Editing Talk:Knee Smash

"Inherent masculinity"?!  This is supposed to be an encyclopedia entry?  Unless Captain Falcon's knee is really a penis, why is this even in the article?--[[User:Toddcam|Toddcam]] 21:11, August 15, 2007 (EDT)

I understand that Captain Falcon is a very popular character, and his knee was his most most famed aspect, but why do we need an article for one character's forward aerial? How come no other character has an entire article for their forward air, just specials?

I don't believe this article is needed. 9:00, March 12, 2009 (EDT)
:Perhaps it needs a redirect and a section on CF's page. However, it was in both Melee and Brawl. - [[User:Gargomon251|Gargomon251]] ([[User talk:Gargomon251|talk]]) 17:18, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

::Agreed. My page about Ness's side smash was deleted so this one should be too. It's not a special attack. [[Special:Contributions/98.117.158.220|98.117.158.220]] 18:52, November 22, 2009 (UTC)

==Deletion==
Before we delete it, does ANYONE have an opinion? [[Special:Contributions/98.117.158.220|98.117.158.220]] 19:13, November 22, 2009 (UTC)
:It might not be a Special Move, but it's definitely notable - it's one of the things that makes Captain Falcon so good in ''Melee'', and its nerf is one of the things that makes him so bad in ''Brawl''. Another fact to take into consideration is that the move has gained considerable notoriety in the ''Smash'' community. The information is also presented well this way, and it'd be difficult to describe the move in this much detail in the Captain Falcon (SSBM) or Captain Falcon (SSBB) articles. I say '''keep''' it. '''''<span style="font-family:Arial;">[[User:PenguinofDeath|<font color="silver">Penguin</font>]][[User talk:PenguinofDeath|<font color="gray">of</font>]][[Special:Contributions/PenguinofDeath|<font color="silver">Death</font>]]</span>''''' 20:53, November 22, 2009 (UTC)
::So is Ness's side smash, but that article was deleted. In fact, his side smash can actually reflect projectiles, and '''that''' is one of his signiture moves also.
::PS: PoD, it seems that we've gotten off on the wrong foot. I don't want to get in another argument with you. [[Special:Contributions/98.117.158.220|98.117.158.220]] 21:25, November 22, 2009 (UTC)

::<s>'''No, don't keep it'''. Smashes and aerial attacks, such as G&W's B-air's been named the "turtle" by some. It's annoying, because of its high priority and slicing-turtle sound effect, etc, yet we don't have an article on it. Why? Because it isn't so much of an ''internet meme'' as "the knee". Internet memes go in the trivia section; they don't deserve an entire page dedicated to them. This is a rather large case of a meme, only because a large amount of it isn't actually needed. We have unneeded detail on Ganon's f-air, a reminder of priority in midair, as well as a reminder of what a short-time sweetspot is. That leaves us with a paragraph that can be explained in a trivia section. In conclusion, '''delete it'''. By the way, outside of my deletion argument, why does it say that the Knee is used at the end of his combos, whereas the next two paragraphs say that you can combo into other attacks from the Knee? Makes no sense..... '''[[User:RAN1|<font color="darkred">R</font>]][[User talk:RAN1|<font color="navy">A</font>]][[Special:Contributions/RAN1|<font color="darkgreen">N</font>]]1''' 21:36, November 22, 2009 (UTC)</s>
:::Who are you saying no to? [[Special:Contributions/98.117.158.220|98.117.158.220]] 22:48, November 22, 2009 (UTC)
::::Sorry about that. I meant it to PoD, but when I tried to save it, I got an edit conflict and ended up placing it after your comment. I forgot to leave a note there when I copied it over there, so I've left one now. Pardon me; I didn't want to cause any trouble. '''[[User:RAN1|<font color="darkred">R</font>]][[User talk:RAN1|<font color="navy">A</font>]][[Special:Contributions/RAN1|<font color="darkgreen">N</font>]]1''' 22:58, November 22, 2009 (UTC)
:::::You know, I'm still confused... Why are you saying "no" to me? And why did you say it in bold? :/
:::::Also, it's not just that it's a meme. The reason why we have a page on every Special Move isn't because of some innate characteristic that they and no other types of moves possess - it's because there's enough to say about them to merit a page. Read the Knee Smash article again, and tell me that it's lacking in information, then ask for it to be deleted. I think it's a good page with lots of useful information on it, so I think it should stay. '''''<span style="font-family:Arial;">[[User:PenguinofDeath|<font color="silver">Penguin</font>]][[User talk:PenguinofDeath|<font color="gray">of</font>]][[Special:Contributions/PenguinofDeath|<font color="silver">Death</font>]]</span>''''' 23:15, November 22, 2009 (UTC)


'''Keep.''' Explicitly named in a trophy description earns notability for me.  I'd even make [[Lightning Kick]] an article for the same reason. [[User:Miles.oppenheimer|<font color="orange"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="saddlebrown">([[User talk:Miles.oppenheimer|<font color="saddlebrown">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 23:13, November 22, 2009 (UTC)
:Well, given Miles' point above, I think I'll change my opinion on this, but I'll have to think about this harder later. Too much homework. On a <s>more ironic</s> less serious note: PoD, why did you bold "keep"? And why would I say no to that if I was opposing it? :s '''[[User:RAN1|<font color="darkred">R</font>]][[User talk:RAN1|<font color="navy">A</font>]][[Special:Contributions/RAN1|<font color="darkgreen">N</font>]]1''' 23:26, November 22, 2009 (UTC)
::That's not really sarcasm, as such... Anyways, I said "'''keep'''" (as did Miles) because that's how you do things like this. You say "'''keep'''" or "'''delete'''" at some point in the comment. It's so that people can quickly see where you stand on the matter. Support and Oppose section make discussion difficult, which is why we use this system instead. Also, I don't get that last sentence of yours - please explain. '''''<span style="font-family:Arial;">[[User:PenguinofDeath|<font color="silver">Penguin</font>]][[User talk:PenguinofDeath|<font color="gray">of</font>]][[Special:Contributions/PenguinofDeath|<font color="silver">Death</font>]]</span>''''' 23:47, November 22, 2009 (UTC)
:::Ok, since you did not get the point there: I was using irony in that last sentence, PoD, because I was thinking you would infer from "why did you bold 'keep'?" that I was being sarcastic. From there, I then said "And why would I say no to that if I was opposing it?", which was based on the fact that I revised my last comment to say "No (to PoD)"; as in "do not keep it". As for the "Oppose" comment: I don't believe that was necessary. It was already discussed on the IRC, and did not need more explanation as to why this system is used. Anyways, I've changed the comment to read more clearly now. Sorry for the confusion. '''[[User:RAN1|<font color="darkred">R</font>]][[User talk:RAN1|<font color="navy">A</font>]][[Special:Contributions/RAN1|<font color="darkgreen">N</font>]]1''' 01:13, November 23, 2009 (UTC)

:Isn't Ness's bat also mentioned in a trophy? [[Special:Contributions/98.117.158.220|98.117.158.220]] 23:42, November 22, 2009 (UTC)
::Well, even if it is, it's really nothing big to write about when compared to K.S.'s memetic and insane power properties. Also, how big would the article be in the first place? A sentence or two and a picture of the trophy of where it's mentioned would seem like a stub that won't grow anytime soon. <span style="font-family:Forte;">[[User:HavocReaper48|<font color="brown">Havoc</font>]][[User talk:HavocReaper48|<font color="brown">Reaper48</font>]][[User:HavocReaper48/Emoticonology|<font color="purepurple"> >:D!!!</font>]]</span> 19:55, November 23, 2009 (UTC)
::: We could write more than that. I actually had an article on this that was fairly long but it got deleted. We have two solutions: Delete this article, or keep it and add other notable attacks like Ness's side smash. I'm now more for number two. The reason why I made the article for Ness's side smash is because I saw this article. [[Special:Contributions/98.117.158.220|98.117.158.220]] 01:08, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
::::Ness's side smash has no official name from Nintendo.  Knee Smash does. [[User:Miles.oppenheimer|<font color="orange"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="saddlebrown">([[User talk:Miles.oppenheimer|<font color="saddlebrown">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 03:21, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
:::::I just used that as an example. There's other attacks that deserve attention. [[Special:Contributions/98.117.158.220|98.117.158.220]] 05:53, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
:::::Wait! I just found another solution. We can delete this page, and have one big page called "Notable moves" or something which lists all these attacks. Does anyone agree? [[Special:Contributions/98.117.158.220|98.117.158.220]] 02:07, November 25, 2009 (UTC)
::::::Meh...doesn't seem like it's gonna be that good...or a bit too long. If we had 5 attacks summarized like this one's in one page, the page would be about the size of an average SSBB char. page alone. 10 would be huge...but if you could find some official names (Apparently unoffical lingo ain't good in this case...) for moves, they could become their own pages with enough effort. I'd gladly help with that, Anon. And P.S., DO NAWT QUESTION TEH KNEE OF MANLYNESS, PLZ? KTHX.  <span style="font-family:Forte;">[[User:HavocReaper48|<font color="ROYALBLUE">Havoc</font>]][[User talk:HavocReaper48|<font color="ROYALBLUE">Reaper48</font>]][[User:HavocReaper48/Emoticonology|<font color="PURPLE"> >:D!!!</font>]]</span> 02:28, November 25, 2009 (UTC)
:::::::Should we take out the deletion tag?[[Special:Contributions/98.117.158.220|98.117.158.220]] 02:35, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

== "Skull Crusher" ==

Never heard of it... Anyone care to defend it or should it be undone? [[User:Miles.oppenheimer|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles.oppenheimer|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 22:23, June 1, 2010 (UTC)
:I'll do the honors:
#[http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=43955 Scroll down to Linkzrath's first comment- ''"...try a short-hop backwards out of range, then use a Skull Crusher in mid-air right to the kisser!"'']
#[[Ultra Violence Crew#Story|Term is used here as one of the early names for the team crew for "Ultra Violence Crew", as they abused Ganon's f-air]]
#[http://www.gamefaqs.com/wii/928518-super-smash-bros-brawl/faqs/53324 It's used here]
#[http://www.smashfan.net/melee-characters-ganondorf.php And here]
:Is this enough? I google'd it myself to verify it before adding the term to the article to not make debate...  '''<span style="font-family:Chiller;">[[User:HavocReaper48|<font color="maroon">--Havoc</font>]][[User talk:HavocReaper48|<font color="maroon">Reaper</font>]][[w:c:ssb:User:HavocReaper48/Emoticonology|'48]]</span>''' 00:39, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

Five years late, but I agree with this notion. Is it really necessary to have the Skull Crusher section on the page? This page is about the Knee Smash, and even though Ganon is a clone/semi-clone of Falcon, Skull Crusher is pretty much a completely different move from anything Falcon has. I understand the importance of the move and it is a fairly notable name among the community, but I feel it shouldn't be on this page. [[User:John3637881|John]] ([[User talk:John3637881|talk]]) 14:45, 20 July 2015 (EDT)
:Absolutely. It has nothing to do with the Knee. &ndash; [[User:Smiddle|Smiddle]] 06:11, 8 August 2015 (EDT)

== "Knee" nicknames ==

How are they noteworthy? [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 03:09, 13 September 2011 (EDT)
:The Knee of Justice is one of, if not, the most commonly used names for Falcon's fair, that I have seen used pretty much everywhere. In fact, I would say the name is more commonly used (thus more known by) than the article's name "Knee Smash". <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 03:21, 13 September 2011 (EDT)
:For some proof this is perhaps the most well known name in the Smash community, here's what a quick search turned up:

*[http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=184947 A guide to the "Knee of Justice"]
*[http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=222416&highlight=Knee+of+Justice Another guide to the "Knee of Justice"]
*[http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=178189&highlight=Knee+of+Justice A thread about a video guide to the "Knee of Justice"]
*[http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Knee-Of-Justice/285257127591 A Facebook page for the "Knee of Justice"]
*[http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Knee%20of%20Justice An urban dictionary page for the "Knee of Justice"]
*[http://browse.deviantart.com/?qh=&section=&global=1&q=knee+of+justice A quick search using the term on dArt, where you can see many deviations of it titled the "Knee of Justice"]
*[http://www.ssbwiki.com/index.php?title=Knee_of_Justice&action=history A redirect on this Wiki created back in 08 that uses this term.]

:Surely the Knee of Justice is a notable enough term to merit a mere mention in the article. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 04:24, 13 September 2011 (EDT)

::Also, similarly, I'll just coin a term for only this page. The 'heel smash' as I like to call it, is known as the 'heel of shame' in one video I watched on YouTube. Does that give you any ideas for alternate nicknames? [[User:ElliottB1|ElliottB1]] ([[User talk:ElliottB1|talk]]) 12:47, 17 June 2015 (EDT)
::this discussion is almost four years old... it doesn't really need continued. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:Nutta Butta|Nutta.]] </small>  12:50, 17 June 2015 (EDT)

== Frame Data ==
For Melee, the article doesn't specify how many frames the sweetspotted KNEE has. Brawl's has ONE sweetspot frame. Does the exact data exist? [[Special:Contributions/69.105.239.111|69.105.239.111]] 19:05, 28 April 2012 (EDT)
:Yes, and if you find it, add it in. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 19:55, 28 April 2012 (EDT)
:According to this video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUApjC5d5xU , it's hitbox frames 14-19 (out of hitbox frames 14-30).

==Move to "Knee of Justice"?==
If the Knee Smash is better known as the Knee of Justice, should we rename the article to "Knee of Justice", or just leave that name as a redirect? [[User:B2jammer|b2jammer]] ([[User talk:B2jammer|talk]]) 12:57, 16 May 2015 (EDT)
:Official name takes precedence considering it too is widely known. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 13:10, 16 May 2015 (EDT)

== Should... ==

the Skull Crusher have its own page or should it stay the way it is: gone entirely? [[User:Ganonmew|Ganonmew]] ([[User talk:Ganonmew|talk]]) 16:50, 9 September 2015 (EDT)
:Unofficial name of little notability means no page, I'd say. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 17:05, 9 September 2015 (EDT)
::Makes sense. Thanks. [[User:Ganonmew|Ganonmew]] ([[User talk:Ganonmew|talk]]) 20:22, 9 September 2015 (EDT)

== Semi-spike? ==

The move has a very low horizontal trajectory; is it low enough to qualify as a [[semi-spike]]? (Not all semi-spikes have to have a downwards component.) Just wondering as this would add to its notability. [[User:Zowayix|Zowayix]] ([[User talk:Zowayix|talk]]) 14:33, 5 December 2015 (EST)
:Maybe. You don't see such lethal semi-spikes every day. [[User:Drill Blaster Mark 2|<font color="Brown">'''Drill Blaster'''</font> <font color="Pink">'''Mark'''</font> <font color="Silver">'''2'''</font>]] ''[[User talk:Drill Blaster Mark 2|<font color="Purple">(talk)</font>]]'' 16:53, 5 December 2015 (EST)
:: Barely ,but no, it isn't. Angle is 32, whick is ''just'' above the semi-spike angle. [[Special:Contributions/98.157.202.185|98.157.202.185]] 15:07, 6 January 2016 (EST)
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