tier list from a country with a scene less significant than most states?

Also this page doesn't have any sources to actually verify if these "Brazilian tier lists" existed at all, and wasn't just some hoax that got accepted by old SmashWiki users who didn't properly scrutinize content added to the wiki then, like the "[[Wavedash#Origins and discovery|Toadbanjoconker discovered wavedashing]]" hoax. Trying to search it on google, the only relevant result is this page, and on Smashboards I found nothing about it either (only finding results about Brazilian tier lists made for Brawl and Smash 4 that never got brought up here). At best, the sources for this tier list are lost to time, and even if they were legit, as per my prior points, it still shouldn't be covered here.

Does anyone here have anything to add about these Brazilian tier lists that I missed, or otherwise have any real objection to deleting this page? <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[File: TyranitarMS.png ]] 18:46, February 16, 2023 (EST)

:'''Support'''. Regional tier lists should be hosted only if they have a wide body of top level players somewhat disconnected from the larger scene, and Melee Brazil clearly was not that. [[User:Stuart98|Stuart98]] ([[User talk:Stuart98|talk]]) 19:25, February 16, 2023 (EST)
:'''Support'''. Considering the fact that the Brazilian scene is clearly smaller than the scenes in North America/Japan/Europe, this tier list is very clearly out of place on the wiki. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 16:11, February 17, 2023 (EST)
:Support. Nothing much else to add as said above. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 18:09, February 17, 2023 (EST)
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 :'''Support'''. Regional tier lists should be hosted only if they have a wide body of top level players somewhat disconnected from the larger scene, and Melee Brazil clearly was not that. [[User:Stuart98|Stuart98]] ([[User talk:Stuart98|talk]]) 19:25, February 16, 2023 (EST)
 :'''Support'''. Considering the fact that the Brazilian scene is clearly smaller than the scenes in North America/Japan/Europe, this tier list is very clearly out of place on the wiki. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 16:11, February 17, 2023 (EST)
-:'''Support'''. Nothing much else to add as said above. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 18:09, February 17, 2023 (EST)
+:Support. Nothing much else to add as said above. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 18:09, February 17, 2023 (EST)
-:'''Support'''. This series of tier lists is pretty much long discontinued. No other comment about it. [[User:MHStarCraft|'''<font color="skyblue">MH</font>''']][[User talk:MHStarCraft|'''<font color="blue">StarCraft</font>''']] [[File:Mega Man X SNES sprite.png|19px]] 18:53, February 17, 2023 (EST)
-:'''Support'''. As per everyone else. [[User:SenorMexicano|<span style="color:#850FFA; text-shadow: 0px 0px 3px green">'''Señor'''</span> <span style="color:#850FFA;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px green">'''Mexicano'''</span>]] ''[[User talk:SenorMexicano|<span style="color:lightpurple;text-shadow:0px 0px 2px lightgreen">(talk)</span>]]'' 19:05, February 17, 2023 (EST)
-This seems open and shut, bumping for a last call in case anyone has a good oppose, will delete in 24ish hours if no such opposition comes up. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[File: TyranitarMS.png ]] 19:12, February 18, 2023 (EST)
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