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| :I know that this is the first article of its kind on SmashWiki, but I think it would be more productive to consider writing articles about other famous tournament sets, rather than trying to delete one because "none others exist yet" ([[SmashWiki is not complete]] anyways). Of course this could open up a path where short stubs of matches get randomly created, but I think based on that it should be clear if a set has enough content to deserve a standalone page (plus there are probably only a handful of sets that deserve their own article). '''[[User:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">Awesome</span>]] [[User talk:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">Cardinal 2000</span>]]''' 16:33, December 6, 2020 (EST) | | :I know that this is the first article of its kind on SmashWiki, but I think it would be more productive to consider writing articles about other famous tournament sets, rather than trying to delete one because "none others exist yet" ([[SmashWiki is not complete]] anyways). Of course this could open up a path where short stubs of matches get randomly created, but I think based on that it should be clear if a set has enough content to deserve a standalone page (plus there are probably only a handful of sets that deserve their own article). '''[[User:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">Awesome</span>]] [[User talk:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">Cardinal 2000</span>]]''' 16:33, December 6, 2020 (EST) |
| ::This comment isn't about the merge but more about articles like this in the future. This set is notable in that it was the result of beef between two top players and also has a lasting legacy; the same can be said about the Wombo Combo. However, what's the difference between a "notable" set and a "memorable" set? For example, is Nairo v. ZeRo at MLG 2015 considered notable? On one hand, it's the first time ZeRo lost a tournament in ''Smash 4'', but on the other hand it was just that. There wasn't much that built up to it, there's not much legacy, heck this set is probably taboo now because of the recent allegations. But because of that one thing it's considered one of Smash 4's most important sets. Should it get a page? In my opinion, there should be a clear line between the two before creating more pages like this. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 17:02, December 6, 2020 (EST)
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| :::There's nothing inherently wrong with mentions of iconic/notable/memorable sets (Unknown522 vs Mew2King at RoM5 and CaptainZack vs Lima at EVO 2018, both of which are already mentioned on-wiki, come to mind); I just think that there's less incentive to make full pages out of these. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: red;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: green;">'''the Festive Rurouni'''</span>]] 17:17, December 6, 2020 (EST)
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| :::I think it would be better on a case-by-case basis. Obviously anyone can make an article about any set they want, but if you can't describe it in more than a few sentences, it probably should be merged. Deleting/merging short stubs is normally not great, but for these kinds of articles I think it's okay to merge low-effort pages that worsen the quality of the site (similar to how we don't approve of those "'XXXX' is a smasher from Y state" articles).
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| :::I think the best policy for now would be to keep memorable sets in the tournament/smasher article, until someone writes a substantial enough article on them, after which they could be split into their own page. Writing about tournament stories (beyond just placings and data points) is something I've always wanted to do more of anyways, and back when I was more active, I added tournament summaries to many articles like here at {{Trn|SKTAR 3}} and {{Trn|Get On My Level 2016}}. '''[[User:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">Awesome</span>]] [[User talk:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">Cardinal 2000</span>]]''' 18:32, December 6, 2020 (EST)
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| ::::...I think it's a poor mindset to think that "anyone can make an article about any set they want," not just because of quality issues (as you mentioned), but because that creates another gray line that has, frankly, [[List of rumors|already existed for a long time]]: where is the line drawn between what is and isn't notable?
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| ::::I also think that it is incredibly redundant to make a separate page for a topic that can easily be covered in another; if people are going to look for a set, they would no doubt want to find the tournament it came from, since that is much more specific, right? There's countless numbers of sets had between players (especially now, seeing as how large the community is), so one would want to look for the tournament that the set was in, even if they can't specifically remember the players. People aren't going to look for a page relating to Hungrybox getting carded in his set with SFAT, they'll look for the page on EVO 2017, the tournament where it happened. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: red;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: green;">'''the Festive Rurouni'''</span>]] 18:58, December 6, 2020 (EST)
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| :::::I think we're on the same page here. My thing about how anyone can create their own article was more of an extreme hypothetical case that could change things in the long term, but probably doesn't matter much right now (I guess I shouldn't have brought it up). I agree with the Hungrybox vs. SFAT case that it's better as a subsection of EVO 2017, since I probably couldn't write more than a few sentences about it. '''[[User:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">Awesome</span>]] [[User talk:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">Cardinal 2000</span>]]''' 19:09, December 6, 2020 (EST)
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| (reset indent) I guess one way is to see what people remember about the set. When people think of Hbox v. SFAT they think about the stupid EVO ruling. When people think about Zack v. Lima they think about how Bayo ruined the game. In the end they all tie back to the game and tournament. But for Leffen v. Chillin, people remember Respect Your Elders, the trash talk, My B, basically stuff that goes beyond ''Smash''. This is also why I believe this page should be about Respect Your Elders, since when people think about the set that's most likely the first thing they think of. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 20:49, December 6, 2020 (EST)
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| :I guess this is a tough case as well, but I think the set + the events surrounding it are notable enough to be their own article, and since the diss track was a part of the buildup, rather than the other way around, it makes more sense for me to have it as a section. And a lot of the trash + My B had nothing to do with the diss track. '''[[User:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">Awesome</span>]] [[User talk:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">Cardinal 2000</span>]]''' 23:54, December 6, 2020 (EST)
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