Editing Talk:L-canceling

I was under the impression that L-Canceling was so named due to the most common button used to activate it, ' L'.<BR>-Is there any truth to this theory? -[[User:Zixor|Zixor]] ([[User talk:Zixor|talk]]) 17:37, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
:Initially, I believed the same thing.  Now however, I believe L-Canceling is named so because L-Canceling removes landing lag.  Therefore, I believe the L in L-Canceling is short for Lag.  [[User:Y462|Y462]] <small>([[User talk:Y462|T]] • [[Special:Contributions/Y462|C]]  • [[Special:Editcount/Y462|E]] )</small> 17:41, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

== [[Super Smash Bros Brawl]] ==
Why L-cancel were removed from SSBB? --[[User:CaioNV|CaioNV]] ([[User talk:CaioNV|talk]]) 23:50, December 18, 2009 (UTC)

:Go ask [[Sakurai]]. We didn't remove it, and we don't know either. '''[[User:RAN1|<font color="darkred">R</font>]][[User talk:RAN1|<font color="navy">A</font>]][[Special:Contributions/RAN1|<font color="darkgreen">N</font>]]1''' 23:55, December 18, 2009 (UTC)

== Smooth Landing ==

On the original Smash 64 site, it refers to L-cancelling as [http://web.archive.org/web/19991117180837/http://smashbros.com/moves_advattacklanding.html '''"Smooth Landing"''']. Should that be in this article? [[User:Anthony1996|Anthony1996]] ([[User talk:Anthony1996|talk]]) 01:20, 29 September 2011 (EDT)

== 20 Frames? ==
Is this number for BOTH Smash64 and Melee? Or just one of them?
I've also seen different numbers elsewhere, such as http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/L-canceling
"To L-cancel, press L, R, or Z (only Z and R work in SSB) within six (6) frames of landing on the ground while the character is still performing an aerial attack."
and also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVA4PuYQNko
"(...) seven (7) frames or less before you hit the ground"
[[Special:Contributions/173.228.18.240|173.228.18.240]] 23:47, 6 February 2013 (EST)
:Well that's why the cleanup tag is there; because the 20 frames someone put up here seems like way too much for either game. I think I remember the SSB64 value being 4 actually, I'll see if I can find it. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Spectrum 00:25, 7 February 2013 (EST)

It's actually 11 frames. I love how I find stuff when I'm not looking for it. I was basically messing around with the aerial flag to increase Link's Up B and found the frame counter for L canceling. Here's the assembly code and addresses for anyone who wants to look at it or make a gameshark code to change it.
0x0160 is the offset for the frame counter variable of the player pointer. So if the address of Player 1's Pointer points to 8027E928, then the address of the frame counter for Player 1 = 8027E928 + 160 = 8027EA88 .

80150A38 LW   T6, 0x0160 (V1) ; This line of code loads the frame counter. 

80150A3C SLTI AT, T6, 0x000B ; This line of code sets if T6 < 11, AT = 1, otherwise AT = 0

80150A40 BNEL AT, R0, 0x80150AC0 ; If AT = 1 (if L cancelled successfully), then it branches to the address of 80150AC0. Otherwise it doesn't branch over.

This also applies to teching as well, because when I froze the CPU's frame counter, the CPU always teched and L cancelled. Basically, when you press Z or R, you reset the counter to 0. [[User:Madao|Madao]] ([[User talk:Madao|talk]]) 17:07, 29 August 2013 (EDT)

:Sign your comments with the four tidles (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>). [[User:Scr7|<span style="color:#0000FF"">S</span><span style="color:#7F7FFF">c</span><span style="color:#00FFFF">r</span><span style="color:#FF7F00">7</span>]][[File:Scr7 sig.png|link=]]([[User talk:Scr7|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Scr7|contribs]]) 16:54, 29 August 2013 (EDT)

Is this 11 frames for SSB64 or SSBM? [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Indescribable 22:58, 30 August 2013 (EDT)

:The 11 frame window is for SSB64. [[User:Madao|Madao]] ([[User talk:Madao|talk]]) 23:39, 30 August 2013 (EDT)
::Correction, the teching window for SSB64 is 20 frames. It checks the same variable, but the if statement is at a different address.[[User:Madao|Madao]] ([[User talk:Madao|talk]]) 04:56, 7 October 2013 (EDT)

== Land cancel frames ==

the page for land cancelling is a bit unclear about how to land cancel.  afaik, you have 11 frames before landing in 64, and 6 frames before(or the first frame of) landing in melee. im not 100% otherwise i would change it. can someone confirm and edit? <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:DJLO|DJLO]] ([[User talk:DJLO|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/DJLO|contribs]]) 11:19, 24 September 2013 (EDT)</small>
:Place questions on the proper talk page, and remember to sign all your talkpage posts.
:As you can see in the above discussion, the 11-frame value is certainly for SSB64, and there's talk about the SSBM value being 6. So yes something (the SSBM value) does need to be confirmed and clarified. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Keymaster 11:25, 24 September 2013 (EDT)
:According to Kadano, the window for Melee is 7 frames before landing, and doesn't include the frame you land. [http://smashboards.com/threads/official-faq-and-qna-thread-ask-your-questions-here.230020/page-98#post-15942591 link] (I'm considering his former interpretation, as myself and others think that makes the most sense and is least confusing.) I'm updating the page with this. [[User:DRGN|DRGN]] ([[User talk:DRGN|talk]]) 05:57, 20 November 2013 (EST)

== Rediscovery of L-Canceling ==

Hey guys, you know how you said it was absent in Brawl? Well, it's '''possible''' that it's not absent in Brawl. In fact, I have been testing for three days on this, and have found out that you could '''indeed''' L-Cancel in ''Brawl''. However, I may have to note that it's possibly different than 64 or Melee's. Your opinions and questions, first of all, should be considered priority. [[User:Requiem of Ice|Requiem of Ice]] ([[User talk:Requiem of Ice|talk]]) 17:22, 2 March 2014 (EST)
:Then why am I hearing criticism from competitive Melee players that L-canceling is not in Brawl? [[User:Dots|<font color="red">'''D'''</font><font color="green">'''o'''</font><font color="blue">'''t'''</font><font color="purple">'''s'''</font>]] ([[User talk:Dots|talk]]) [[File:Link OoT Dots.PNG|16px]] The Kamehameha 17:35, 2 March 2014 (EST)
:Virtually everyone agrees that L-cancelling does not exist in Brawl. You gotta provide some serious evidence and videos if you want to prove yourself... [[User:Scr7|<span style="color:#0000FF"">S</span><span style="color:#7F7FFF">c</span><span style="color:#00FFFF">r</span><span style="color:#FF7F00">7</span>]][[File:Scr7 sig.png|link=]]([[User talk:Scr7|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Scr7|contribs]]) 17:36, 2 March 2014 (EST)
::Alright. Though my words don't give a sense of evidence, I will prove this later on with videos. See, L-Cancelling in Brawl works much more differently than it does in Melee. You have to mash and hold either or both the L or R button (both is preferred) just as the character hits the ground in the middle of the attack animation. What this results in, is the character being able to shield at earlier frames than normal. Take Link's Down Aerial, for instance; normally, it's relatively slow. However by mashing and holding the L and/or R buttons right as he lands, you are able to shield at earlier frames. I will get video proof to verify this. [[User:Requiem of Ice|Requiem of Ice]] ([[User talk:Requiem of Ice|talk]]) 17:42, 2 March 2014 (EST)
:::Are you sure this isn't [[IASA|IASA frames]]? [[User:Scr7|<span style="color:#0000FF"">S</span><span style="color:#7F7FFF">c</span><span style="color:#00FFFF">r</span><span style="color:#FF7F00">7</span>]][[File:Scr7 sig.png|link=]]([[User talk:Scr7|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Scr7|contribs]]) 17:44, 2 March 2014 (EST)
::::Positive, as I am reviewing my tapes and records, I notice Link's sword comes out a bit faster when I used the L and R buttons. However, the IASA frames could explain the shielding at the early frame parts. But I can't explain Link's sword being pulled out faster after using the D-Air. I'm going to try and catch this again and come back with a full analysis and explanation, and then the videos (once I can locate a certain SD card). [[User:Requiem of Ice|Requiem of Ice]] ([[User talk:Requiem of Ice|talk]]) 17:55, 2 March 2014 (EST)

Absolute bullshit. The game has been probed in and out for the past 5 years now. Top players in Brawl, players who know the game like the back of their hands will never claim something as absurd as this. And consider Project M. They manually REWROTE the code to add L canceling back in. With that in mind, how can you say L Canceling is secretly in the game and we're all just bad.--<span style="background-color:#6d84e1;border:3px solid silver">[[User:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:silver">'''Brian'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:black">Don't try me!</span>]]</sup>[[File:Falco.gif|link=|27px]]</span> 18:05, 2 March 2014 (EST)
:I didn't say anyone was bad. Looking at my videos, I can clearly see that the sword is being pulled out a tad faster when using the L button. However, the shielding early part is explained by IASA frames, but the sword pulled out faster cannot be. And you say probed in and out, when that is an absolute fallacy in its own words. And of course, did you read what I said at top, I said possible, not probable. There's multiple ways to explain what happened.

:This may be off topic, but have you tried moving the control stick left or right while tripping to nullify the second part of the animation? Or have you slid across FD while walking and continuously turning? We may have probed a lot of what Brawl has, but we surely haven't gotten all of it, not just yet. There are still many things we have not uncovered in Brawl. [[User:Requiem of Ice|Requiem of Ice]] ([[User talk:Requiem of Ice|talk]]) 18:08, 2 March 2014 (EST)

::No, you're just seeing things. L Canceling has been 100% proven to be absent from the game by people who altered the game's code. And probed in and out is an expression. It means people have thoroughly explored every aspect of the game. How can you say we haven't discovered everything, really? You have no evidence and no experience at high level play. At this point given how people have figured out how to change the game to add things that aren't in the game, really nothing really new can be discovered about the game. And no you can't "nullify" tripping. What you probably did was a roll after you trip. Tripping puts you in a state where you have 4 options none of which help you. You can get up without doing anything, get up attack, roll left, or roll right. When you move the control stick left or right, you buffered a roll. --<span style="background-color:#6d84e1;border:3px solid silver">[[User:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:silver">'''Brian'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:black">Don't try me!</span>]]</sup>[[File:Falco.gif|link=|27px]]</span> 18:19, 2 March 2014 (EST)
::Dude, its been '''5 years''' since Brawl released (infact '''6 years''' by a week later). During that long period of time, Many players went deep inside the game with all the modding they did to it and other competitive stuff such as the tier lists. Universally many should know by now L-canceling doesn't exist in Brawl, even when they probably tried to they still can't pull it off. [[User:Dots|<font color="red">'''D'''</font><font color="green">'''o'''</font><font color="blue">'''t'''</font><font color="purple">'''s'''</font>]] ([[User talk:Dots|talk]]) [[File:Link OoT Dots.PNG|16px]] The Metal Slug 18:22, 2 March 2014 (EST)
:::Of course, I see. I may have been mistaken about the L-Cancelling. Playing for three days in Brawl could have affected me in such a way that I could have been seeing things.

:::But let's get onto the notion about the nullified second part of random tripping (what I call scorpion). I was using Bowser on Brawl trying to catch how to do it. Apparently when you accidentally trip, you can nullify the second part by moving left or right with the control stick '''right as''' you hit the ground on the first frames; this resulted in Bowser moving backward to prone position instead of completing the full trip.

:::So how can you buffer a roll...when your character accidentally trips '''forward''' and you make him '''sit/go prone backwards'''? Explain. [[User:Requiem of Ice|Requiem of Ice]] ([[User talk:Requiem of Ice|talk]]) 18:31, 2 March 2014 (EST)
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 :::But let's get onto the notion about the nullified second part of random tripping (what I call scorpion). I was using Bowser on Brawl trying to catch how to do it. Apparently when you accidentally trip, you can nullify the second part by moving left or right with the control stick '''right as''' you hit the ground on the first frames; this resulted in Bowser moving backward to prone position instead of completing the full trip.
-:::So how can you buffer a roll...when your character accidentally trips '''forward''' and you make him '''sit/go prone backwards'''? Explain. (Anyways, playing for three days, gotta sleep.) [[User:Requiem of Ice|Requiem of Ice]] ([[User talk:Requiem of Ice|talk]]) 18:31, 2 March 2014 (EST)
+:::So how can you buffer a roll...when your character accidentally trips '''forward''' and you make him '''sit/go prone backwards'''? Explain. [[User:Requiem of Ice|Requiem of Ice]] ([[User talk:Requiem of Ice|talk]]) 18:31, 2 March 2014 (EST)
-What was happening was, since you were holding shield, your character brought up their shield the first frame they can act. And since you're not frame precise, of course you're not going to bring the shield up as fast trying to manually hit shield after landing.
-All this text and bashing here wasn't necessary, when the explanation was a simple misunderstanding. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 04:25, 3 March 2014 (EST)
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