Editing Talk:Kongo Jungle

==Familiar Stage Status==
I just rewatched the Direct to make sure this was in it, since I don't remember it being there, and I couldn't find it at all. Are we sure this is a Familiar Stage? [[User:Nintendocan|Nintendocan]] ([[User talk:Nintendocan|talk]]) 20:58, 23 October 2014 (EDT)
:It's on the official site. {{s|user|PikaSamus}} ([[User talk:PikaSamus|talk]]) [[File:PikaSamusSig.png|12px|link=Special:Contributions/PikaSamus|PikaSamus]] 20:58, 23 October 2014 (EDT)

I don't see it on the site. [[User:Pac attack|Pac attack]] ([[User talk:Pac attack|talk]]) 17:54, 25 October 2014 (EDT)  [[User:Pac attack|Pac attack]] ([[User talk:Pac attack|talk]]) 17:54, 25 October 2014 (EDT)
:Should it be mentioned this is the only known 64 stage returning that we know of in the trivia[[User:Darre|Darre]] ([[User talk:Darre|talk]]) 17:54, 26 October 2014 (EDT)

== Congo Jungle or Kongo Jungle 64? ==

What is this stage called in SSB4?<br/>
[[User:Zrksyd|Zrksyd]] ([[User talk:Zrksyd|talk]]) 13:39, 9 November 2014 (EST)

I personally would think it's just called "Congo Jungle", but I'm not going to take a risk changing it. --[[User:HiHiCyclyn|HiHiCyclyn]] ([[User talk:HiHiCyclyn|talk]]) 13:47, 9 November 2014 (EST)
:"Kongo Jungle 64". We're going to have to think carefully about this page's name, but it's not getting moved for now. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 13:53, 9 November 2014 (EST)
::I wish we had good pictures instead of indirect pictures of the stage.<br/>
::[[User:Zrksyd|Zrksyd]] ([[User talk:Zrksyd|talk]]) 14:26, 9 November 2014 (EST)
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcvZyB6Uy0o Kongo Jungle 64] 1:18. I do think we need a rename of this stage though to '''Kongo Jungle (SSB)''' as the error was corrected in Melee and remains corrected in SSB4. Having the name of the page be based off a mistake probably isn't best even if that's how it was in the original. [[User:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#FF0000">Unknown </font>]] [[User talk:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#780000">the </font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#000000">Hedgehog</font>]] 14:42, 9 November 2014 (EST)

I suggested this [[Talk:Kongo Jungle#Proposed moves...|in the past]] but Miles shot me down at the time. Now that there are two games that name it with a 'K' rather than just one with a 'C', I'm going to again say we should move it to '''Kongo Jungle (SSB)''' [[Image:VinSymbol.png|16px|link=User:VinLAURiA]][[User:VinLAURiA|VinLAURiA]] ([[User talk:VinLAURiA|talk]]) 21:59, 9 November 2014 (EST)
:The current 2-to-1 is what's leaning me towards saying we should move it. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 22:02, 9 November 2014 (EST)
::If we're going to move it, I'd really prefer '''Kongo Jungle 64''' more than '''Kongo Jungle (SSB)'''. And if we use that we wouldn't have to move {{SSBM|Kongo Jungle}}, just add a little "you may be looking for" thing. But even if everyone calls me an idiot for this, it should definitely be moved to one of the two. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:Nutta Butta|Nutta.]] </small> 22:04, 9 November 2014 (EST)
:::I think '''Kongo Jungle 64''' makes more sense.<br/>
:::[[User:Zrksyd|Zrksyd]] ([[User talk:Zrksyd|talk]]) 22:13, 9 November 2014 (EST)
::::I say we follow normal our usual naming conventions here: Kongo Jungle (SSB) and Kongo Jungle (SSBM). As I said in the past, for consistency's sake. [[Image:VinSymbol.png|16px|link=User:VinLAURiA]][[User:VinLAURiA|VinLAURiA]] ([[User talk:VinLAURiA|talk]]) 22:31, 9 November 2014 (EST)
:::::"Kongo Jungle 64" is out of the question. "Congo Jungle" or "Kongo Jungle (SSB)" are the only viable options. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 00:34, 10 November 2014 (EST)
::::::Well, everyone seems to agree that we at the very least shouldn't leave it with a 'C' anymore. [[Image:VinSymbol.png|16px|link=User:VinLAURiA]][[User:VinLAURiA|VinLAURiA]] ([[User talk:VinLAURiA|talk]]) 02:24, 10 November 2014 (EST)
:::::::I agree with Miles that "Kongo Jungle 64" wouldn't be right, and that "Kongo Jungle (SSB)" would be more consistent. [[User:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#FF0000">Unknown </font>]] [[User talk:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#780000">the </font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#000000">Hedgehog</font>]] 11:54, 10 November 2014 (EST)
::::::::If the game calls it "Kongo Jungle 64", then shouldn't we use the official name? [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]] [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Gamer'''</span>]] 11:57, 10 November 2014 (EST)
:::::::::Only SSB4 refers to it as that; it is simply called "Kongo Jungle" in SSB and Melee (obviously not counting the spelling error in SSB). "Kongo Jungle" is a more generic name for the stage that makes it relevant for all of its appearances. The "(SSB)" is simply to clarify which Kongo Jungle we're referring to. And also, [[SW:OFFICIAL|Smashwiki is not official]]. [[User:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#FF0000">Unknown </font>]] [[User talk:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#780000">the </font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#000000">Hedgehog</font>]] 12:07, 10 November 2014 (EST)
<nowiki>*</nowiki>resets indent* Yea, you do have a point there. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]] [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Gamer'''</span>]] 12:28, 10 November 2014 (EST)
:As a side note, I do believe, however, that calling it "Kongo Jungle 64" would be appropriate when talking specifically about its appearance in SSB4 (such as how it is named "Kongo Jungle 64" on [[Stage]], [[Super Smash Bros. 4]], {{forwiiu}}, etc.). [[User:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#FF0000">Unknown </font>]] [[User talk:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#780000">the </font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#000000">Hedgehog</font>]] 12:37, 10 November 2014 (EST)
Is this safe to move, or are there more thoughts on the topic? [[User:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#FF0000">Unknown </font>]] [[User talk:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#780000">the </font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#000000">Hedgehog</font>]] 23:17, 10 November 2014 (EST)
:While I like how this page is called by its original name, it is less likely to be used when referring to this stage than, say, Kongo Jungle 64 or Kongo Jungle (SSB). I '''support''' the move. Also, does this mean that [[75 m]] will be changed as well? [[User:Lumastar|<span style="color:junglegreen">Lumastar</span>]] ([[User talk:Lumastar|<span style="color:blue>talk]]) [[Image: Lumastar Green Luma.jpg|30px ]]
::That is being discussed [[Talk:75 m|here]]. [[User:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#FF0000">Unknown </font>]] [[User talk:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#780000">the </font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#000000">Hedgehog</font>]] 01:13, 11 November 2014 (EST)

It ''is'' called Kongo Jungle 64 in the Melee random stage select. {{s|user|PikaSamus}} ([[User talk:PikaSamus|talk]]) [[File:PikaSamusSig.png|12px|link=Special:Contributions/PikaSamus|PikaSamus]] 13:31, 11 November 2014 (EST)
:Probably to differentiate it from the new one without taking too much space. Yoshi's Island (SSB) got the same treatment. Full name in the actual stage select is Past Stages: Kongo Jungle. And if you wanna be technical, I just checked my copy: it actually uses the 'N64' suffix for old stages rather than just '64' in the random toggle, so it's not really a point in the '64' name's favor. [[Image:VinSymbol.png|16px|link=User:VinLAURiA]][[User:VinLAURiA|VinLAURiA]] ([[User talk:VinLAURiA|talk]]) 02:43, 12 November 2014 (EST)

I fail to see why Kongo Jungle 64 is so out of the question. Why would we move it to an unofficial title that I feel is more complicated when we have an official title that means the exact same thing? <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:Nutta Butta|Nutta.]] </small> 09:32, 12 November 2014 (EST)

I should double check things. >_< {{s|user|PikaSamus}} ([[User talk:PikaSamus|talk]]) [[File:PikaSamusSig.png|12px|link=Special:Contributions/PikaSamus|PikaSamus]] 09:37, 12 November 2014 (EST)

I should probably have made my stance clear. I '''support''' a move to '''Kongo Jungle 64'''. {{s|user|PikaSamus}} ([[User talk:PikaSamus|talk]]) [[File:PikaSamusSig.png|12px|link=Special:Contributions/PikaSamus|PikaSamus]] 09:59, 12 November 2014 (EST)

I'll breakdown why I believe "Kongo Jungle (SSB)" would be the best option rather than "Kongo Jungle 64":
*This stage has four official names: Congo Jungle, Past Stages: Kongo Jungle, Past Stages: Kongo Jungle N64*, and Kongo Jungle 64. (*Refer to VinLAURiA's post above)
*When correcting the spelling error from SSB and removing "Past Stages:", as the Wiki has from the article titles, we get: Kongo Jungle, Kongo Jungle, Kongo Jungle N64, and Kongo Jungle 64.
*As we can see, the only thing that is consistent throughout the games has been that the stage has been called "Kongo Jungle", and in at least two instances it is simply called "Kongo Jungle" (again, spelling error accounted for).
*The only difference has been the suffix between Melee and SSB4; Melee = "N64", SSB4 = "64". Also, the "N64" suffix in Melee is true for Yoshi's Island and Dream Land, but they still have the "(SSB)" suffix in the title.
*The article title having the SmashWiki standard "(SSB-)" suffix would be consistent with all other article stages that are different stages with the same name (such as [[Yoshi's Island]] and [[Mushroom Kingdom]]).
*[[SW:OFFICIAL|Smashwiki is not official]], and even if we were there's only one game that officially refers to it as "Kongo Jungle 64". [[User:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#FF0000">Unknown </font>]] [[User talk:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#780000">the </font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#000000">Hedgehog</font>]] 10:40, 12 November 2014 (EST)
Let's just do a poll!
[[User:Zrksyd|Zrksyd]] ([[User talk:Zrksyd|talk]]) 10:50, 12 November 2014 (EST)
:I think it would be wise to follow Wikipedia's model of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Polling_is_not_a_substitute_for_discussion polling is not a substitute for discussion]. [[User:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#FF0000">Unknown </font>]] [[User talk:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#780000">the </font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#000000">Hedgehog</font>]] 11:01, 12 November 2014 (EST)

I '''support''' moving to '''Kongo Jungle (SSB)''', for the reasons listed above by Unknown the Hedgehog. [[User:Mistiryshak|Mistiryshak]] ([[User talk:Mistiryshak|talk]]) 10:59, 12 November 2014 (EST)
:It doesn't have Past Stages: in front of Kongo Jungle N64 (in Melee), but whatever. That argument is good, so I'll support it. {{s|user|PikaSamus}} ([[User talk:PikaSamus|talk]]) [[File:PikaSamusSig.png|12px|link=Special:Contributions/PikaSamus|PikaSamus]] 11:04, 12 November 2014 (EST)
::[http://www.spriters-resource.com/resources/sheets/2/1602.png It actually did]. Awhile back, the Wiki used to refer to stages by the name/location that was named above the stage (such as [[Eagleland: Onett]]). We even had [[Mushroom: Kingdom]] as that's how it is strangely called in Melee, but I'm a bit off topic now. [[User:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#FF0000">Unknown </font>]] [[User talk:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#780000">the </font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#000000">Hedgehog</font>]] 11:12, 12 November 2014 (EST)
:::I was talking about specifically with N64 at the end (in the Random Stage Switch). It didn't have it with past stages. {{s|user|PikaSamus}} ([[User talk:PikaSamus|talk]]) [[File:PikaSamusSig.png|12px|link=Special:Contributions/PikaSamus|PikaSamus]] 11:45, 12 November 2014 (EST)
Is it safe to move? There's 7 supports that I can count, and 2 opposes. [[User:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#FF0000">Unknown </font>]] [[User talk:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#780000">the </font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#000000">Hedgehog</font>]] 14:05, 14 November 2014 (EST)

I'm moving it. 7:2 in support is a much larger consensus than the 2:1 in opposition from last time. [[Image:VinSymbol.png|16px|link=User:VinLAURiA]][[User:VinLAURiA|VinLAURiA]] ([[User talk:VinLAURiA|talk]]) 14:53, 14 November 2014 (EST)

A few people have asked me to make a post here since I haven't yet - which is because I'm squarely on the fence. There is precedent for moving a page to a newer name - namely, [[Super Star]] from "Starman" - and this case should be stronger because the newer name is used more than the older name (unlike Super Star). However, a returning stage is a different matter - stages tend to be more firmly rooted in specific games than other elements (everyone says "Delfino Plaza is a Brawl stage", but no one says that "Assist Trophy is a Brawl item" or "Zelda is a Melee character"), and keeping the "C" spelling has the additional advantage of not resorting to the "Name (game)" format. So yeah, lotta words with no results. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Steppin' 16:01, 14 November 2014 (EST)
:As we've said, it's more consistent this way. Plus, with now the majority of the games featuring it using the 'K' spelling, it's pretty clear the original was a typo. As I said last time this was brought up, we don't call the original Battlefield and Final Destination articles Duel Zone and Master Hand's Residence (because, as Miles said last time, the latter incarnations were consistent with the naming, as this now is), and there's really no point in keeping the typo name just for differentiation. Let's stay with the conventions we've established for every other stage here. [[Image:VinSymbol.png|16px|link=User:VinLAURiA]][[User:VinLAURiA|VinLAURiA]] ([[User talk:VinLAURiA|talk]]) 17:28, 14 November 2014 (EST)

... So... is there a verdict yet? It's five days after the last post, so talk on the issue appears to have finished. [[Image:VinSymbol.png|16px|link=User:VinLAURiA]][[User:VinLAURiA|VinLAURiA]] ([[User talk:VinLAURiA|talk]]) 17:36, 19 November 2014 (EST)

Last chance for opposition to the move. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 23:32, 21 November 2014 (EST)

I'd just like to throw my support towards the change also. Congo Jungle, which is a real region, was obviously just there as an error. If Smash 64 had gotten revisions like OoT I bet it would have been fixed way back there too. Congo Jungle should just redirect. [[User:ZestyLemon|ZestyLemon]] ([[User talk:ZestyLemon|talk]]) 02:18, 23 November 2014 (EST)
:The Tips menu calls it "Kongo Jungle (64)", for move support. {{s|user|PikaSamus}} ([[User talk:PikaSamus|talk]]) [[File:PikaSamusSig.png|12px|link=Special:Contributions/PikaSamus|PikaSamus]] 09:25, 24 November 2014 (EST)

==Default Track List for {{forwiiu}}?==
In my search for the default track list for this stage, I found this image:
[[File:Kongo Jungle Potential Default Track List.png|50px]]
''Kongo Jungle'' is already in the [[Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS|3DS version]], and ''Donkey Kong Country Returns'' (arguably the least likely track on the list) was confirmed by one of Beanman's videos. I have already added ''DKCR'', but I would like to gain approval to add the other tracks to the main page.  [[User:Lumastar|<span style="color:junglegreen">Lumastar</span>]] ([[User talk:Lumastar|<span style="color:blue>talk]]) [[Image: Lumastar Green Luma.jpg|30px ]]
:That image is for the Wii U version, though. <span style="background-color:orange;border:2px solid blue;border-radius:7px;">[[User:Rtzxy|<span style="color:yellow">'''Rtzxy'''</span>]] [[File:Reflect.jpg|x20px]] [[User talk:Rtzxy|<span style="color:brown">'''''Reflect!!!'''</span>]]</span> 23:35, 10 November 2014 (EST)
::I say that in the title. I was just pointing out that Kongo Jungle was brought back for the 3DS version as well. [[User:Lumastar|<span style="color:junglegreen">Lumastar</span>]] ([[User talk:Lumastar|<span style="color:blue>talk]]) [[Image: Lumastar Green Luma.jpg|30px ]] [[User:Lumastar|Lumastar]] ([[User talk:Lumastar|talk]]) 07:55, 11 November 2014 (EST)
I found a video with an interesting point related to this stage and [[Smashville]]: https://youtube.com/watch?v=EqS_TmDIak0. Notice how a large amount of songs for both the Donkey Kong and Animal Crossing franchises are all labelled NEW (meaning they had to be unlocked). Also notice how the song leaked for Kongo Jungle 64 are all labelled NEW (in addition to ''Donkey Kong Country Returns (Vocal Mix)'', which 1) was originally thought to appear on [[Jungle Hijinxs]] but is not on the default track list and 2) would fit well on the stage that has been confirmed to contain the original version through Beanman25jr's footage of the stage). As for the Animal Crossing tracks, they all appeared on Smashville in ''[[Super Smash Bros. Brawl|Brawl]]'' (except for ''Tortimer Island Melody''). I have what I think to be a strong hypothesis about what this means: these tracks are all starters on Kongo Jungle 64 and Smashville, respectively. While it is harder to confirm since the tracks are all from different franchises, it should be pointed out that a large influx of NES tracks labelled with NEW appear around the end of the list and could be starters on the [[Duck Hunt]] stage. If there is no opposition, I would like to go under the assumption that the My Music leak is correct and that the tracks from the image all appear on this stage. We can handle the other two stages later. [[Image: Lumastar Green Luma.jpg|30px ]] [[User:Lumastar|Lumastar]] ([[User talk:Lumastar|talk]]) 23:38, 14 November 2014 (EST)

== Visibility ==

How are certain colors for characters hard to see if the player cursor is always above them? [[User:KirbysCrazyAppetite|Kirby's Crazy Appetite]] ~ [[File:KirbysCrazyAppetiteSig.png|50x20px]] 09:59, 2 November 2016 (EDT)
:The cursor is only shown when the camera is zoomed far out. Plus, it might still be hard to see what exactly the character is doing. [[File:Zyrac sig.png]] <font face="Lucida Console">[[User:Zyrac|<font color="green">'''Zyrac'''</font>]]<small>([[User talk:Zyrac|<font color="green">talk</font>]]•[[Special:Contributions/Zyrac|<font color="green">contribs</font>]])</small></font> 10:05, 2 November 2016 (EDT)

== Tournament Legality ==

Honestly, I think this stage should be allowed in tournaments as the lighting has improved since SSB1, so you can easily see characters, and the stage itself doesn't contain any truly disruptive features. --[[User:JackyBlooo|JackyBlooo]] ([[User talk:JackyBlooo|talk]]) 10:30, 23 February 2019 (EST)
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	Honestly, I think this stage should be allowed in tournaments as the lighting has improved since SSB1, so you can easily see characters, and the stage itself doesn't contain any truly disruptive features. --[[User:JackyBlooo\|JackyBlooo]] ([[User talk:JackyBlooo\|talk]]) 10:30, 23 February 2019 (EST)		Honestly, I think this stage should be allowed in tournaments as the lighting has improved since SSB1, so you can easily see characters, and the stage itself doesn't contain any truly disruptive features. --[[User:JackyBlooo\|JackyBlooo]] ([[User talk:JackyBlooo\|talk]]) 10:30, 23 February 2019 (EST)
	:For the time being, no major tournaments have allowed this to be legal, so that's why it's stated as banned on our wiki. [[User:SugarCookie420\|<span style="font-family:Times New Roman"><span style="color: red;">SugarCookie</span></span>]] [[User talk:SugarCookie420\|<span style="font-family:Impact"><span style="color: green;">420</span></span>]] 10:32, 23 February 2019 (EST)
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